[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
Here’s another question for people to answer/throw brickbats at me/discuss:
If we have a chance to lynch Dracula or a Wolf ToDay or Tomorrow: Which one should we choose?
Opinions are, as always, welcome.
[/QUOTE]
Right now, I think our priority should be lynching wolves. After all, there’s always a chance that Dracula self-destructs.
That changes when there are only 4 or 5 players left.
[QUOTE=Darth Sensitive]
Wolf.
If we have dracula pinned down along with a wolf, kill the wolf. Dracula isn’t a threat till the endgame, and if we can convince him to let us know who he’s biting, we’ll have that biting detective. Why the do we care if he dies OaOW, we want him dead eventually anyway.
But reducing the wolves immediately is good.
[/QUOTE]
hey dracula, bite so and so or we will lynch you. Not much of a threat if biting so and so would kill him any way, especially as his team dies with him (not the team mebers, just the team). As Dracula would have no reason to play ball, I would say kill him if we know who he is, even if we also know a wolf. We can always do the wolf the next day. If of course its the last wolf, then lets do the wolf, cos that removes the NK.
We would kill the wolf first. Dracula is biting people, but not killing them, and there is a chance that any bite he makes is a self-destruct. We don’t need to worry about Dracula until mid to late game. A known wolf should be dealt with hastily.
[QUOTE=RoOsh]
<snip>
That’s why the analytical was mentioned by me- you seem like a CAREFUL Player. A PARANOID player.
[/QUOTE]
Your characterization of me is not correct.
I have played in three games:
I’d also refer you to the Batman Forbidden thread were I quite happily declared brewha (I think it was brewha) as Town on Day One (I think it was Day One), based on one statement he made.
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers]
hey dracula, bite so and so or we will lynch you. Not much of a threat if biting so and so would kill him any way, especially as his team dies with him (not the team mebers, just the team). As Dracula would have no reason to play ball, I would say kill him if we know who he is, even if we also know a wolf. We can always do the wolf the next day. If of course its the last wolf, then lets do the wolf, cos that removes the NK.
[/QUOTE]
Working backward on my responses today, starting with this.
I (conditionally) disagree with the above.
First of all, the question, “who to lynch, a certain Dracula or a certain Wolf?”, is sort of a pointless one: the real answer at this point in the game is it depends. Where do we stand in the game? How many mislynches have we used? Do we have sufficient information to develop a usable guess as to the number of scum? Is it toDay, where Dracula has not bitten anyone at all, as CiAS suggests in his original question? Is it Day Six, when Dracula could be on the verge of winning? A blanket policy in this case is worthless; it will always depend on circumstances.
But more broadly, we (probably - there’s no guarantee that Dracula exists) have two types of enemies here. One type of enemy - the Wolves - can only die by being lynched (that we know of). As far as we know, we have no Vigs, Serial Killers, Bombs, or Crazy Townies to take out Wolves without lynching them. We’re going to get a certain number of chances to lynch in this game, and three times we must lynch scum or we lose.
Our second enemy - Dracula - can die in a number of ways. The Wolves could kill him. Once he’s revealed, they definitely won’t, though. But Drac could also die of food poisoning, and since in order to win he will eventually have to bite, that’s a significant chance (I 'd guess it starts at somewhere between 20%-35%, roughly, and goes up from there).
Since there are non-lynch ways to kill Dracula, but no non-lynch ways to kill Wolves, I’d say that all other things being equal it makes much more sense to save our lynches for the Wolves (unless we are very near the endgame, and suspect that Dracula may be near to a win himself).
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
But not consistent with how I remember his play from Conspiracy. Justification for any votes on Day 1 is weak. Why is mine weaker than any random vote that may be placed. I have provided my reasoning as to why I think it is scummy. You may not agree, but then that’s your choice.
[/quote]
Obviously I disagree. To my mind there is a difference between a weak vote and a random vote. A weak vote can possibly be scummy, since it’s easy to back off or disavow it later.
