Except that the ring caused Isildur’s death, did it not? And right smartly, IIRC.
I remembered how broken Frodo had been by the experience, and I was disappointed in the theatrical release’s treatment of his going west. I thought they made it look like a cool vacation with the elves, instead of explaining that Frodo was irreparably damaged and would surely die otherwise.
I don’t think its clear that the Dwarves had ever been in the Undying Lands – they awoke deep in the earth, “far apart from one another, deep underground, until the time came for their awakening.” Presumably in Middle Earth. Unless you’re counting Aule’s workshop.
I was counting Aule’s workshop.
The biggest disapointment for me was the leaving out of the shriving or scouring or upheavel or whatever it’s called of the Shire. It forced the Hobbits to look inside themselves and find their courage–also, Merry and Pippin were highly esteemed in the Shire (after the upheaval at least). It was a collective coming of age for the Shire folk. But, we’ll never know about that-thanks, PJ. (really, my only major complaint with the films). The entire story arc changes with that gone.
Am done with TT. Skipped through the Ents scenes (I loved the Ents in the books, but they really slow down the pace), watched all of Helm’s Deep and Faramir with Frodo/Gollum etc. Will watch ROTK later today.
Isildur was killed and all, but could he have qualified to go to the Undying Lands? I doubt it because he took the ring for power. One could argue that Gollum merely possessed the ring for ownership’s sake-he did not realize its potential or its context. So, I’d argue that if he hadn’t fallen into the fires of Mt Doom, then he might have gone to the UL. (I never really thought that Isildur should go there, I had a minor issue with skald’s reason for Frodo going.)
Not much to say about TT. I thought there were shieldmaidens of Rohan, though–why didn’t they get to fight?
I do not recall where, but somewhere I got the impression that the statue was a memorial to Gilraen, Aragorn’s mother.
However, the Ring inscription actually is:
Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul
Ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
which was mishandled when the BBC did their excellent radio production back in about 1981, as “agh” should be unstressed so that this scans properly. It translates as: “One Ring to rule them all, one Ring to find them; One Ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them”, which is two lines from the longer poem that Gandalf recites to Frodo in Hobbiton. Only in Rivendell does he actually repeat the words in the Black Speech as shown above, to the general horror of the Elves.
Conceptual artist Alan Lee, quoted in The Art of The Lord of the Rings by Gary Russell:
In his original concept sketch, the figure clearly has pointy elf ears. So in absence of any evidence to the contrary, I hereby decree that the statue is of Celebrimbor, legendary elven smith of Eregion, and he is depicted holding the broken sword while thinking: “Look at this crap. Dwarves really can’t do anything right.”
Alan Lee also has published a sketchbook of his work from **The Lord of the Rings ** movies, in which he may have more to say about the figure. I don’t own that book though. I’m not obsessive about this stuff.
I missed the “Scouring of the Shire” too. But I expected PJ to leave it out or gloss over it.
As far as Isildur heading to the Undying Lands: The Hobbits went for service in destroying the Ring and showing bravery beyond measure or at least in Bilbo’s case willpower beyond any other mortal or elf. They had Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf to vouch for them and Frodo has Arwen’s gift. Isildur had none of these pleas and failed to dispose of the ring when he had the chance. Additionally, this was shortly after Ar-Phazon attempted the assault on the Undying Lands and I doubt the Valar were feeling too good about Númenorians at that point. 
If he had actually taken Elrond’s strong advice, perhaps he would have been welcome, but I still doubt it. Different rules for humans and Hobbits apparently.
As to the shieldmaidens: Rohan had them in their history, but none officially travels with the riders to the Pelennor Fields. You will probably remember that even Éowyn rode in disguise as Dernhelm.
Jim
Yes, but if you have shield maidens in your past, why not show the women fighting now? It seems a disconnect to me.
I’m watching ROTK now.
I didn’t realize that Isildur’s sword was orignally made by dwarves. I assumed it was an Elvish blade. The statue can be anyone you want it to be, except Aragorn’s mother. She has a statue, which Aragorn is shown clearing off in the FOR. The two DO look alike, but I put that down to the style of sculpture.
Stupidity that didn’t need to be in the films: Legolas not geting drunk in the drinking contest. IMS, the woodland elves drank quite a bit and got drunk as well.
I am STILL confused (from the films) re Arwen’s role. In the books, she doesn’t do a whole lot (and just what does the Evening Star have to do, anyways?). I don’t get the whole “I’m losing my elvishness, my hands are cold”. (I love her gown, though). And the whole nonsense about her fate being tied to the Ring.
I love the actor’s interp of Faramir. Not bad looking, either. Still like the beacon scene. And Pippin’s Lament.
WhatExit–what do you mean about Elrond’s advice? Who? Isildur or Frodo?
JRRT addresses aspects of the choice of Frodo as Ring-bearer in letter 181. Frodo is in a situation where “a person of greater native power could probably never have resisted the Ring’s lure to power so long; a person of less power could not hope to resist it in the final decision.” Was Frodo unique? He doesn’t say.
Letter 246 Center for the American Idea goes into the reasons Frodo went to the Undying Lands.
Bilbo went for two reasons: because Frodo would not be truly happy without him, and because he “bore still the mark of the Ring that needed to be finally erased: a trace of pride and personal possessiveness.” The letter says nothing about Sam, but I guess his case was similar to Bilbo’s.
Aha-so in the books, Arwen really does become mortal? I never realized that.
I know it doesn’t pan out like this in the books, but I feel like Aragorn is leanring (like an apprentice) from Theoden on how to be kingly. (not that he isnt inherently, but I mean the politics of it all etc.)
Elrond advised Isildur to immediately toss the Ring into Mt Doom. Isildur (probably with the Ring already working on him) decided to keep it as a wergild for his Dad, Elendil.
Jim
It’s debateable, actually. She says that she chooses, as Luthien did, to be counted among mortals, but it’s not at all clear (to me, at least) that that choice was hers to make. Elrond and his brother Elros were given that choice, but Elros’ sons resented their father’s choice (and hence presumably could not themselves choose), so I don’t see any reason to suppose that Elrond’s children had the choice, either. And while Arwen does eventually die, she dies of grief, which is one of the ways in which Elves can die (but which humans generally can’t).
No, it is mentioned that Elrond’s kids also had the choice. I will have to search for the note or the passage unless someone else finds it.
Jim
Great responses, all. All of them help me to understand a bit more.
Some commentary:
The whole catapult thing. The rate and way the orcs do it, you’d think that the whole city would fall down in short order.
and why do see no farms of evidence of settlements between Osgiliath and Gondor? Seems a bit strange to me.
The Wall of Gondor were made of extremely tough stone, as tough as the tower of Orthanc. Only the outermost wall, that I do not recall if the movie showed was easily susceptible to what the Orcs could do.
There should have been farmlands, an oversight by PJ is my guess. Perhaps PJ felt the fields were already burnt and destroyed in battles not seen?
Jim
Hehe, Aragorn served under Theodens father.
Why does the Witch King of Angmar go for Theoden? Is there an historic reason for it?
At the time, Theoden was leading his troops into battle and it looked like none could stop him. So the Witch King tactically knew to kill the leader and halt the charge. He was assured that “No Man would slay him”.
And he was right! 