Lynn73, These Are My Problems With You

The BBQ Pit
1

Lynn73 since you’re back, out of duty to myself, my God, and you, I need to list for you the specific reasons I dislike you as much as I do. This is why I lost my temper with you last night, and, I’m afraid, am tempted to do so everytime I come across you. I haven’t posted them before now because I did not want to attack you in a place where you could not defend yourself, and I didn’t e-mail you with them because for months I did not trust myself to e-mail you civilly and, by the time I did, I had deleted your previous e-mails lest I yield to temptation and behave in a way which I consider sinful. It’s Lent, a good time to atone for my sins and make my peace not only with God, but with my neighbor. To my discredit, I’m not sure if that’s possible, and I wish I could say I’m entirely willing to – anger and hatred are powerful emotions – but let me lay out my charges against you for you to respond to as you will.

  1. Last summer, when we were exchanging e-mails on a fairly regular basis, a very dear and beloved friend of mine suffered a health crisis which threatened her life and her marriage. Her husband, perhaps the dearest friend I had called me terrified at the prospect of losing his wife to death, madness, or divorce. I didn’t want to hurt you by cutting you off without a word, so I e-mailed you and asked if I could take a break from our e-mails for a while so I could focus my energies on my friends. You agreed. Two weeks later, I came home from a weekend away to learn my friend was back in the hospital. I also had no electricity. When the power came back on and I went on-line, I saw requests from four people asking to join Cecil’s Place and an e-mail from you. I was stressed and scared. In your e-mail, you accused me of leading people to hell because of my beliefs. I deleted that e-mail months ago, but the cruelty and malice I read in that accusation, not to mention what I read the sanctimonious tone in which you offered to pray for me offended me, as I’m pretty sure you worked out from my reply.

To sum up, when I had told you I was low and vulnerable, after I showed you courtesy and respect, you responded with an unexpected and, as far as I can make out, unprovoked attack. Our views on homosexuality differ; our views on divorce, apparently, also differ. A year or so ago, when you had asked me to stop e-mailing you , I respected your wishes. You showed me no such courtesy and, as far as I’m concerned, cruelly and deliberately attacked me without provocation. That is at the root of this and, frankly, why I am afraid I do not trust you.

  1. (This is the weakest of my points and the one I’m least comfortable with here.) Sometime after the events described in point 1, in a place which I do not and will not go, you accused me of launching an unprovoked attack on you because of my response to the incidents in point 1. As far as I can make out, this is the equivalent of a small child saying, “The mean doggie bit me!” and only admitting, after some questioning, that the reason the mean doggie bit her is because she poked the doggie with a sharp stick. I may have been a Christian for years, but I still haven’t got the hang of turning the other cheek yet.

This is why I accuse you of slander, morally, not legally.

  1. Last fall, I was looking through the archives of Cecil’s Place, seeking to measure the progress I’d made after a rather bad year. I came across something I’d written last December. I posted it there, not here because of my unwillingness to show vulnerability to those who attack me. I am no longer vulnerable in that area, so I’ll quote what I posted:

What’s the reason for that crisis in faith? I’m afraid it’s you, lynn73, at least in no small measure. You were the one who posted a thread containing the line “He who shows mercy is a traitor to Christ.” Given how central mercy is to my faith you, in effect called me a traitor to Christ. As far as I’m concerned, you damaged my faith, and your beliefs as stated here have no room for someone who doesn’t follow the faith we share.

So, here are my three problems with you:

  1. You attacked me without warning when I was low and did so by making a particularly cruel accusation.
  2. You accused me of doing something I hadn’t in a place where I could not defend myself.
  3. You damaged my faith.

You have injured me. Perhaps I was a fool to let my guard down around you and allow that first thing to happen. It probably would have been best for all concerned if I’d deleted that first e-mail unread. Hindsight is 20-20 and my sins are committed. Now all I can do on my part is tell you the nature of my sins and of my injuries, atone as best I can, and ask that you account for yourself. I’m told you have changed. I hope that’s true, and my response to you yesterday was out of proportion to your post. I have sinned against you and my belief that you have sinned against me does not justify that. As a Christian, I am obligated to forgive you as our Father forgives us, and remove the hatred and pain from my heart. I ask your help with that.

I mean this when I say, “humbly”
CJ

2

Are you serious? A human being actually said, “He who shows mercy is a traitor to Christ”? That has to be someone planted from the opposing side who makes arguments so absurd that it poisons the well for genuine debaters on that side. In other words, whoever said that is either a devil’s advocate or else the devil.

3

Lynn73 is currently espousing literal 6-day creationism in GD.

If someone sees the devil in reason, patience and earnest debate, they would see evil in Christ Himself.

Peace be upon you, Siege.

4

I don’t see the devil in those. I see the devil in lies. “When he lies, he is speaking his native tongue. He is the father of lies, for there is no truth in him.” — Jesus

5

I find this sad, to tell the honest truth. I have a lot of respect for you, Siege, and it’s troublesome that I see you are putting forth so much effort with Lynn-not because Lynn isn’t worth it or doesn’t mean well (although I have to wonder when attacks you as in part 1), but because Lynn isn’t going to change. Furthermore I don’t think Lynn even sees the problem with her behavior.

For the most part, when I think of “Christians” I think of people like you, Libertarian, and Polycarp (and a host of others). People who are a good example of human beings.

Then there are the other Christians, the ones who seem to get off on the vicious nature of some of the Christian religion-hell, punishment, and holier-than-thou attitudes.

I don’t understand this second group, especially when they are trying to witness to people. Perhaps this is anecdotal, but if I were to be witnessed to both groups (seperate times) I would certainly be 100% more receptive to the first group. The second group I can only pity, for IMO they are not even attempting to see the good parts in mankind.

