Mafia: Cecilvania [Game Over]

The Game Room
261

[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]

I’m not sure how I feel about telling everyone if I get bitten, though. That may seem anti-Town, but I don’t think it’s as simple as the you’re with us or against us stuff that Roosh is pushing–a little too hard, IMHO.
[/QUOTE]

Why? If it’s not as simple as that, then you should be able to explain it. I can see absolutely no pro-Town reason to not tell immediately. If you can, by all means share it, because as is this post reads as quite suspicious to me.

I mean, honestly: “I’m not sure I’m willing to tell if I’m bitten. I have no reason for saying this, though. And I’m not saying I won’t - I’m just saying I’m not sure. So if I do tell, that’s perfectly consistent. And if I don’t tell, but instead save the revelation for when I’m on the third step up to the gallows, that’s perfectly consistent, too. See, I want to keep my options open.”

So will you give a reason for your reluctance to reveal if bitten?

262

Except, you know, I don’t know if scum would really be so brazen as to buck popular opinion that blatantly. Crap. Ah, Wine-in-Front-of-Me, my old friend. It’s so good to see you once again.

263

Well, I just think that I’d want to win as a vampire or as a townie.

264

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Except, you know, I don’t know if scum would really be so brazen as to buck popular opinion that blatantly. Crap. Ah, Wine-in-Front-of-Me, my old friend. It’s so good to see you once again.
[/QUOTE]

I think I agree, Story, that the Scum wouldn’t do that sort of thing… But a sensitive Vampire would (where’s Darth Sensitive and Molefan when you need 'em?).
Keep that in mind, Story- just like last game. Sure there’s scum to be found, but who knows what else goes bump in the night?

265

Day 1 Vote Count (as of Post 264)
ShadowFacts-2: CatInASuit, OAOW
CatInASuit-1: Nanook
Koldanar-1: Darth Sensitive
Blaster Master-1: WF Tomba
Hockey Monkey-1: ShadowFacts
Fretful Porpentine-1: storyteller
sachertorte-1: DiggitCamara

Yet to Vote: Blaster Master, sachertorte, RoOsh, Pollux Oil, Koldanar, Hockey Monkey, Fretful Porpentine, Hal Briston, Freudian Slit

266

[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
Well, I just think that I’d want to win as a vampire or as a townie.
[/QUOTE]

See, it’s statements like this that make me suspicious. Now I’m going to have to keep an eye on you. I understand that not everybody subscribes to the “you’re either with us or against us” philosophy, and I also understand that there might be more to Dracula and the vampires than we know.

However, you’re openly admitted that IF we do know everything there is to know about Dracula and the vampires, you’d keep your options open and perhaps try to win as a vampire. Which means the entire game you’ll have to be on vampire watch, at least in my perspective.

[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Except, you know, I don’t know if scum would really be so brazen as to buck popular opinion that blatantly.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree. Scum have a very good reason to be that brazen. You see, if Dracula sees tasty Freudian Slit over there expressing possible interest in being a vampire, the count will put a tick mark next to her as a possible bitee. Maybe not now, but somewhere down the line when Drac wants a few cohorts. If she’s scum, why not tempt Drac into biting into a morsel that will kill him?

Of course, there’s also the possibility that there’s a super-secret pro-town role that will also kill Drac if he bites into them. Who knows. Sigh. So here’s my thinking:

At best: Freudian Slit is a super-secret pro-town role that has the ability to kill Dracula if she gets bitten, and she’s trying to lure him into biting her.
At neutral: Freudian Slit is your average jane townsperson that is open to the idea of being a vampire, so we’ll have to keep watch on her for possible behavior changes/anti-town.
At worst: Freudian Slit is scum trying to lure Dracula into biting her, or is Dracula herself.

Now that I’ve successfully blown any possible covert plans out of the water:

FOS Freudian Slit

267

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
What makes you say I’m being anything but analytical? I think Fretful is Town because I don’t see the logic in a scummy Fretful saying what she said.
[/QUOTE]

See, there’s a difference though. You came out rather strongly I felt with Fretful. If you said JUST this above that’d have been fine with me. However, your initial posts come off with you saying: “Nothing has been proven for Ms. Fretful Porpentine; but my opinion is I think she is Town.”
That’s just way stronger language then I’d put anything on a DAY ONE. And the EARLY Part of Day 1. The fact that you find her Townie so quickly with almost no REAL discussion was odd. Okay- she did one thing, and that’s all it took for you to assume a Town motive? That’s why the analytical was mentioned by me- you seem like a CAREFUL Player. A PARANOID player. The fact that you came out swinging so trusting of a player so EARLY in the game is what got to me. Because your first sentence of post 232 was all you really needed to comment on. But the rest of the message was really just extra, and it really puzzled me. Because when I play this game- EVERYONE’s a suspect, and I don’t look for reasons to find indications of towniness in people. I look for who’s MORE of a suspect than others. Your behavior just puzzled me, as it felt REALLY premature.

