Mad-Men: 5.11 "The Other Woman" (open spoilers)

Cafe Society
61

I thought the acting was great when Crude Fat Guy said to Joan “Let’s see 'em”. When he says that, it establishes that he’s such a cretin there is no way she can fantasize her way out of what she’s doing (i.e. it’s not something she can later pass off as a ‘I might have slept with him anyway if I was drunk and he was cute’, this is prostitution plain and simple.)

OTOH, Pete had a point when he said many of us have made unwise or embarrassing decisions that led to one night stands for free. At least hers has the potential to set her up for life for what is at worst an evening of her time with a crude and clumsy lover. Keep in mind she got nothing when her husband basically raped her at work; this time she was at least largely in control, and she really was not required to sleep with him- she would not have lost her job had she refused. (It would be a good IMHO thread- would you prostitute yourself in an "indecent proposal’ situation with a potentially huge reward; I won’t start it but hopefully someone will.)
Do you think Don even associated Peggy leaving with his throwing money in her face? He gets flustered sometimes, but that was such a dick move that I’m surprised he didn’t apologize for it later on his own. (I wondered if it was to contrast her and Joan by the writers- both women make a major life decision when money is thrown in their face, one figurative and one literal.)

62

Great catch. Also, Sal fired back at Don, “What if it was Joan?”. We’ve got our answer.

When I was bored as hell the other day at work, in my head I wrote myself into Mad Men as a Mary Sue or Bobby Stu (whatever the male version is). Rather than be part of the company, I thought who is really most important in this world? The client. So I imagined myself as the Important Client for a prestigious product of the era, and I came up with Cadillac. Then I asked myself, with all the clout I would wield in this fictional world, what would I do with it? Have sex with Joan, my mind instantly screamed at me. The only difference, I swear the only difference, was I thought, oh that would never work now because she’s supposed to appear married. This all happened, and it was really weird watching my imagination so plainly bested last night.

63

Also remember, the only reason we know they needed this deal, was that Pete said so. We saw the guy say he wanted Joan, but we only have Pete’s word that if he didn’t get Joan, they would lose the account. It wouldn’t surprise me if Pete just wanted to grease the wheels, and put such a dire spin on it to make everyone go through with it.

64

I think the “let me see them” line is the Show’s way of calling out the public’s obsession with Joan’s body.

That is what most commentators obsess about when they talk about Joan, and the show exposes the nauseating nature of this mentality by having someone take it to its logical conclusion.

65

No, I don’t think that’s right. IIRC, she went to lunch with Freddy, he brought up the idea of taking meetings, light goes off in her head and she says that she can then go back an leverage that to Don and Freddy says, no, you need to take a bunch of meetings and then leave.

I think, too, the difference between Ken’s help and Freddy’s help is that Ken is saying “I’ll be snapped up and I’ll take you with me as you ride my coat-tails” and Freddy is saying “I can make some calls since I know people and you don’t, but you’ll get in on your own coat-tails”.

66

My recollection was that the conversation went like this:

Sal: What if it was some girl?

Don: It would depend on which girl.

67

Here’s hoping the next big client is a megarich Texan who wants Pete to pack a leather thong and a ball gag and join him on his pig farm.

68

And here’s the thing about Don’s nobility about Joan. He’s coming to her rescue (because he doesn’t think she can say no herself?) and then also seems so disappointed in her that she would be so crass. But in talking to Peggy, he aggrandized himself by saying that she deserved a partnership because she’d been there 13 years. Well, ok, but when exactly, Mr. Draper, were you going to give her the promotion she deserved? If she hadn’t taken advantage of the opportunity, he’d have continued being happy seeing her as the equivalent of a “secretary from Brooklyn who just wants to help out”.

69

Agreed. A very powerful episode. Some outstanding acting by Hamm. So much was said by just the look in his eyes.

70

Lots of really interesting ethical debates stemming off of this one, and even practical ones.

For example, imagine

  1. Joan in Reagan’s U.S.A., financially independent and very respected in the biz, no worries over how she’s going to pay her son’s tuition in a few years (since ex-husband’s not much help) but always having to remember what (in addition to hard work and talent) got her there

vs.

  1. Joan in Reagan’s U.S.A., looking “very good for a woman her age” (late 40s/early 50s) but no longer lusted after by men and having to worry about how to pay for a kid in college and remembering a time she could have been wealthy for one night of “close your eyes and think of England”

Which do you think would have the worst/biggest regret?

