[QUOTE=randwill]
Oh, and no more con artist plots.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, bubbeleh. That’s one of the two main themes of the show: deception and daddy issues.
[QUOTE=1point618]
The reason for using her last name was that Juliet had used it on the tape to Ben. By saying it, Sawyer shows that he knows that she went, and lets everyone else know too in case they don’t know her last name. It’s quite the jab.
Also, wow. I think I’m going to have to watch that episode again. There was just so much. Ben better not die this season, I need another back story from him.
[/QUOTE]
I know…I was just complaining because I love Sawyer’s nicknames so much and we haven’t had a whole lot of them lately.
At what point did Ben steal Danielle’s baby, Alex, and raise her as his daughter?
[QUOTE=Wile E]
I hope you’re right. It seems to me that killing Locke off would be a big insult to the fans. Locke’s popularity aside, he is just about the only character who’s looking for answers about the island and that makes him most like us. Being fed all this stuff about him being special and then just knocking him off before he gets any answers is kind of a big “fuck you!” to the fans.* It would serve no purpose other than to be shocking.
*Keep in mind, I am not one of those who bitches constantly about the writers/producing fucking with us. I love the show but I don’t like killing off characters for no purpose other than to be shocking. Except for Ana Lucia, that was okay.
[/QUOTE]
I have heard a variation on this sentiment a few times since last night, and I wanted to ask: what would constitute a “purpose” for which a given character would be killed off? Because dramatically, I think Locke’s death (if he’s dead, and I hope he is, although I love the character; it will cheapen the story if he survives) was not just purposeful, it was dramatically necessary.
Look, here’s a man who has lost all of his humility. Told over and over (mostly by Ben, who we know is a liar and a manipulator) that he is “special,” that he has a communion with the island, he becomes cocky, reckless. He abandons a camp filled with people that he knows are on his side to go join a group of folks who - their protestations notwithstanding - are murderers and armed to the teeth. He places his trust in Ben, in spite of the fact that Ben is a proven skilled liar who forced Locke to have someone murdered to get his Others Club Card. He strolls into Other camp unarmed, makes dramatic demands, utterly ignores Ben’s repeated warnings that insisting to see Jacob is unwise and potentially dangerous. He bullies and beats up a former member of the Soviet Army who he already killed once, just to get his way. Any warning sign, any danger sign, he blows past without a pause. Ben’s obvious increasing anger and fear of Locke go unnoticed by the latter. Locke has been so thoroughly convinced that he is “special,” and therefore untouchable, that he takes risks that a reasonable person simply would not take.
When you walk up to a man like Ben on his own turf and bully him, then follow him out in the woods alone, ignoring his warnings and protestations, then call him pathetic and insane, you are very nearly asking to end up where Locke ended up.
The purpose his death serves, I think, is to establish (or to continue demonstrating) that in this world, actions have consequences, that you can’t walk away from the support of one society and then browbeat your way into another without accepting that it might not work. Locke decided that he was so special that he could demand what he wanted without working with anyone else. What’s it Jack always says? Live together, die alone? Well, Locke made his choice.
Odd, I never got the impression that Locke was killed. Ben shot him and he was bleeding, but then threatened to shoot him again if Locke didn’t tell him what Jacob said. Locke told him, but Ben misunderstood and approached, ready to finish the job. Locke stated again what Jacob said.
Locke obviously was scared of Ben shooting him again. If he was dying or on his way out, why would he tell Ben anything other than a big “fuck you!”?
I got the impression that Locke was injured but not dying. Michael and Sawyer have survived gunshot wounds. I’m sure Locke will, too.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
When you walk up to a man like Ben on his own turf and bully him, then follow him out in the woods alone, ignoring his warnings and protestations, then call him pathetic and insane, you are very nearly asking to end up where Locke ended up.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I say when you start calling Ben out as a liar and telling him you’ll expose him to his people as a fraud:
-
Don’t fucking follow him so he can “show you” anything.
-
Get his gun. In fact, get his gun way earlier than that.
-
See 1.
-
Maybe think about binding his hands somehow?
-
Don’t take your eyes off of the prisoner.
-
See 2.
-
Dummy.
It’s almost as if Locke was trying to get himself killed (although I agree he might survive in spite of the stupid move).
[QUOTE=vivalostwages]
At what point did Ben steal Danielle’s baby, Alex, and raise her as his daughter?
[/QUOTE]
I was actually thinking about this last night. Now, I can’t see Ben killing Annie or being a party to her death in the purge–not how his character’s set up. (Yeah, yeah, I know, but bear with me…) His dad, who was a jerk to him his entire life and flat-out told Ben he was responsible for his mother’s death? Sure thing. The Dharma scientists? Maybe. But Annie, the one person who showed him any real measure of affection or friendship during his childhood?
The fact that he keeps the doll as a reminder of her emphasizes that, and I think it would be a really poignant moment–Damon, Carlton, are you guys reading?–if Ben and Annie actually got together before the purge, and had a child, which resulted in the child’s and Annie’s death. It could explain his desire to abduct Alex–to have a living child of his own–and possibly his hatred of the Dharma scientists who failed to save her.
I also just want to ask here: we’re two episodes away from the end of Season 3, and the entire season there hasn’t been one single trace of Bernard or Rose. Where have those two gone?
