Love: It will "just happen"

The BBQ Pit
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First off, he asked.

And then (in our posts above) he replied politely to my response to him, which did include my post above.

Regarding your “snap out of it” analogy. Nowhere did my post suggest that someone should “snap out of it” educationally speaking.

Your “telling a depressed person to snap out of it” analogy doesn’t really fit that well. Unless you’re assuming that telling them to snap out of it includes “snap out of it with no drugs or counseling and do it right now”. Stating that one doesn’t believe someone "can’t learn’ certainly doesn’t then equate to “sure you can, you can just assimilate that information and be an expert in two seconds, hurry up now, do that Calculus! Quick Quick!” (slightly equivalent to “snap out of it”).

No one is saying that when they disagree with the “I can’t learn” statement. It is more of an equivalent (to continue with your depressed person’s analogy) of “we can get you some help and start you on your way”.

I know this is far off topic (sorry OP), but imho, when people say “I can’t learn it” (whatever “It” may be), more times than not what they mean is “I can’t become an expert at it and I don’t like not being perfect/getting something absolutely correct right off the bat/having to struggle at something/having the possibility of failing”. I think that’s why a lot of those who say (paraphrased) “there’s no such thing as I can’t learn” believe that. I’m reasonably sure that’s what **tdn **meant when he originally said that.

(sorry tdn, I just thought the “I can’t learn” part of this was kind of interesting, end hijack)

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Okay, what about a color-blind analogy? :stuck_out_tongue:

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I can’t dance in the same way that I can’t bowl. Technically, yeah, I can roll a ball down a lane, get 5 gutter balls, knock down a few dozen pins, look like a complete dork doing it, and then have a sore shoulder the next day. I’ll do it to be social, but I suck badly and pretty much can’t improve. If I never bowl again, I’d be fine with that. If I were dating a serious bowler, I’d hope he’d understand that I will never share that interest with him and I’m not going to force myself to do it more than a couple of times a year solely to make him happy, and I won’t enjoy it, only that it makes him happy. I’d hope he would understand that and just pursue that hobby with friends.

I feel the same exact way about dancing. I imagine other people do too.

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The reason this is true, especially for men, is that women can smell from 400 yards a man who is not confident and happy with himself. If he’s not happy now, what are the chances dating/marriage is really going to change things?

And I’m a dude.

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Please speak slowly, I’m naturally blonde!

:smiley:

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Understood. In this particular case my post above was more about the “I can’t learn” thing than it was the “love/hate dancing” thing. :slight_smile:

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This is true if you’re a woman too. This has got to be one of God’s biggest jokes and one of the all time great Catch-22s.

Be happy and confident and don’t be desperate even if you’re lonely and unhappy, because that’s the only way you’re going to get unlonely and happy!
Arrrrgh, no wonder I love my job, at least it keeps my mind off this whole mess.

:smiley:

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Well, it does work the other way sometimes, yes. I would generally say that men are less perceptive about this. But I did slide away from IMing a woman because she seemed way too into me. She slipped up and typed something about falling in love with a man recently, and she’d never met me! That’s clingy and desperate, I thought. And then when we met once, I just couldn’t get the conversation really started. So I was pretty much vindicated in my mind.

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Wow. A Doper told me (in private) that this was the thread that would not die. That was eight days ago. This thread is only nine days old.

This thread is like herpes. Potentially dangerous, mostly just annoying, and it stays with you forever. (Take that as a joke. IANAD.)

No apology necessary. You’re spot on.

I’ve been giving this subject a lot of thought, and I believe I now have the language to express my OP much more clearly.

RubyStreak and a few others have explained the “just happen” advice well. I grok where they’re coming from. It basically boils down to “Be in the right place at the right time, try to be confident and not skeevy, and it will just happen.” Is that about right?

Let me state that again:

“Be in the right place at the right time, try to be confident and not skeevy, and it will just happen.”

Note the bolding. Now let’s try it this way:

“Be in the right place at the right time, try to be confident and not skeevy, and it will just happen.”

See the difference? The difference here is in developing social skills. The difference is in developing an approach that works, being able to carry on a conversation that builds interest, and closing with a phone number. And not creeping the person out. Those are skills. They’re tools. You can’t build a life without tools.

A lot of advice has been “go dancing” or “take an adult ed class” or “join a gym.” All excellent advice, but it’s missing a key component.

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned singles bars or mixers. What could possibly be a better environment than that? Hundreds of available women are there with no other purpose than meeting guys. There is no possible righter place or righter time. If it will “just happen” anywhere, it’s there.

You know what else it’s a great place for? Sitting alone in a corner, nursing a beer, looking forlorn, and feeling miserably inadequate. There is no better expert in that than me. And I’m sure I’m not alone in that. I’d bet a lot of you can totally relate to this.

So what’s missing from this picture? What is “It’ll just happen” missing that’s an essential ingredient in this situation? Is it that lightning just hasn’t struck yet? No.

“Go dancing” or “take an adult ed class” or “join a gym” is excellent advice about where to meet people. It is 100% useless advice about how to meet people.

It’s that second part the I need to develop at this stage of my life. The information is out there, I just have to seek it out, learn it, and own it. If I do well enough, the where and when will just be gravy.

Does all that make sense?

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tdn, have you tried internet dating? I’ve flogged this horse before on other threads, but it worked for me, my brother, and several of my friends, since we don’t do singles bars or any of that crap, and hey, I totally don’t dance. You may have already tried this, and if so, I apologize for repeating advice you’ve already heard. If you decide to try it, I’d look at your profile for you and give advice, not that I’m such a dating guru, but I could help detect the accidentally skeevy for you.

