Lying to your kids about Santa

In My Humble Opinion
41

ummm…so anyway…

I’m nearly twenty and Santa still comes to my parents’ house. I think that was the key factor that made me continue to trust my parents. When the evil boy in first grade told me that Santa was my parents, and I confronted my mom about it, she told me that Santa was all those good “spirit of giving” feelings and that Santa would always come to our house. And “he” has.

I do feel sort of silly when I open presents and thank my mom only to have her say, “Ohhh, that’s from Santa.” But I’d rather Santa still come than complain about it. Kids needing magic? Nah, we all do :slight_smile:

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Ways to be honest with your kids so they don’t grow up dumm:

  1. When they bring you a drawing and say, “That’s you, Daddy!”, say “Not even close, kid.”
  2. The correct answer to “I want to grow up to be a ballerina” is “Fat chance - you better learn to type, Muffin.”
  3. Don’t encourage her by showing up at the Christmas pageant - if she gets the idea you like “The 12 Days of Christmas” sung off-key, she might sing it at home. Face it, she’s no Whitney Houston. She needs to understand this.
  4. Babies come from sex. Mommy and Daddy do it.
  5. Aunt Grace never went to church, never believed in God. Yes, she is in hell.
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Everyone gets to make their own rules in their own homes.

My kids always have enjoyed, and continue to enjoy, make believe and fantasy. I think that the ability to use your imagination is very important in all stages of life. That does not, however, mean that one is necessarily unable to distinguish between reality and fantasy.

I second the request for testimony from the legions of adults who were permanently scarred by such evil lies.

The only possibility for harm I see is if parents intentionally continue to foster a belief in Santa to a point where a kid is mocked at school for still believing. But you have not yet convinced me that there is ANYTHING wrong with a young kid - say 3-5, believing in magic, fairies, and yes - Santa.

Now if you have a young kid who goes out of his or her way to tell other young kids that there is no Santa (yes, it happened to us with the bible-thumper family down the block) I’d say that kid is missing some lessons on the respect owed other people.

seal clubber great list. Except for #4. When I asked my 15 year old daughter if she had any questions about sex - I wish I could remember her exact words, but she said something like, “You aren’t going to tell me all about sperm and eggs again, are you? You and mom have told us about that for years.”

May I suggest a substitute?
No, there is no such thing as an imaginary friend, and if you act that goofy all the time it is no wonder that you don’t have any friends.

Or how about?
No, daddy is not the greatest/strongest/funniest/bravest man in the world. It’s about time you learned what a schmuck I really am. Let me fill you in …

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And vasyachkin - do I sense that someone got coal in their stocking?

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seal_clubber, your comparisons are off the mark. The standard parental answer to, say, your example 1 is something like “Oh, thank you so much sweetheart! I love it!” Nothing dishonest there–I assure you a parent does honestly love such pictures. And I’m sure we can all agree that it’s ridiculous to tell the child they’ll be rich and famous artists someday, or to tell them that their picture really has some kind of supernatural powers, just because it’s cute that kids believe things like that.

You seem to think that being a kid is only wonderful if you’re somehow shielded from reality, which is just one big fat disappointment. I don’t think any of us who don’t think it’s appropriate to lie about Santa are having “serious” Christmas with no fun and forcing our kids to face the brutal truth that the world sucks. We’re just not lying. It’s very odd to me that so many people seem to think that truth (even the simplified version of it that’s comprehensible to kids) is somehow always unpleasant. And I find that strange, especially in a group of people dedicated to fighting ignorance.

Kids who don’t get the “Santa is real” thing still have Santa–they still have wonderful, magical Christmas, they still have happy childhoods. They just don’t believe Santa is a real person. And I don’t have to lie to them, or worry that one day they’ll find me out. (My in-laws are in great anxiety over this, with my nieces. I find it inexplicable. But there it is.) And I never have to worry that I’m decieving my kids. And frankly, the real world is magical enough, even given the bad stuff.