[QUOTE=Kythereia]
I also just want to ask here: we’re two episodes away from the end of Season 3, and the entire season there hasn’t been one single trace of Bernard or Rose. Where have those two gone?
[/QUOTE]
This question was asked on the podcast. The producers said the actors weren’t extras or guests, but they weren’t part of the regular cast. They don’t want to schlepp them back to Hawaii just for a walk-on. OTOH, they’re not dead. Which is to say, probably about what you expected.
[QUOTE=Kythereia]
I also just want to ask here: we’re two episodes away from the end of Season 3, and the entire season there hasn’t been one single trace of Bernard or Rose. Where have those two gone?
[/QUOTE]
They appear in at least one of the remaining two episodes this season.
np
Storyteller - your post above (re Locke) was just great. I agree completely.
[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
I’ve got it freeze framed on that one second shot of Jacob. I can’t tell anything. Heavily shadowed, wearing a purplish shirt, kinda looked like Dennis Hopper.
[/QUOTE]
I must have blinked, because I never saw anything.
A couple of things. The guy who hired Ben’s father was named Goodspeed. I don’t think he’s related to Goodwin since they spell and pronounce their names differently.
Short of mystical Island intervention, Locke should be dead (so should Naomi for that matter). Michael, Sawyer and Sayid suffered grazing wounds to an extremity. Gunshot wounds to the abdomin and sucking chest wounds tend to get infected and require immediate hospital care.
[QUOTE=RikWriter]
Oh, and also, Ben is an incredible hypocrite. “We don’t kill people.” Yeah, except for dozens of Dharma employees, including his own father.
[/QUOTE]
Ben frequently lies.
Why did Ben hear the whispers in the jungle before Richard appeared? What are they?
I thought the black dust in the ground was the smoke monster, with Jacob as its “spirit”. Ben really didn’t want Locke to examine it too closely.
Did we see the DeGroots in this episode? I thought we were going to.
-FrL-
[QUOTE=Kythereia]
The fact that he keeps the doll as a reminder of her emphasizes that, and I think it would be a really poignant moment–Damon, Carlton, are you guys reading?–if Ben and Annie actually got together before the purge, and had a child, which resulted in the child’s and Annie’s death. It could explain his desire to abduct Alex–to have a living child of his own–and possibly his hatred of the Dharma scientists who failed to save her.
[/QUOTE]
I like this theory. It would also explain perhaps why he’s so obsessed with solving this all-pregnant-women-die on the island dilemma. Even though in last week’s episode Richard seemed to indicate that this was maybe something Ben’s been wasting his time on, or been sidetracked by.
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan]
Why did Ben hear the whispers in the jungle before Richard appeared? What are they?
[/QUOTE]
At this point we have got to have had enough occurrences of “The Voices” to have some theories.
So…anyone?
-Joe
[QUOTE=Merijeek]
At this point we have got to have had enough occurrences of “The Voices” to have some theories.
So…anyone?
-Joe
[/QUOTE]
Since early on, I’ve been thinking there’s remote-viewing plus teleportation going on.
The remote-viewers can be heard as whispers. (In recordings of one second season episode, one of the whisperers can be heard to say “Why is Sayid kissing Shannon?”) Also the Others’ detailed knowledge of losties’ lives could be explained through remote viewing.
And Others’ popping up out of nowhere, and Cindi getting kidnapped right under everyone’s noses, can be explained via teleportation.
But we’ve been with the Others for a while and haven’t seen anything like these happening. So I am beginning to doubt.
-FrL-
[QUOTE=Frylock]
Since early on, I’ve been thinking there’s remote-viewing plus teleportation going on.
The remote-viewers can be heard as whispers. (In recordings of one second season episode, one of the whisperers can be heard to say “Why is Sayid kissing Shannon?”) Also the Others’ detailed knowledge of losties’ lives could be explained through remote viewing.
And Others’ popping up out of nowhere, and Cindi getting kidnapped right under everyone’s noses, can be explained via teleportation.
But we’ve been with the Others for a while and haven’t seen anything like these happening. So I am beginning to doubt.
-FrL-
[/QUOTE]
The voices are ghosts, just like Jacob except not as powerful. The Smoke Monster is a collective being composed of the trapped spirits of the evil…perhaps the crew of the slave ship. The same thing about the island that makes some people heal and some people ressurrect also traps the spirits of some people on the island after death.
[QUOTE=Frylock]
And Others’ popping up out of nowhere, and Cindi getting kidnapped right under everyone’s noses, can be explained via teleportation.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think so on this one. If that was the case, there would be no defense against them. There would be no need to snatch people in the middle of the night. Just grab them as fast as your teleporter can recharge.
The rest would make sense, but The Voices seem to happen only in very particular circumstances. It’s not like someone is strolling along and hears them. I think picking up on them is definitely related to “specialness”.
-Joe
Speculation about Richard not aging – couldn’t it be something as simple as the producers not being able to find an actor who looked like young Richard, and just changing his hair length and facial hair? I’ve known people (especially non-smokers) who didn’t noticeably age much in 15-20 years.
Any clues on how long it had been since the Dharma people were gassed? Bodies in an open pit in a moist climate, how decomposed would they get?
And why weren’t they buried? Why leave them in an open pit?