This also scores TRIPLE points (that’s right, folks…60 POINTS!) when you’re married and the wife asks you. It also helps to have liquid courage which lubes the mind to say, “Weeeeeeelll…OK. Just one dance.”
Sorry to have made the assumption. Your English is pretty much flawless. I shouldn’t have assumed you to be a native speaker. No one fromm, say, New Jersey, spells and puctuates quite that well.
Question? I was born in Iowa, my family is from Kansas, but we identify ourselves as culturally Swedish. It’s like the fjords are in our blood. But I have no idea what those cute and garishly painted wooden horses are called. You know the ones I mean? Where the tail is just painted on? And it’s more symbolic of a horse than anatomically correct like a real horse?
Wow, quite different. We’re required to be in school more or less from age 5 to 18. “Gymnasium” to us is a room filled with ropes, soccer balls, kid-sweat, and a “teacher” who is more muscles than brains. (Some of the teachers were good, I must say.) “Gym” is the name of the class that took place in that room. It included such cardiovascular exercise as throwing stuff at the weaker kids who were picked last.
Yeah, bitterness ensued.
But back to the thread – You’ve had sucky past relationships. Are you doing anything to seek out any newer ones? I’m trying out stuff, but it’s slow going.
You’re doing great. . . I applaud your efforts! 
Thank you very much.
Oooh, ow. How do I say this…? We don’t have fjords. That’s Norway.
These? That’s a dalahäst, which means basically “horse from Dalarna”. Dalarna is a province in Sweden.
Did I say that? Well, never mind, it’s kinda partially true anyway.
Sort of. I’m doing what I can to learn to overcome my natural social handicaps. I was on a trainhopping tour a few weeks ago, and made sure to make contact with strangers, simply to prove to myself that I could. And I could. And enjoyed it.
I have a bunch of problems, though. For one, I know women get hit on all the time, which makes me feel like an idiot for trying. Apparently normal men can ignore this and go up to a woman and hit on her even though she knows from the first syllable he utters what he is really asking, whatever he’s saying. Well, I can’t. The whole process - looking for verb here - repels me. So that’s out unless I have some serious brain surgery that’s currently beyond human ability.
So I figured I’d work out a way to meet people and get to know them instead. I did enroll in a film studies course at the university (Masterstroke! Meet women who like film!) but couldn’t stay, unfortunately. My main hobby is probably the most straight-male-dominated one in the universe, apart from… no, I think we’ve got them all beat. Including wifebeating, penis comparing, and gaybashing. My job doesn’t exactly open up the social opportunities.
And don’t even get me started on the gay scene. I used to wonder why women complained about getting hit on all the time, it seemed great to me. Ten minutes as a gay man, and then I got it. I’m ashamed of my fellow Y-chromosome carriers.
Hey!!!
That’s them! Thanks!
I have one. Never knew what to call it.
This is interesting. Can you tell me more?
One thing I’ve been hearing about is that the first rule of hitting on women is don’t creep them out. Obviously, you want your advances to be more welcome than annoying or skeevy.
Tell me that’s not an advanced art form.
Basically, while women are evil, men are idiots. Who think with their testicles. I started a thread about it… Here it is. If what you’re looking for is someone whose idea of a conversation opener is “See you at place X in fifteen minutes if you want a blowjob”, you’re golden. If you’re looking for something a bit more involved than that or even, Heaven forbid, have emotions beyond “I want to fuck. Now.” it’s going to be harder. I should have figured that a sexually defined subculture consisting entirely of men would be like that, but I didn’t.
I know there are plenty of gay guys who don’t fit the description above, but they’re a lot harder to find, and you have to wade through the other lifeforms to get to the humans.
I need to read that thread, which seems to start off interesting. But I need to do some other important stuff, which I’m putting off by looking at the Dope. Procrastination sucks.
However, the stuff I quoted is really interesting. I understand that sexuality is not totally straight nor totally gay, and that we all live somewhere on the continuum. For myself, the gay bit occupies about 0.0000001% of my being. I’m just about 100% straight.