In my house, we have no framed pictures on the walls, just scotch tape holding up the paidhi-kids’ drawings. And they won’t be selling to collectors or galleries any time soon, but I love them, and so does Mr. Cameron. Honestly so. It’s not lying to say so. We go to the paidhi-girl’s school concerts because we love to hear the kids singing. Honestly. And the ballerina thing is just goofy. If a six year old says she wants to be a ballerina, she’s going to change her mind in the next five minutes and swear she wants to be an astronaut. Or a pirate. Or maybe a giraffe. So the entirely honest answer is “Great!” An older child can process more complicated answers, though, and telling her it’s hard to be a ballerina, and only a few people are, she’ll have to work very hard and maybe she should have a backup plan, is both entirely honest and not as mean-spirited as your “learn to type, Muffin.” What I’m trying to say is, there’s a big difference between “truth” and “ruining things” and refusing to lie about Santa isn’t “ruining things.”

(And I don’t see what the problem is with 4–there’s no reason to break out the porn films, but I think that’s another topic parents ought to be honest about, in an age-appropriate way.)

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I was having a bit of fun -:wink: I know my parallels were flawed. I was largely respsonding to vasyachkin <<you are all so busy trying to make kids out of kids, so afraid kids may become adults and learn how to think.>>
Both my kids believed, and are turning out as intelligent, thoughful people.
Not to totally mangle the thread, but I have worried for some time that younger American kids are being encouraged to be too adult too fast. Need more play, less early academics. More fantasy, less Suzuki.

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Very good.

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I can’t add much more to what Bren_Cameron said. He said what I was thinking better than I could have hoped to. Nicely put.

But I did want to address something Dinsdale said. There may not be legions of adults who were scarred the false belief in Santa, but that still doesn’t make it right. While one lie may not crumble the entire framework of trust, I do think it weakens it just a little. Can you show me a legion of adults who did not have magical Christmases because they didn’t believe in Santa?

I do think kids needs to be kids and needs lots of playtime and fantasy. But their fantasy; things they make up. I don’t think they need to be lied to. There are so many things kids need to ‘unlearn’ as they grow up. No one is trying to make them grow up faster.

49

I’m curious about how some of you folk think topics like Santa get brought up? Do you think there is some kind of parental lying manual that tells you the right time to start laying the proper foundation for various falsehoods?

You read your kid stories from well before they can understand the words. And your kid watches videos, TV, and plays. And interacts with family and friends. And views their sorroundings in stores, parks, houses, etc.

The kid is exposed to many stories and programs involving fairies, elves, talking animals or trains, magic, leprechauns, ghosts and goblins, etc. Do you preface every story with an acknowledgement whether it is fiction or not?

At some point, your kid might start talking about Thomas the Tank Engine as tho Thomas actually exists and gives a shit about your kid. How do you react then? If a parent plays along with it, maybe even says Thomas would like you to eat your veggies, do you believe the parent is wrong? A liar?

And whether through stories, media, or social interaction, kids hear about Santa. I have yet to encounter parents who devised strategies for convincing their kids of the Santa lie. Kids easily fall into it, and just as easily grow out of it.

Then there is a point when kids realize that most of their make believe is not real, but they enjoy convincing themselves that they kind of still believe for various reasons. How do you react then?

Myths including Santa, the Easter bunny, leprechauns, tooth fairy, cupid, ghosts and witches, are all part of the culture in which I grew up. I am not aware of any ill-effects resulting from participation in such myths, and I have no qualms about sharing that culture with my kids.

I have not heard anyone in this thread - or elsewhere - say that it is WRONG to tell a kid that there is no such person as Santa. My personal thought is that your kid (and you) would be missing out on a unique and fun experience that is only possible for a brief moment in your child’s youth - but as I said before, each family gets to make their own rules.

Remember, however, that the OP - and several subsequent posts - used the word lying. Any number of other words could have been chosen if a judgmental and critical tone weren’t desired.

Moreover, of all of the folk who suggest it is wrong to lie to your kids - PLEASE don’t tell me that you had your infants baptized, or tell them that any religious stories are true. Cause I’ve got exactly as much proof of the reality of Santa, as you can provide of any other supernatural entity you wish to believe in. I hope you do not LIE to your kids about that! Think how scarred they will be when they grow up and find out their parents were LYING all along. (Oh yeah - attempted religious indoctrination is one thing I HAVE heard people criticize their parents for.)

