I could imagine a scum Fretful making the post, I can also imagine a town Fretful making the same post. I am going to treat it as a null tell.
Thanks for making me go back and check our discussion. This was my comment on there being a Wolf Scout role in the game.
Then **Fretful Porpentine ** has said that from her POV, the role is too powerful to exist in the game. Comments which were made after this was posted.
You’re wrong. I never stated that I would always vote for the lowest count poster, and you trying to pin me to that is frustrating. Here is precisely what I said:
Get it? What I said was that I would be focusing my attention on and voting for those people who are posting the least, not that I was always going to vote for the person with the lowest post count. To do it strictly by the numbers only would be a stupid strategy. As you suggest above with your Pollux Oil question, some posts are going to have more content than others, so there are calls to be made. If RoOsh posts 3 times with tons of content but Pollux Oil posts 4 tiny posts will little content, are you going to ride me if I vote for Pollux instead of RoOsh? Judging by your actions at the moment, you would.
All I did was anticipate that Blaster was going to post a lot of content, and skip him. I explained it when I did it, and there’s nothing wrong with it, despite your efforts to make it seem so. You said twice above that I didn’t do what I said I was going to do, and so that was suspicious. But that’s not what happened at all, as I hope you will now acknowledge.
I know this is a hypothetical, but if Roosh only posts 3 times during a Day I think the world would be ending. 
I’m kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum here. I feel ShadowFacts’ vote is exactly where he said he would put it. Sure, he threw in a little caveat because he expected Blam! to post more, but I don’t think that’s a big deal. Now, if the Day continues to go by and Blaster Master still only has 1 post nearer to the end, and ShadowFacts still doesn’t vote for him, then I would consider it suspicious.
I’m more interested in OaOW and CatinaSuit, who are starting to pressure ShadowFacts because that seems more like early opportunism than what he did.
Guys, I’m sorry but I was busy this weekend AND I haven’t been feeling well all day. I plan to catch up later tonight and post some more then.
Sorry, I still don’t like it and it still seems really suspicious to me. You are saying you have anticipated a lot of posts from BlaM!, and so are quite willing to go and place a vote on someone else because you are expecting that to occur.
Hold on, this is a game of Mafia and you are quite happy to post that you are expecting something to occur. :dubious:
Well, to each his own. I believe I have explained myself fully. If that does not make you less suspicious, there’s not much else I can do. I notice that you make no mention of my correction to how you (incorrectly) characterized my strategy. Just thought I’d point that out to interested observers.
I do not understand the capital case you are making out of this. Yes, I expect Blaster will be in here to post a lot. OMG! :eek: If I’m wrong, I’ll change my vote. I may change my vote several times. Votes are cheap, and I subscribe to the “vote early, vote often” school of thought. Earlier, in the same post you voted for me with, you also called Nanook out for voting “early”:
Why shouldn’t he have a vote “this early”? IIRC, the first actual post of the game was a vote. I think it was on you, even. Do you think that was “too early”?
Hey, I’ve got an idea - let’s play a little game. Its called the “Blow Me Out of Proportion Game” (Blow Me Game, for short 
) We’ll start with a post of yours from early:
Now, I’ll “Blow You”: You are saying you have anticipated 4 Wolves, and any more would compromise game balance, so are quite willing to strategize accordingly because you are expecting that is the set-up. Hold on, this is a game of Mafia and you are quite happy to post that you are expecting a certain set-up. (<- Note for the sarcasm impaired: I don’t believe that, it’s a sarcastic paraphrase of what CIAS said to me.)
See, it’s fun? I take a totally reasonable post and make it sound unreasonable! Whee!
Sorry, was that too snarky? Ah, well, too late now…
I apologize for not posting the last few days. I got a new computer at home and it took me a bit to get it up and running, and then this morning at work was a total zoo. I expect to be around more in the future.
I’m not understanding this pressure on Shadowfacts. It’s completely consistent with his play as evidenced by his similar early game votes/action in Simpletown. That’s not to say he can’t be scum, just that this justification for voting for him is weak. It comes across as a scummy attempt to drum up a bandwagon early, especially by CatInASuit.
Regarding CIAS,
It doesn’t feel right? I’m sorry I didn’t feel the need to point out that my intial vote would be random the first time I posted. I was in a hurry and just wanted to let everyone know what my personal status was. If you look at Simpletown again, you’ll note that this is what I do in the early game. Random vote early to generate discussion, and then move it later when I feel there’s something more. I subscribe to the “Vote early and move as needed” school of voting, as opposed to the every vote matters school. That being said, I feel that now is a good time for one of those vote moves.
Unvote Roosh
Vote CatInASuit
As far as Dracula goes, as it stands now, if I get bitten overNight, I will certainly come out and say so immediately.
Finally, as far as Fretful goes, there is definately a whiff of Perfect Knowledge Syndrome going on there. Just a whiff right now though, so I prefer my CIAS vote, but something to keep an eye on in the future.
I WAS going to just come in here with no clue (From what we’d accomplished over the weekend- which was nothing really) and just read over and end up voting for the most Vampire loving individual (the one who posted that they would be most in favor of playing both sides). However, we’ve DEF. got some better discussions going on right now, so I’ll cancel on that idea.