I’ve sometimes remarked to lonely, straight males that we should just turn gay, it would make life so much easier. Guys know what guys like, and who the fuck can figure out women, right? “If we were gay, we could give each other blow jobs.” A notion born more out of dumb logic than education.
And I’ve often speculated that bisexuals have it twice as easy (or half as hard) as those of us who are programmed to like just one gender. Face it, you bis have twice as many prospects as us unisexuals. Go, you!
It never occurred to me that you also have twice as many issues. Figuring out women is a lifelong exercise in near futility. Figuring out men must be just as hard. I can’t imagine bearing the burdan of trying to do both, and keeping the knowledge in properly seperated buckets.
Wow. I never thought about how hard that must be. Good luck and hugs and all that.
Maybe consider an “Ask the frustrated bisexual” thread in MPSIMS? Hey, you might get twice the responses!
No, not exactly.
My point was more that when dealing with other “action=success” type endeavors in life, there is a much greater, more concrete, and linear correlation between action and return on that action, than the endeavor of seeking love and/or a life-partner. And more of a “guaranteed” one so to speak. Also, more options for use of skill or success one acquires.
Same with people’s career paths. A good education (or tech/trade school) coupled with a good work ethic has a clear, concrete return of putting a person in a decent career. Even if a person doesn’t start off in a corner office, the skills and education are in place and with the application of elbow grease you’re still on the path.
The search for love doesn’t work that way, it’s intangible, tenuous and usually your heart is in the hands of someone else while THEY decide whether or not you’ll “do”.
As you said, you can “work” on your social skills and improve your chances of meeting potentials. That’s about where “work=success” ends though. You can lead a horse to water and all that.
Meeting and even attracting men hasn’t ever been my problem, it’s in finding “the one” (not that I believe that there is only One “the one”, just simplifying), that I fail miserably at love, except for the one that got away (three years later I’m still slowly recovering).
There are always, (even in my elderly decrepit hideous grandmotherly state), a few men around who make it clear that they’d like to be more than just friends or coworkers. But, and this is another super frustrating thing about “looking for love”, the ones that chase after me are rarely my type (with the exception of the aforementioned “one who got away” :)).
To be fair though, part of my problem is living in a state where the male mentality and behaviour regarding lifestyle, mental/spiritual/physical attitudes, and marriage is extremely far from my own. So my pool of potential mates, one with whom I could mesh well and love as a life partner, is very tiny.
Oh, BTW girls, it is a HUGE myth that the ratio of men to women up here is 10-1, that may have been true during the early pipeline days but not so today, nor for the past 20 years or so. Nowadays, according to the Anchorage Indicator (a census like publication) it’s 1.05-1.
And besides that, we Alaskan girls have a saying (a very true one).
“The odds may be good, but the goods are VERY odd”. 
Enlighten me. I know nothing about Alaskan marriage rites.
I would prefer a guy who dances or at least tries than one who turns his nose up and acts as if it’s “lame” merely because he’s afraid.
bolding mine.
As a dance teacher I have to strenuously disagree. I teach at a university, and until recently was a dance instructor at a local nightclub, community schools, and a senior center (don’t laugh, those seniors danced circles around me, must be all that rest from being retired! :D). Also until 2004 I captained a dance team that performed at various charities for about 6 years.
No, no they **don’t **notice. If they’re really good dancers they’re either busy showing off and enjoying their prowess, or pushing themselves to do better to bother looking at anyone else, let alone making fun of them. If they aren’t great dancers, they’re too busy trying to learn and not mess up too much to look at anyone else.
In 10 years of teaching dance classes at a variety of venues, the ONLY people I’ve ever seen make fun of other dancers was a small (4-5 women) group of women who were, though in their 30s, childishly snooty to anyone not in their imagined “league” of dancers.
And they were really very mediocre dancers.
<----holds hand up.
Guilty. (where’s the shamedfaced smiley?)