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Dinsdale, there is a big difference between telling your children things you believe are true, but aren’t provable (not lying) and telling them things you know aren’t true (lying).

And parents do, indeed, deliberately decieve their children about Santa. Why don’t kids believe the Powerpuff Girls are real? Why don’t kids believe the Cat in the Hat is real? Or Frog and Toad, or whoever else? It’s because parents talk about those characters as though they’re fictional, present them as pretend, and when kids ask (as they do) “Do people really have super powers? Is there really a place called Townsville?” parents unhesitatingly say, “No. It’s a nice story, though, isn’t it?” And the kids go on pretending they’re Mojo Jojo.

Most parents don’t tell their children to put cookies out for the Powerpuff Girls and then eat them at night and tell the kids Bubbles did it. Most parents don’t get anxious when they think little Suzy might figure out that Blossom isn’t real. Most parents don’t talk about them as though they’re real, and then tiptoe around anything that might indicate otherwise.

Yes, it’s a cultural thing, but one in which parents knowingly and willingly participate–it doesn’t just happen on its own. I’ve never sat my daughter down and told her Santa wasn’t real. I’ve never banned images or stories of Santa from our house. But my daughter doesn’t think Santa is a real person. Why? Because we’ve never treated him as anything other than a really wonderful story. It is a choice on parents’ part to teach their children that Santa is a real person. It is deliberate.

And it’s a lie. There’s no way around it. To an adult, it’s pretend, but a child has no way of knowing that–unless and until they figure it out for themselves, they have no way of distinguishing fantasy from reality without other cues, which are deliberately concealed from them. It’s nothing at all like games of pretend, or fictional stories, not for the kids.

Now, I don’t think anyone has been harmed by it, no one has been scarred for life. And I can’t say I’ve never lied to my kids–I’ve been known to insist there were no more cookies left, for instance, so that we’d still have some the next day and I wouldn’t be dealing with kids crying incessantly for more cookies, or cleaning up after the result of letting them eat too many. And parents have different methods of raising their kids, and make different choices–I don’t think a parent who tells this lie to their kids is harming them. I just think it doesn’t make sense, especially if the parents value truth–it’s inconsistent with what we actually say we want our kids to believe and do.

When you deliberately tell someone something that isn’t true, with the intent to decieve, you are lying.

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I think we might disagree on definitions of lying - or perhaps the mechanisms whereby belief in Santa is perpetuated. Some things you may characterize as lying, I would consider playing along, or encouraging the kid’s imagination.

When my 2-3 year old kid asks, “Is Santa real?”
I respond, “What do you think?”
Kid says, “I know he is, because xyz.”
And I say, “That’s nice. Since you are such a special child, I bet you get lots of neat presents this year.”

When my 5-6 year old asks, “Is Santa real?”
I respond, “What do you think?”
Kid says, “I don’t know, because Johnny says he isn’t, and how does he get all over the world, and we don’t even have a chimney…”

At some point, using my judgment with respect to this particular kid, I might suggest to him that we should examine all of the possibilities. But if believing in Santa makes him happy, he can feel free to continue believing. But since he is getting to be such a big boy, he might not want to share his beliefs too loudly on the playground.

And depending on his reaction that year or the next, the discussion might go on to wasn’t it neat believing in Santa way back when he was a little kid? And now you get to join mommy and daddy in being Santa to your younger brothers, sisters, and relatives, so there’s no need to walk around loudly proclaiming the nonexistence of Santa because - like all supernatural beings - everyone has the option of choosing for themselves which ones they believe in at various parts of their lives.

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My kids were not babtized. I’ve told them from the beginning TV is TV and not reality. I’ve never used Rolie Polie Olie or any other TV concoction to get them to eat their veggies. Witches, ghosts and the like were never portrayed as real. I honestly believe there is enough mystery and magic in the reality of the world in which we live without need to make up more.

My kids, like most other kids, have very vivid imaginations and love to play make believe. I highly encourage that but I would never tell them they can really fly if they just find some pixie dust. But do I make believe I’m Peter Pan with them and fly all over the house? You bet. Do I pretend I’m a ghost and say “boo!”? Absolutely. Why would it need to be real to be more fun for them?

As for religion, if you believe something is real it is not a lie. I do not believe Santa is real, yet I’ve convinced my kids he is real. That is a lie. No other word fits for me.