[QUOTE=sachertorte]

In fact, I think it would be good for everyone to chime in on the Fretful Porpentine situation. I will also note that you did not express your viewpoint on Fretful Porpentine*. Do you you think her statement is scummy? Why on Earth is it better for me or for you or for anyone to keep opinions secret? Wouldn’t it be better to get everyone on record as to how they interpret Fretful Porpentine’s statement? Wouldn’t you like to be able to look at those opinions on Day Five when assessing someones scummitude? Scum want to give out as little opinion as possible. Why are you making things easier for scum?
[/QUOTE]

This is a bunch of useless questions, I feel. I think that spewing out “Trust lists” or extraneous data is EASILY Manipulated by Scum. Sure if you’re going to the Gallows and you’re town- you should SING like a birdy- tell us who you trust/distrust THEN, but just having EVERYONE say this sorta thing Especially EARLY in a game just creates a massive diarrhea of posts, and it gets easy to lose sight of scum.
In my opinion- Scum don’t lurk- maybe only 1 of them really does that, the rest tend to blend into the middle with one or two high posters- They LAYER themselves. And giving them useless things to talk about and manipulate is just not my cup of tea. I dislike the idea though of just EVERYONE spewing information out- because get this: Townie’s don’t know which info dumps to trust, but the SCUM do. So it makes it easier for them to manipulate us by WIFOM arguments, framing players, or simply helping to figure out how best to bus one of their own. I don’t like everyone talking- I’d rather have the suspects who are up for being lynched talk, they’re the ones we need to hear from. The others should chime in and contribute. But they should be helpful about it and just just doing what scum would do- post to fill the quota and blend amongst us.

[QUOTE=sachertorte]

I absolutely feel that everyone should state their suspicions and non-suspicions of everyone else. If we don’t do that, then how do you propose we find scum?
[/QUOTE]
Same way we’ve been doing it WITHOUT the use of silly trust lists (that’s what your suggestion feels like to me). We check voting histories, we use what resources we’ve got to us in terms of special roles, and we check motivations and actions- who ACTS scummy and Who’s been acting Anti-Town or who’s been acting inconsistent. (And by Act, I do mean posting. I view the dialog as action- ie: a bit of roleplaying of the citizens of the town getting together and talking about ideas. That’s what threw me off initially with your take on Action vs. Talk- see below’s note on that).

[QUOTE=sachertorte]

Because stating my observations is Pro-Town. Keeping my views secret is not.

[/QUOTE]

This is where you and I will have to disagree I suppose. Just on the merits of play style. I agree with the former- sharing observations and stating them is DEFINITELY Pro-Town. However, it’s just an action- I expect a majority of scum to do the same as well- especially since this is a veteran’s game. So no newbie tell searching really from me this time around.
However, as **Storyteller **will easily tell you with a sigh. I disagree with the latter. Maybe not your views, but it all depends on the Role. Playing your cards close to your chest- that’s fine with me… Until you’re a suspect- then you should start talking a bit more freely. Until then play your role to the best of your abilities. That’s not a tell to me.

[QUOTE=sachertorte]

Ugh. Am I really that unclear? I’m not saying that I don’t expect scum to play Town only that I view Fretful’s statement as difficult to manufacture. I don’t hold actions above words. I state that scum mimicking town actions is easier to do than mimicking town words.
[/QUOTE]

This was actually helpful in clarifying your position better. However, I don’t see how that gives someone a “More townie” than others card basically.
*My opinion on Fretful since you DID ask:
I didn’t care about her statement- it didn’t phase me as being here or there- I could see a Townie or a scum making such a move (Story- I believe you asked, why would a scum bother to bring out such a question even if THERE was a scout in the game
-in my opinion, I wouldn’t rule out the idea of Scum with Blasters (remember those things?), so perhaps the person SAYING it isn’t the most likely person to be a scout- but what if the scout’s cut off from the group? Or there’s a role that gets its value in being lynched. If I were scum- then those would be great places to start spreading radical ideas and suggestions, and it’d send up a nice little flag to someone else saying “lookatme!”). So Fret’s post didn’t give me ANY reassuring feelings to her towniness. But they didn’t blare scummy either. So I didn’t really notice it as much, and rather- I wanted to see who REACTED to the posts.
And we’ve certainly had some reactions on both sides of the issue of scummy vs. Townie. That’s been the more interesting stuff for me to look at= How people REACTED to statements that I didn’t really notice- ie: which way are THEY seeing it, and why didn’t I see it that way sorta deals…

268

Ugh.