But you know what I don’t get? I’m 48 and came of age in the 70s. When I was young and dating, even in the wilds of hunting/snowmobiling/fishing crazy Anchorage there was a dance club on nearly every corner (okay, maybe 20 of them?).
They were packed on at LEAST the weekend nights, but summers? The dancing started on Thursday nights and ran through late Sunday, with a few naps in between. We just suffered through the work week to get to the next dance weekend. And the men were as plentiful and as enthusiastic as the women on the dance floor. For the generation before mine, learning to dance and going out to dance was considered a normal and desirable social skill for both sexes.
When and why did this sudden male aversion to dancing begin?
My observation was about white guys. Anybody could dance back in hippy days, but when disco came along, we were so out-classed by the Black and Puerto Rican guys that we gave up, concentrated on our careers, and waited for the the ticking of the white women’s biological clocks to drown out the boogie.
Explain the importance of some people’s desperate addiction to NASCAR, the Anchoragite’s fishing/hunting/snowmobiling fanaticism, GOLFING for crying out loud.
It is fun, it is natural (for many of us), it is sensual, with the right partner there is a “click” that is difficult to describe, one which can transcend mere dancing and set a t least part of the “IT factor” for the relationship.
Even for those who aren’t as in love with dancing as my former boyfriend and I were. As other women have attempted to explain, it illustrates something deeper and more meaningful about who a man IS than his ability (or lack thereof) on the dance floor. It shows what he is LIKE. Men who have that devil-may-care joie de vivre attitude regarding dancing are attractive to us. Their comfort in their own skin, their sense of fun, adventure, SPIRIT OF WILLINGNESS, and the ridiculous…as I said, it goes beyond “mere” dancing.
I know that others have beat this horse to death already but count me in as one who doesn’t believe that a person “can’t learn”. I’ve taught Downs Syndrome people in my classes to dance. Did they know the steps? No. Were they on the beat? Not really. So??? They danced. What is the definition of “dancing”? From your posts, it seems you believe you must prove some high level of performance or something.
Also, you don’t say if you mean club dancing, or patterned type dancing such as cha-cha. I don’t think you’re lying, and the following is NOT an attempt to get you to dance, but I think you’re mistaken. A person doesn’t have to be great at ballet, rock free-style, jazz, etc. to “dance”.
And besides, ANYONE can do the merengue.
I am very VERY bad at math. Laughably so. I hate it, trying to learn the more advanced types has brought me to tears many many times. But I can still balance my checkbook, add, subtract and do simple equations (frequently incorrectly and then I need help). It ain’t trig, but it’s still math.
Heh, not WEDDING attitudes, attitudes about being married. IME as an Alaskan girl since 1970, a large number of Alaskan men are quite amenable to marriage. It gives them double the income with which to buy aforementioned snowmobiles, boats, and outdoor toys. In which they then spend most of their non-work time playing and goofing off and NOT with you, (unless you also want to freeze your booty off taking weekend snowmobiling trips, or being stuck on the Kenai in a dinky fishing boat, with no bathroom, for hours at a time). Been there, done that, NOT my idea of even a mediocre time. In fact that’s my idea of hell on earth.
That part of my post was made in complete understanding that I am the problem in that part of the equation. I’m an oddball Alaskan, despite nearly 40 years here, and that is my issue not theirs.
I know you’re halfway teasing, but really, at least here, there were a reasonable number of places to dance, and men to fill them clear up until the late 80s. Then I was in a long term relationship, which included having a little “surprise” baby, and during the time I wasn’t out in the clubs it dwindled quite a bit. I met my former boyfriend at a dance class in '94 and we were good friends for the first couple of years and then dated up until 2004. Somewhere around 2002 is when I noticed the dancing activity dying down and this “oh dancing is so lame” attitude (among white men) being voiced.
BTW, HE taught ME to dance, in a manner of speaking. I’d been dancing jazz, modern, ballet, and gymnastic dance up to that point, and had never done couples dancing other than some disco and free-style rock back in the 70s. He definitely won my heart starting with the cha-cha!