Plus, we know Joan well enough by this time to know she’s not just going to take her 5% without a voice in the company; whatever she was given she’s going to completely make the most of for herself and for the company. (And hopefully use to buy paint in a color that’s not rust orange because that apartment needs some variety; baby, this is your home, not a Mexican restaurant in a strip mall.)

71

Yeah, so hard for Don, becoming aware that there is The Other Woman inside each of these women he thinks he knows, and she’s capable of doing things he never would’ve dreamed she’d do. But that’s only because he has no idea what reality is like for each of these women. And his assumptions about women in general just came back to bite him in the ass.

72

He wasn’t “aggrandizing himself.” He was simply trying to smooth over any objections on Peggy’s part. It’s not something you can hold him to.

73

Regarding Peggy’s pact with Ken, she basically flipped her lid when she thought Ken was taking meetings without her, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Ken is at least a little miffed that she just took off, even if she did tell Ken off after the money incident.

I had wondered all season when we were going to see Tchaough again. This was perfect; we already know from last season that he likes poaching Don’s castoffs when he can. I wonder if he’ll try to tempt Ginsberg away.

74

Interestingly, the Chicago Tribune has an interview with Feiffer posted online today.

75

Right. Pete manipulated this whole thing into happening.

Yes, please.

76

True, but he’s also taking credit for it.

77

My recollection is this:

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It had previously been reveled that the company was having cash flow issues. they had three big clients (Heinz, Mohawk & Vicks) and needed a big account like Jaguar.

Pete took the Jaguar guy to a hooker and they lost their advantage in gaining Jaguar. Pete had an incentive to remedy the situation. I don’t recall what position Lane’s friend held. This most recent episode said that the proposal had to be approved by three guys, the factory, marketing and the head of the dealer assn (Joan’s hookup). Lane’s friend was not the head of the dealer association.

Lane needed to money for his son’s tuition and was told that he had to come up with $8000 (2012 $57,000) in back taxes in two days. He was already in dire financial straits personally, for reasons that may not have been explained.

SCDP did not have enough liquid assets for him to temporarily embezzle his way out, so he had the company’s credit extended by $50,000 (2012 $345,000).

Lane told the partners that he had reviewed the books and there was a surplus of $50,000 (same as the credit extension). This would allow everyone to get a xmas bonus, after having gone without for at least one year. Lane wanted the bonuses paid out right away, Don said to wait until the end of the month (it was only the 7th), and Pete said that they would need that money for the Jaguar account.

Lane snuck in late at night and wrote a $7500 (2012 $53,000) company check to himself and forged Don’s name.

Mohawk halted their advertising because there was a machinist’s strike. It was decided that the partners would do without their bonuses, leaving Lane with a huge check that he couldn’t cover, and a portion of the credit extension paid out in employee bonuses.

Pete, unaware of the recent $50,000 extension, suggests the same so that they can pay off Joan. Unable to garner another extension and short on cash, Lane goes behind the partner’s backs and suggests to Joan that she insist on a piece of the pie.

They win the Jaguar account, which would need a lot of capital to put in motion. I assume that Chemical Bank will be sniffing around to have their credit paid back, with interest. The partners have just had their ownership slightly diluted by bring in Joan. They can probably deal with the loss but won’t be happy to find that they had to do so because Lane suggested the offer. If they wanted to drag Peggy back with a big cash offer, or if Ken or Ginsberg ask for raises, they will be pinched as to how much they can offer.

78

I honestly can’t remember, where did we see him before?

79

He was in competition with the firm when they were vying for the Honda account. He was the guy who pretended to be Robert Kennedy calling Don after “the letter” was published. And we was also at the hospital the night Pete’s daughter was born, trying to lure Pete away from SCDP.

80

In all fairness, that was “the boys” who did that and Pete specifically invited Roger along because he knew Roger was a “good time” kind of guy. I’m almost certain it was Roger who said he knew where there was “a party” when the client hinted he didn’t just want a quiet night of dinner and drinks.

I had forgotten about Peggy’s fit when she saw Ken with the publisher. She wasn’t so worried about “a man” or “coattails” helping her then either. If she blows off Ken, it’ll just be a cheap, shitty thing for her to do. Justifying it by noting that Ken checked on her after Don just humiliated her doesn’t make sense. Ken wasn’t being condescending, he just saw his friend get reamed out and wanted to see if she was okay and do the usual “Man, our boss is a jerk, huh?” bit.

Everyone gets to make choices and this is one for Peggy and she’s certainly capable of making either the selfish choice or the “help a friend” choice.