NETA: That should be "At neutral: Freudian Slit is your average jane townsperson that is open to the idea of being a vampire, so we’ll have to keep watch on her for possible anti-town behavior changes.

I don’t know why I put anti-town behind a backslash. I blame it being late.

269

Oily- I like your thoughts but I feel like I’m of the mind to vote someone trying to find SCUM, and not trying to kill off the proVampire sympathizers just yet (though, you did have my earlier mindset, i just changed it at the start of reading this day’s posts). And I certainly agree now- FS needs to be watched for inconsistencies now- of course, you’re all on that list anyways to begin with for me, so it’s just been noted, that’s all.

I will however based on my previously lengnthy post and put my money where my suspicions are and
Vote Sach
It’s early, but since I AM finding you oddly suggestions and I did mention my feelings towards how you’re playing as striking me odd (see first paragraphs of mine above post), I will be putting my money where my mouth is. For now.

270

Hey, POily- another thought struck me- She [FS] COULD be a Werewolf trying to get rid of the Vampire competition early too.

:Pulls out the old WIFOM glass:
There ya go, Dr. Acula… Suck on that BIFOM for a while. :smiley:

271

[QUOTE=RoOsh]
Hey, POily- another thought struck me- She [FS] COULD be a Werewolf trying to get rid of the Vampire competition early too.

:Pulls out the old WIFOM glass:
There ya go, Dr. Acula… Suck on that BIFOM for a while. :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

BIFOM? That’s a new one…

272

[QUOTE=RoOsh]
Oily- I like your thoughts but I feel like I’m of the mind to vote someone trying to find SCUM, and not trying to kill off the proVampire sympathizers just yet (though, you did have my earlier mindset, i just changed it at the start of reading this day’s posts). And I certainly agree now- FS needs to be watched for inconsistencies now- of course, you’re all on that list anyways to begin with for me, so it’s just been noted, that’s all.
[/QUOTE]

You might have missed it, but in my post I said:

[QUOTE=Pollux Oil]
I disagree. Scum have a very good reason to be that brazen. You see, if Dracula sees tasty Freudian Slit over there expressing possible interest in being a vampire, the count will put a tick mark next to her as a possible bitee. Maybe not now, but somewhere down the line when Drac wants a few cohorts. If she’s scum, why not tempt Drac into biting into a morsel that will kill him?
[/QUOTE]

Bolding mine.

To be clear, I’m not just suspicious of FS (free safety? heh.) for her kindness to vampires, but also because she could be scum trying to lure Drac into a trap.

273

[QUOTE=WF Tomba]
I think Fretful Porpentine has an S/17 chance of being scum, where S=the number of scum. Her no-scout opinion did not say anything to me one way or the other about her alignment.
[/QUOTE]

This one is buzzing me pretty bad. Very wishy washy.

FoS WF Tomba

274

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
Well, to each his own. I believe I have explained myself fully. If that does not make you less suspicious, there’s not much else I can do. I notice that you make no mention of my correction to how you (incorrectly) characterized my strategy. Just thought I’d point that out to interested observers.

I do not understand the capital case you are making out of this. Yes, I expect Blaster will be in here to post a lot. OMG! :eek: If I’m wrong, I’ll change my vote. I may change my vote several times. Votes are cheap, and I subscribe to the “vote early, vote often” school of thought. Earlier, in the same post you voted for me with, you also called Nanook out for voting “early”:

Why shouldn’t he have a vote “this early”? IIRC, the first actual post of the game was a vote. I think it was on you, even. Do you think that was “too early”?

Hey, I’ve got an idea - let’s play a little game. Its called the “Blow Me Out of Proportion Game” (Blow Me Game, for short :smiley: ) We’ll start with a post of yours from early:

Now, I’ll “Blow You”: You are saying you have anticipated 4 Wolves, and any more would compromise game balance, so are quite willing to strategize accordingly because you are expecting that is the set-up. Hold on, this is a game of Mafia and you are quite happy to post that you are expecting a certain set-up. (<- Note for the sarcasm impaired: I don’t believe that, it’s a sarcastic paraphrase of what CIAS said to me.)

See, it’s fun? I take a totally reasonable post and make it sound unreasonable! Whee!

Sorry, was that too snarky? Ah, well, too late now…
[/QUOTE]

<outofgame>
I don’t remember you being this sarky in **Pleonast’s ** conspiracy game. Ooooo, Ooooo, playing style has changed it’s a scumtell. :smiley:
</oog>

storyteller put it best: I don’t like the free pass handed out to BlaM!.