Oh yes, and he’s white, red-haired and overweight. And he was very very good at it. Errr dancing that is!
PS…I’ve had a number of hispanic and black people in my classes who have had quite a bit of difficulty “getting it”. Not ALL black and Hispanic folks have a natural talent for dancing or natural rhythm.
One thing I think you need to keep in mind is, those people who feed you the “just happens” line don’t necessarily believe that. They don’t necessarily believe any of those cliched chestnuts they’re throwing at you. They’re simply saying something for the sake of saying something. We have in our culture certain unstated rules, among which is the idea that when confronted with someone who is having a problem, you have to say something which can be construed as comforting or helpful, even if what you say really isn’t comforting or helpful. That way the person in question can pat himself on the back and congratulate himself for having done the thing he’s ‘supposed to do.’ He’s not really talking to you to be helpful; he’s actually talking at you in order to fulfill his obligation. It’s much more about form than content. That doesn’t make the words any less frustrating (or true, for that matter), but it is often the reality behind such expressions.
OK, let’s do this a little bit more.
None of these are activities the rejection of which is socially accepted as an unacceptable shortcoming in a potential boyfriend.
No, just be able to move in relation to music.
I have consistently been talking about club dancing, free-form dancing, or whatever you wish to call it. As I said, I’m able to learn mechanical movements, so dances that have actual fixed patterns are not beyond me.
The point is, I get that many people enjoy dancing (I do so myself on occasion). I get that many people would find it annoying, frustrating, boring or unpleasant to have a partner who doesn’t enjoy dancing. What I do not get is the huge, generally accepted importance attached to this relatively pointless activity. Someone in this very thread made a post that made it abundantly clear that they saw a clear correlation between not dancing and being perpetually single, and this isn’t even considered strange. No-one would say that about NASCAR. Ever. And rightly so.
They (well, the fishing/hunting/snowmachining ones are) are a potential for rejecting a possible Girl friend where I come from. And you know what? I couldn’t care less. I HATE snowmachining. I hate fishing with the burning fury of a thousand suns. It does not bother me in the teensiest bit that a man might decide not to date me because I don’t share his “mandatory to be an Alaskan” dating requirements.
My point was, why does it bother you?
Okay, then you certainly CAN “dance”.
The reason behind the general love of dancing is outlined nicely by several other posters in the IMHO thread.
I don’t think that there really IS some, as you say “huge, generally accepted importance” attached to dancing. There are a lot of people who love it a great deal (me, me me!! :)) and for whom being partnered with someone who felt as you do about it would be a deal breaker.
My point regarding NASCAR etc is that it is no different than any other beloved activity that a person might have. If a person A genuinely can’t stand activity X, but person B not only loves it, but truly needs to be able to share it with their partner, then Person A and Person B likely aren’t the best match. From your posts, you seem to see this as some sort of slam against people who don’t like dancing.
To say that dancing gives one an edge up in certain dating situations is NOT to somehow then state that non-dancers must then be inept socially. Just that a non-dancer is not likely to be as successful in that particular arena.
I think I remember that post, or a similar one, and I seem to remember it as meaning more along the lines of “if you dance, you have a much better chance of getting laid more quickly” (to paraphrase). I certainly don’t agree with any premise of “if you don’t dance you will be single forever” and I don’t believe that anyone in this thread thinks that either.
But I’ll be happy to be proved wrong if you have that post handy. Or, if that poster truly did say that, I don’t agree, and further I doubt that it is true or that “society” feels that way either.
This whole ‘I don’t believe you “can’t learn”’ cliche being run around these boards, IMO, is the exact equivilent of telling a clinically depressed person to “just get over it”. If the guy can’t dance, he can’t fucking dance. Leave him be in peace. Yes, there are people who say “I can’t learn”, and really can and are being stubborn about it. But it’s quite obvious that Price Guy can’t figure out the club dancing, and has tried several times, with practice and still fails at it. Telling him to just do it anyway is a grave insult to him as it would be to a depressed person to just “pick themselves up by the bootstraps” or whatever.