Well, that kills all interest, right there.
Question: do you all think that Christopher Tolkien is correct in his assumptions and claims re ME and what JRRT would have written? Seems to me that JRR had more humor and earthiness about him-no?
Yes, all the Stewards are Numenoreans. I believe Mithrandir even comments that their ancestors runs more nearly true in him (and Denethor) than it did in Boromir, which is why I speculate he may have shared Aragorn’s longer-than-average life-span and ability to die at will.
Ithilien. I don’t know about the kids. And, incidentally, Faramir did become Steward–just not RULING Steward. He’d have been Aragorn’s chief deputy, I 'spose, in addition to Prince of Ithilien. Which I don’t imagine bothered him as much as it would have his father. I always had the impression that he gave up the rulership to Aragorn so gracefully because he didn’t want to be Ruling Steward in the first place.
The Elvenking is Thranduil, father to Legolas. I’ve often wondered if Legolas was at the Battle of Five Armies.
So, was Thranduil just a lesser elf who was also a king? He wasn’t like Galadriel or even Mr Galadriel? or Elrond?
so the woodland elves were of two sorts: lothlorien and the ones that got their wine from Dale?
Gah-now I’ll have to reread the Hobbit. I can’t–I have too much to do.
You won’t find too much on elves in the Hobbit you don’t know now; the ElvenKing isn’t even named therein.
The Woodland elves are, I believe, Dark Elves–that is, neither they nor their ancestors ever went over the sea (though they still may have the urge to, an urge they cannot ignore forever) to the Undying Lands. They did not see the light of the Two Trees and never met Valar or Maiar (except Gandalf and the like) in person. Though still a step above men, they’re not nearly as wise or formidable as the likes of Galadriel or Celeborn.
I’d put the difference like this. An ordinary Man will quail at the sight of a ghost such as the Army of the Dead; Legolas will raise one eyebrow and say, “Not impressed. Bring it on.” Legolas, though, still quails at the sight of a Nazgul, but Glorfindel’s reaction will be “Well, this will be a fight, but you’re going to lose and it’s going to be very painful for you.”
That is perfectly understandable. Thank you!
I’ve seen somewhere some speculation on this, concluding with the guess that he probably wasn’t, simply to keep from risking the King and his son in the same battle. There is a reference somewhere, can’t remember where, that definitely establishes that Gimli wasn’t, though he was certainly alive at the time. (Presumably he lived over Blue Mountains way anyway, Eryd Luin West of the Shire - not with Dain of the Iron Hills.)
The Mirkwood Elves are Dark Elves, but I believe Thranduil was Sindarin. (Sindarin Elves being those who intended to go to Valinor, but never actually made it. More powerful than the Dark Elves, b ut not as awesome as the Light.) Unfortunately, my books are all boxed up at the moment so I can’t go check where I might have read it.
Wikipedia does back me up: “… Thranduil was a Sindarin Elf who had traveled eastward from Lindon before the building of Barad-dûr, and king of the Silvan Elves in the northern part of Mirkwood …”
Of course, none of that makes much difference as far as Legolas in concerned since he was only half-Sindar.
However, I’d be willing to bet that Legolas WILL be at the battle if Peter Jackson ever manages to film The Hobbit.
OK, maybe the bb will cooperate now…
I have a question re Gandalf and Thorin meeting. Where exactly was Thorin’s home? Gandalf says that Bree is on the way to it, but I don’t see it that way in my mind. Did Bilbo go a different way into foreign lands than Frodo?
I amend my desire: I want a map of the famaliar bits of ME, not the whole deal…
Thorin’s home was in the Blue Mountains (Ered Luin) which are west of the Shire and just south of the Grey Havens. If you look at your LotR maps, follow the western coastline north to the Gulf of Lune, then look east.
Mebbe. Or mebbe we’ll catch a glimpse of him after Thorin & Co. are captured by the Elves. For that matter, I hope we’d see young Estel (Aragorn) earlier, when the Dwarves and their burglar are resting up at Rivendell.
re Eldarion: I thought showing him in Arwen’s vision was a nice touch in the movie. The kid even looked like he could have been Liv & Viggo’s offspring.