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Yep. I have profiles up on about 5 sites right now. One is Doper Approved™. And none of them are generating any quality responses. I pretty much consider that a dead resource.

But you know what? I don’t care. You know that saying that God never closes a door without opening a window? I don’t believe in God, but I’ve opened a window for myself. My current situation is a perfect opportunity for personal growth. And I’m pumped about it.

Something happened to me yesterday that I feel pretty good about.

Sue cuts hair at Great Cuts. (Yeah yeah, I know, but they’re pretty good there.) She’s truly gifted at it, she’s really nice, and she’s a babe. When I walked by there yesterday, I noticed she was working. “Great”, I thought, “I’ll talk to her when I go in there.”

But when I went in, she wasn’t there. So someone else cut my hair, then I went to the counter to pay for it. It was then that I noticed Sue in back, giving some guy a dye job, or maybe a shampoo. She not only smiled back, but waved. Then she abandoned her customer to come out front and say hi, and ask me how I was doing. Let me repeat – A total babe went totally out of her way just to say hi to me.

Wasn’t that nice? :slight_smile:

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Oh, and RubyStreak, I forgot to thank you for your kind offer. That was very nice.

If you want to see my profile, go to OkCupid and search for tdntdn. Ain’t that a clever user name? :wink: But realize that I probably won’t do much to change it. I’m just in a different mode of approaching the situation these days.

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CanvasShoes, I’m sorry, but I really don’t have the energy to go through this again for the second time in this thread, something like the fifth time on this board, and the umpteenth time in my life.

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This is too funny, and I just has to share.

I just read your post a few hours ago. Anyway, a few days ago I got this DVD set in the mail. Yes, naughty me, I responded to spam. But I figured, hey, 30 day free trial, how can I lose? But while the sales package was skeevy, the materials are quite good. The series is about meeting women, but it’s not so much what pickup lines work as how to reach emotional manhood. Basically, how to be more attractive by making wise decisions and not being a whiny bitch.

It’s presented by two guys, one of whom is a master pickup artist, and the other is a psychiatrist. It’s reall useful stuff.

Anyway, I’m sick as a dog today, so I’m just vegging out and watching this.

The psychiatrist was about to tell a story about someone in Alaska. The pickup artist piped in with how he heard the ratio of men to women there was 3 to 1, and how an Alaskan woman told him the goods/odds joke.

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I’ve heard more than one success story that came from the dreaded High School Reunion. If you have one coming up, try to go. If you don’t try Classmates.com. Even if you don’t find true love, it’s tons of grins getting emails from long lost friends.

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I’m not surprised in the least, in this world of wars that are wrong (or not based upon who is on which side), illegal immigration and all that political rot, this is human interest, things that we all have legitimate and learned opinions on, and for which all of us have valuable advice and insight.

Well, it makes perfect sense to me, though I have to admit, I should recuse myself from the “don’t know how to meet people” phase of this. I do know how, I just don’t want to at this phase of my “dating life” (reference my previous posts on the lack of men who mesh with me and who are available in my state, small in population, Huge in acreage). But I’m just as frustrated with the useless “it’ll just happen” adage as I am with the “eat less, exercise more” mantra. Again, with working on one’s education and career goals, there is a definite end point that one can look to. A light at the end of the tunnel.

IMHO, it still boils down to you can meet 'em, and you can know how to not skeeve 'em out, and that still doesn’t mean that love will just happen. Acquaintances and friends happen that way, but “twue wuv,” as other posters have mentioned, takes a hell of a lot more than magically “being confident” and allowing it to “just happen”.

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Ummm, I think we were on to more of a general discussion of the “can’t learn” concept, and not your specific case. No need for you to join in, sorry if you thought we were posting directly to you.

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In my opinion (and in my experience), you can’t make someone fall in love with you. You can make yourself more interesting or more attractive, but that’s not love. You can make dates happen, but love is a whole 'nother animal.

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Absolutely, love is more about chemistry than technique. The thing is, by not knowing technique, you’re shutting the door to the possibilities of chemistry. So I think the secret is to accumulate possibilities. Lightning is more likely to strike if you surround yourself with a lot of storms and have a big, uh, lightning rod. :stuck_out_tongue:

I did just learn something interesting about being able to locate someone who is more compatible, though. It may be more theoretical than actual, but thinking about couples I know who are very happy, it absolutely rings true.

You’ll have to supply your own visual aid, but I’ll tell you how to draw it. Draw a circle. Then draw a vertical line down the center of it, and a horizontal line through the center of it, so that the circle now has four quadrants. Label the left side “Left brain” and the right side “Right brain.” Label the top “Nurturing” and the bottom “Confident.”

Now put these words in the quadrents:

Upper left: King
Lower left: Warrior
Lower right: Magician
Upper right: Lover

Which one are you? Do you think more logically and with words (left), or more creatively and symbolically (right)? Are you more of a self-nurturing person or more confident?

Myself, I’m a king. Thinking about things in this way, the type of person that would complete me, and be my natural mate would be a Magician – my exact opposite. That also describes my parents. My sister is a lover, her husband is a warrior.

Most of my past girlfriends were magicians. My last girlfriend was a queen. Logically, we shouldn’t have gotten along. But I realized that in that relationship, I was a total magician.

Interesting side note to that, the four main characters on Sex and the City were those four archetypes.

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…Can we blame George W and Homeland Security, then? :smiley:
Note: quite a few posts in the last couple of pages that would be great over in the dancing thread…