You actually said

*Rather than randomly voting for people, my Day One method is to try to make the lurkiest players participate more by voting for them. *

*I plan to do what I generally do on Day One, and that is to place my vote on those posting the least. *

Then you promptly gave BlaM! a free pass and voted for the next lowest poster.

I guess this is YMMV. Others seem to think you are perfectly justified in what you did. Personally, I don’t.

As to why you did it if scummy? Not sure. Most people are writing it off as far too obvious for a scum to try and pull off. For me, it is using the “lynch lurkers reasoning” in a game where lurkers will be killed off anyway.

You say that you are using it to prod lurkers. Umm, it doesn’t appear to have worked yet. Me, I’m using mine to get discussion going, seems to have worked for me. :wink:

Anyway, enough of this, time to find someone else to pick on.

unvote ShadowFacts

275

[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore]

I’m not understanding this pressure on Shadowfacts. It’s completely consistent with his play as evidenced by his similar early game votes/action in Simpletown. That’s not to say he can’t be scum, just that this justification for voting for him is weak. It comes across as a scummy attempt to drum up a bandwagon early, especially by CatInASuit.

[/QUOTE]

But not consistent with how I remember his play from Conspiracy. Justification for any votes on Day 1 is weak. Why is mine weaker than any random vote that may be placed. I have provided my reasoning as to why I think it is scummy. You may not agree, but then that’s your choice.

[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore]

It doesn’t feel right? I’m sorry I didn’t feel the need to point out that my intial vote would be random the first time I posted. I was in a hurry and just wanted to let everyone know what my personal status was. If you look at Simpletown again, you’ll note that this is what I do in the early game. Random vote early to generate discussion, and then move it later when I feel there’s something more. I subscribe to the “Vote early and move as needed” school of voting, as opposed to the every vote matters school. That being said, I feel that now is a good time for one of those vote moves.

Unvote Roosh
Vote CatInASuit

As far as Dracula goes, as it stands now, if I get bitten overNight, I will certainly come out and say so immediately.

Finally, as far as Fretful goes, there is definately a whiff of Perfect Knowledge Syndrome going on there. Just a whiff right now though, so I prefer my CIAS vote, but something to keep an eye on in the future.
[/QUOTE]

Umm, is that it. A random vote to generate discussion. What discussion? Hello, a follow up on that would be nice. Oh wait, it’s random. You aren’t going to follow it up. Instead, you decide to switch and OMGUS vote me instead. Also is this a cheap vote that may be moved later or a serious vote where you actually think I am scummy?

Welcom to my scum list alongside **ShadowFacts ** and Fretful Porpentine.

Also, as an aside, all these people coming out and saying. Oh, I would definitely tell on Dracula if I get bitten. Balony!

I really don’t think it is going to be that easy or simple somehow. It would be nice if it was, but I guess we will find out any twist in due course.

276

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
Well, it’s been a really quiet weekend, so that makes a post-count analysis less useful, but it’s all I’ve got right now, so here are the numbers of game-related posts so far, including this post. Two comments:

  • I’ve made my own calls on what counts as game-related vs. fluff, YMMV
  • I started the count at post 139

[/QUOTE]

Just purely out of my own self interest.

What do you count as game-related posts and what do you describe as fluff??

277

Here’s another question for people to answer/throw brickbats at me/discuss:

If we have a chance to lynch Dracula or a Wolf ToDay or Tomorrow: Which one should we choose?

Opinions are, as always, welcome.

278

[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
Here’s another question for people to answer/throw brickbats at me/discuss:

If we have a chance to lynch Dracula or a Wolf ToDay or Tomorrow: Which one should we choose?

Opinions are, as always, welcome.
[/QUOTE]

If we knew for sure I would say do Dracula first - it removes one scum threat entirely.

We couldn’t even coerce him into being a “biting detective” as he risks death by detecting in this manner.

279

Wolf.

If we have dracula pinned down along with a wolf, kill the wolf. Dracula isn’t a threat till the endgame, and if we can convince him to let us know who he’s biting, we’ll have that biting detective. Why the do we care if he dies OaOW, we want him dead eventually anyway.

But reducing the wolves immediately is good.

280

[QUOTE=Darth Sensitive]
This one is buzzing me pretty bad. Very wishy washy.

FoS WF Tomba
[/QUOTE]

Not at all wishy-washy. I couldn’t possibly have been more precise.

On lynching lurkers: I’m in favor of it, even more so because of the posting quota. Lurkers who get replaced after a few days are even more annoying than regular lurkers.

On Dracula: Dracula, if you bite me, I’ll turn you in. Fangs off!