One thing off the bat that struck me:
Good for you, Sach. You think she’s Town. That’s been noted. However, you tend to play very logical games (ie: i view you as an analytical player more than an intuitive player), and this just feels like something that could come up again in the future.
I don’t see WHY you feel the need to snuggle **Fretful **like that, as I got the vibe that you were defending her better at times than really felt normal from a townie. I don’t know if its because both of you are possibly scum and you’re protecting her (which seems the LEAST likely to me of the two options), or if perhaps you’re trying to just snuggle up to **Fretful **early in the game. But, it just feels odd to me to see comments indicating Who you feel is Townie and who you don’t trust.
That’s a bad bad road to go down, and I’ll be keeping an eye on that further- as I haven’t played in games with you yet, so I’m gonna have to observe you. But I’ve seen you as a scum and I’ve seen you as a Townie player, with perfect knowledge but I’m just curious right now more so than suspicious.
IE: Why point out that you feel she’s Townie? Why are you defending her?
-That’s a question I’d like to know Sach. And if it’s just how you play, then alright… but be warned your mentality that judge only “actions” not “words” as scummier is a BAD BAD idea. The best plans if scum are simple: What do townies expect? And then to do the opposite of that (as **Cias **Mentioned above paraphrasing me- that is one of my scum rules).
The other debate I’ll need to read over again- the CiaS/Shadowfacts sorta going back and forth thing, I’ll give that a read tonight when I have more time and chime in on my thoughts there as well.
(vote excised for moderator convenience, but it was for ShadowFacts)
Cat -
I get where you’re coming from with this. I don’t like the free pass given to Blam on this, simply because giving out selective free passes seems to me to completely obviate whatever value the “vote-for-lurker” strategy has in the first place
But, given that this is a play that doesn’t make a lot of sense, why is it scummy? If ShadowFacts is scum, what is he trying to achieve by this move? In such a case, if BLAM is fellow scum, then it’s about the worst scum play of all time; if BLAM is a Townie, then it’d be a pointless move on the part of a scummy Shadow’s.
I’ll have more after rehearsal tonight, if I am still at least semi-conscious.
What makes you say I’m being anything but analytical? I think Fretful is Town because I don’t see the logic in a scummy Fretful saying what she said.
This idea of snuggling as the great bane of the Town is ridiculous. Okay, so storyteller exploited everyones trust once. Big deal! Just don’t trust people because they trust you and we’ll be fine. We need to know everyones opinions at every point in the game and if that means “snuggling” someone I think is Town, then so be it.
In fact, I think it would be good for everyone to chime in on the Fretful Porpentine situation. I will also note that you did not express your viewpoint on Fretful Porpentine. Do you you think her statement is scummy? Why on Earth is it better for me or for you or for anyone to keep opinions secret? Wouldn’t it be better to get everyone on record as to how they interpret Fretful Porpentine’s statement? Wouldn’t you like to be able to look at those opinions on Day Five when assessing someones scummitude? Scum want to give out as little opinion as possible. Why are you making things easier for scum?
I absolutely feel that everyone should state their suspicions and non-suspicions of everyone else. If we don’t do that, then how do you propose we find scum?
Because stating my observations is Pro-Town. Keeping my views secret is not.
Ugh. Am I really that unclear? I’m not saying that I don’t expect scum to play Town only that I view Fretful’s statement as difficult to manufacture. I don’t hold actions above words. I state that scum mimicking town actions is easier to do than mimicking town words.
Hell no. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m not going to give the Werewolves a clue to what I’m thinking until it really becomes necessary. If there’s a bandwagon building on some player and I think it’s based on bad reasoning, I’ll say so. If I’ve been keeping an eye on some player long enough to build a strong case against them, I’ll lay it out. Until then, I’m keeping my opinions to myself.
The other side of that coin is that scum won’t have to supply opinions either. When I was scum I really didn’t want to state my opinion of someone, especially someone who was also scum.
That’s a good point, but if you think someone is scum, you can always press that person for an opinion. Insisting that everyone share is overkill. And it also doesn’t impress me that you volunteered an opinion about another player’s status, since you chose which player to talk about.
Honestly? I don’t think anyone has pinged my radar re: scumminess.
I’m not sure how I feel about telling everyone if I get bitten, though. That may seem anti-Town, but I don’t think it’s as simple as the you’re with us or against us stuff that Roosh is pushing–a little too hard, IMHO.
Fair enough.
So, WF Tomba, what is your opinion of Fretful Porpentine? What is your interpretation of her “no scout” opinion?
This statement is a +1 on the ping-o-meter. Why state at this stage of the game that no one seems scummy yet? There isn’t enough information this early to be gleaning much scumminess from. Until now. In my opinion, this sort of statement has been a scum tell in most of the games I’ve played. I’d love to hear opinions from others.
This seems really odd to me–I just said no one seemed scummy because of the lack of information. I think your picking up on something non existent is a scum tell.
I think Fretful Porpentine has an S/17 chance of being scum, where S=the number of scum. Her no-scout opinion did not say anything to me one way or the other about her alignment.
I was going to write a post on a similar note. But I, too, detect a bit of defending where defense is, at best, blind (for townsfolk).
Thus, I’ll vote sachertorte