As people have said in this very thread, parents would make footprints on the carpet, or eat the cookies or leave other traces Santa was there. They might put “From Santa” on the present or devise other ways to make kids think Santa really exists, from encouraging letter writing to going to the mall to sit on his lap.

I’m glad we agree each gets to make his own rules. I hold nothing against parents who perpetuate the Santa legend. I think it IS fun to watch the kids light up with the wonderful story it tells. The OP was centered around the misgivings I have with it, and to know if others felt the same. I hope I’m clear I’m not saying other parents are wrong.

And once again Bren_Cameron beat me to the punch. But I typed all this and I’m not going to just dump it!

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And how do folk react when their kids ask, “Is God real?”

Do they say, “Yes indeed he is.”

Or do they say, "I believe he is, because I have chosen to accept ABC peoples’ interpretations of XYZ particular writings, and I have chosen to interpret 123 specific experiences as consistent with such belief system. But many many people in our community and all over the world, do not share my particular belief. And that doesn’t make them bad people. Here, let me teach you of all the various belief systems, and you can decide for yourself whether you believe the same as me.

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Like most parents, my answer is “You demon-spawned incubus! Run from my presence 'ere I strike thee insensiate!”
Or:
“Why ask me? I’d only lie to you.”

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Dinsdale - At no point in your child’s life did you ever tell your kids, “Sants lives at the north pole and brings presents all around the world!”? Never? You never once portrayed the story as real, explaining to them who Santa is? I’d be pretty amazed if that is true. Sure, once you get them started and they get the concept it is easy to back off, but reading a book and portraying it as real is just as much a deception (“lie”) as anything else. I don’t read my kids “The Cat in the Hat” and then take them to a mall to see someone dressed up in a funny cat outfit taking spots off the wall with dad’s $10 shoes or dance around with thing 1 and thing 2.

As for God, once again the idea is that you are not trying to convince them of something you know (or believe) to be false.

Suppose every day your boss came up to you and said, “Dinsdale, I’ve put in a good word with the bosses for you and on January 5th you will get a HUGE raise!”. False memos had been created and all your co-workers were in on it. Maybe your boss even had one of the payroll guys come down and ask you how you were going to spend the new money, just to make it look good. January 5th comes around and no raise. How does it feel? Now you are told that it is tradition to do this, and now you are in the clique and can do it to the next guy. Oh the joy of seeing the bright smile of the next person makes it all worth while, doesn’t it?

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Well, in the case of Santa, the presents still came after the belief ended. Think that’s sort of a false analogy.

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Yeah, the anlogy isn’t perfect, I admit. I had other plot twists to make it match up better with what really happens, but decided to take a shorter route. mea culpa.

The point is that no one likes to be deceived. I think it is a disservice to kids to think they enjoy it, even if there is a temporary joy associated with it.

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Hey, if my boss gave me a check, and told me it was from Santa, I’d say thank you very much and make sure it cleared!

And of course I cannot say that I never told my kids things about Santa. Heck, I even told them whhat kinds of cookies he preferred, and even suggested the substitute a nice ale for the milk.

But I did not intentionally bring up these things to a blank slate, with the intention of fostering a belief the kid would not otherwise encounter. Instead, when I sensed a willingness on my kids’ behalf to engage in this fantasy, I went along with it.

I remember my kids going to a store and seeing Big Bird, or Barney. And they LOVED the fact that these folk were in the neighborhood.

Should I have told them, “Well, that’s just some minimum-wage mope in a pretty ratty looking costume. If you look closely, you’ll see where he looks out. And anyway, since you brought it up, Big Bird and Barney are fake. And they don’t give a shit about you. Let me explain marketing… Mr. Rogers, well, I THINK he’s real, and he seems like a nice guy, but that King Friday is a real jerk, lording it over all the other puppets.” (Obligatory mangled BTVS reference.)

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lol

Point taken, Dinsdale. And thanks for the laugh.

Thanks for your input and viewpoint, too. I don’t have much else to add, as I think we’ve both made our point.

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Think they enjoy it? I know my kids enjoyed believing, and now they enjoy playing Santa for younger relatives, as well as being in on the secret.