6

CJ,

Thanks for your explanations and the polite manner in which you gave it. First, I want to say that I’m not really what you would call “back at the Dope.” I just come here once in awhile to check things out to see what’s going on. If I happen to desire to, I may respond to some of the posts. I know vanilla and jersey still post here so I like to see what they’re saying.

I just want to say that I’m sorry for the way you feel about me and perhaps my lack of judgment in not listening closely enough that I shouldn’t be sending you emails. I was just greatly troubled about things you were saying to people and felt compelled to say something. I also emailed Polycarp but never received a reply from him. I probably had forgotten that you were going through a bad time. I do apologize for not respecting that.

I feel that we simply don’t know how to communicate very well. The devotional I posted at one time with the words “he who shows mercy is a traitor to Christ” has, I believe, been taken out of context from the whole devotional. Since I can’t remember what the whole thing said, I can only say what I think it meant. I think that it means that if a Christian says things to another person to pacify that person and make them comfortable instead of telling them truth, then they’re doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the Lord. Or also it’s wrong if they try to block the Lord’s working in someone’s life, even if that working is causing temporary grief. Anyway, that’s all in the past and I don’t want to go into it all over again.

I certainly have never intended to attack or provoke you. I’ve said certain things only because I felt the Holy Spirit was leading me to do so but I may not have said it right or at the right time. So, please forgive me also. We are most likely never going to agree on the things we’ve already discussed in the past but I see no reason that adult people shouldn’t be able to discuss things in a polite manner. I’ve seen it done on other boards.

I have to go now. Once again, my apologies for lack of judgment and problems with sharing my views without provoking anger. I’m afraid it’s almost impossible to do that here since it seems that if one doesn’t agree with everyone else, you’re put on the black list or pitted.

Anyway, I wish you all the best. Peace. I pray that things are going better for you now.

Lynn

7

I wouldn’t dream of suggesting so, friend. I was referring to fundamentalists. (No fun, all mental!)

8

The motto of the Dope is “Fighting ignorance since 1973”, Lynn73. The belief that homosexuality is a choice and not found in the animal kingdom, that dinosaurs lived alongside men or that the Earth is mere millennia old is, I’m afraid, profoundly ignorant.

You can choose to believe these things, but you must ignore the vast evidence to the contrary.

9

Well, that may be true from your view, of course. But I don’t consider myself to be ignorant nor do I think everyone here are know it alls who don’t have any ignorance of their own. No offense intended, some of us just look at things from a whole different perspedive: a faith based biblical perspective which doesn’t go over well here. But that’s okay…and yes I do ignore any so called evidence that may seem to contradict the Bible. Evidence can be deceiving. Anyway… gotta go. Have a nice day.

10

Lynn, if you ever do jury duty, please repeat what you have just posted to the court.

If you ever stood trial for a crime, Lynn, would you want the jury to assess the evidence or simply go with what they “believed”?

11

“What is the greatest Commandment?” asked the young man to the Great Teacher.

Jesus answered, “You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart, with your whole soul, with your whole mind. This is the greatest and the first Command. The second, like it, is this, You must love your neighbor as yourself.”

Seems pretty self explanitory. Fits with the Golden Rule. Also requires us to really think about things, not just dismissing them when we disagree with ‘evidence.’ How would that be using your whole mind? And, while we don’t want to compromise our faith, how is harsh critism of anyone keeping in line with “love your neighbor as yourself?”
Also, note what St Paul (Apostle Paul) had to say in a letter to fellow believers:

“Behave in a manner worthy of the good news about the Christ…doing nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering that the others are superior to you.” [yes, I skipped a few verses to make the point, but I did not change the meaning or take it out of context]
Being Christian may not be easy. But there is no reason to make it harder on others (or on yourself) then is needed out of some egoistic failings.

Lynn, take this as critisism or loving council, I know in what way I intend it. CJ, your faith is your own. Others affect you only as much as you allow them to. You have my personal contact info if you feel any desire to converse in an upbuilding way.

12

christians, more than any other group, can be so judgmental.
I see it a lot.
Especially if they get a christian message board where almost all agree with them.
Lynn and I post on another board where a poster has claimed that Matthew Shepherd got what he asked for.

Its always good to hear dissenting opinions and THINK.
This board has helped me become a better christian (more like Christ) by disagreeing with me and making me realize Do Not Be Judgmental!
(one CAN be wrong ya know).

That said, I also posted over in GD that i believe in a 6 day creation, but…so what? It doesn’t hurt anyone that I believe this, doesn’t even affect me.

Polycarp, Libertarian, Seige, you guys are good examples of Chrsitians.

13

You keep saying you have to go, but this makes me want you to stay.

These things are difficult, but they can be worked at. I remember a time when I couldn’t say much that would be listened to by anyone who did not already agree with me; and when I could not learn from people with whom I did not already agree. Should you stay around here you will be frustrated (and probably at least initially scorned). But if you find a way to get listened to and if you gain the capacity to get something - even if it’s just appreciation of why you disagree - from those with whom you disagree it would be worth it.

And Siege, you’re a brick. Even when you flame, you’re a brick.

14

Apology accepted. Last night, as I said, was an abominably bad night, and the wounds you caused were, I’m afraid, all too real and are all too painful. My faith, wishy-washy though some would call it, requires me to bend beneath God’s yoke and try to make peace with you. Despite appearances to the contrary, it ain’t all that easy being one of us “liberal types”, you know! :wink:

I’ve been accused, I believe, of being willing to forgive anyone anything. If that’s the case, it had better include you.

Please bear with me. Patience has never been my strong suit, but I will try to change. Among other things, as I said in the OP, it seems a fitting thing to do for Lent.

Respectfully,
CJ

15

By the way, since an apology has been offered and accepted, I’ve asked that this thread be closed.

CJ