In re the forest elves, I think that Legolas’ father was one of the elves of Doriath (or a descendant of them), meaning that he was in origin a Dark Elf (didn’t follow Orome into the West), but lived under the enlightened reign of Melian the Maia and Thingol, and therefore received a bit of the reflected glory of the West.
Thranduil was a Sindarin Elf living ruling the mostly silven elves of Greenwood. His father, Oropher, was an elf of Doriath. Oropher died in the last alliance.
Jim
For what it’s worth, in the last scene the girl Sean scoops up is is daughter, and the infant Sarah is holding is her son. I thought that was kind of cool.
Oh, I LOVED Eowyn in the books and wondered why the heck Aragorn didn’t go for her. They seemed like a really perfect match.
One of my own personal small quibbles with the movie – a sort of whiney “Aw maaaaaan, I was looking forward to this!” in Return of the King – is where she does not have the beautifully vicious exchange with the Witch-King. I loved the animated Return of the King when I was a little girl (stop looking at me that way! it was the eighties and I was young! 
) and I memorized that exchange because Eowyn was The Shit. PJ hacked it to pieces. Still, awesome in both.
I know one person who hated that casting. 
He always thought… oh, what’s his name, the guy who played Qui-Gon. Liam Neeson, that’s the one. My buddy is of the opinion that Viggo was too pretty (!) and too damn grubby and scraggly. My protestation of “Pretty for the LADIES! People who aren’t me need a reason to see this movie!” was met with “They’ve got a pretty elf. And Orlando Bloom is too femme. Elves need to kick more ass.” My protestation of “He’s scraggly because he’s been living in the woods! You wouldn’t look that good!” was met with "FANTASY. :mad: " No pleasing some people.
glances around Well, we’re online, I can get away with saying I’m an online gamer. I played on a text-based game for a while with a character in Gondor. Now, when I was a little kid, I hated Boromir. What a bastard! Obviously the Ring belonged to Frodo; was he not paying attention? He was just another grownup who thought he knew what was best for everyone.
After I’d done that gaming around Gondor, though, I got a deeper perspective. His people are at war. They’re looking for something, anything to give them an edge. Gondorians are pretty patriotic – they have the bravest and strongest warriors, the wisest scholars, if you ask them. They’re also out there on the front lines. People are dying every day because of Sauron’s power. Using it against him? A loathsome prospect, but turning evil against itself does have a sort of poetry, no?
Just not this poetry. No, Boromir was wrong, and in the end he was corrupted, but he had a point nevertheless.
I’ll also do Arwen: she never came across to me in the books at all, so I never really understood what Aragorn wanted with her. And Liv Tyler is very pretty and fills out that dress well enough but Lord help me she is not the Arwen in my head. She’s very nice, but she seems… I remember vaguely gesticulating at the screen and saying at last “She should be more pointy!” Her features are very very soft, and I always saw Arwen’s as more… chiseled? Defined? I don’t know. Somehow she just doesn’t work well for me.
I still cry when her father makes it clear to her that no matter what, eventually he is going to die and she is not and she is going to be completely alone. She is going to have to watch this man in his prime get old and weak and weary and she’s still going to be the same beautiful and timeless creature, unable to share real humanity with him. Augh.
I swear, it’s just the allergies making my eyes water…
This was my reaction exactly, but to another hacked-to-pieces scene: the confrontation between Gandalf and the WK after Grond busts open the gates of Minas Tirith. Favorite scene in the entire book…missing completely in the movie. Dammit.
Not to mention that the great Denethor pyre scene was also hacked to pieces. (And there’s also those little changes, like - Frodo was supposed to be beaten bloody and naked when Sam found him in the tower…)
Well, at least our favorite scenes are still there in the book!
So I Google “Moucha”
expecting to see somethiong like this,
and what I get as the first image is this. (warning! safe for work but amusingly shocking). :eek:
I think the artist’s name is Mucha not Moucha, but I think I’ve probably been whooshed.
Yup, Denethor was ruined throughout, and this was just the final piece.
Also yup. 