Some people respond to random votes, some people don’t. If it generates discussion, great! If it doesn’t, no big deal, that probably means something else came up to discuss instead. In this case, it both generated a little discussion, though not from the person that the vote was placed on, and we had some other things to discuss. OMGUS? I disagree, and in fact feel that that phrase is starting to get thrown around a little too much. Not every vote from someone you mention in passing is an OMGUS.
And I both think you are scummier than anyone else at the present time, and am fully prepared to move it later if the situation calls out for it, like a role claim or someone else coming across as much scummier. It’s Day 1, nothing is set in stone.
Considering my track record of having scum accuse me of being scum, you’ll pardon me if I’m not overly concerned.
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore]
A weak vote can possibly be scummy, since it’s easy to back off or disavow it later.
[/QUOTE]
As opposed to a random vote, which you yourself backed off very shortly after you made it?
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
If we have a chance to lynch Dracula or a Wolf ToDay or Tomorrow: Which one should we choose?
[/QUOTE]
Today or Tomorrow? The wolf clearly. They are far more of a threat to us in the early game. Dracula is only a threat in the later parts of the game. Obviously, the closer we get to the endgame, the more likely it is that we’ll need to kill the bat first.
This is wrong I’m pretty sure. Once we kill the last wolf, the game will end. If Dracula is still alive at that point, there is a very real possibilty of a loss to his vamp team.
[QUOTE=RoOsh]
I think that spewing out “Trust lists” or extraneous data is EASILY Manipulated by Scum.
[/QUOTE]
How is this so? You make this statement without justification. The mantra of being manipulated by scum is predicated on allowing yourself to be manipulated. Scum used trust lists to good effect once. That is because Town misused the data. Force scum to take a stance on something and force them to justify that stance. The position taken is not an indication of scumness, but the justification is.
Just because you say scum can “easily” manipulate data doesn’t mean it is true. Please illustrate how this easy manipulation will occur.
I’m advocating more talking; suppression of opinion is a detriment to the Town.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
We’re going to get a certain number of chances to lynch in this game, and three times we must lynch scum or we lose.
[/QUOTE]
As someone who was riding Fretful Porpentine rather hard for “Perfect Information Syndrome,” I find your statement that we must lynch three scum or we lose rather odd. Or should I say oddly well-informed.
How do you know that we need to lynch scum three times?
[QUOTE=sachertorte]
How do you know that we need to lynch scum three times?
[/QUOTE]
Should read:
“three to five”
The rest of the point stands as is.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
As opposed to a random vote, which you yourself backed off very shortly after you made it?
[/QUOTE]
Meh, I knew I shouldn’t post while actively working. I meant to address this and forgot as I bounced around.
A random vote is placed with no real intentions of leaving it for any length of time. It is placed, does it’s job during that Day or not, and is removed well before the end of the Day in order to place a real vote. Sometimes a random vote will turn into a real vote, but if that is the case it should be spelled out that this is the case. A random vote should never be on at the end of the Day barring something unexpected IRL, nor should it be placed any time after Day 1.
A weak vote on the other hand, is a serious vote that is placed with weak justification. This can be used by scum to run away from their voting record either later in the Day or in later Days, to try and avoid the implications of having voted for a townie.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
snip
We’re going to get a certain number of chances to lynch in this game, and three times we must lynch scum or we lose.
snip
[/QUOTE]
How exactly do you know how many scum we have to lynch?
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore]
This is wrong I’m pretty sure. Once we kill the last wolf, the game will end. If Dracula is still alive at that point, there is a very real possibilty of a loss to his vamp team.
[/QUOTE]
The rules say that we don’t win until we’ve killed all Wolves and all Vampires. (I assume Dracula counts as a Vampire!) The Vampires win if there are no more Wolves and Vampires outnumber us. So if it were down to us and a minority of Vampires, the game is not over since no one has met their win condition. At that point it becomes almost* a typical recruiting Mafia game, with town trying to destroy all scum and scum trying to outnumber town.
*The difference is that in this case, regardless of the number of scum, killing the lead scum causes an instant win for town.
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore]
A weak vote on the other hand, is a serious vote that is placed with weak justification. This can be used by scum to run away from their voting record either later in the Day or in later Days, to try and avoid the implications of having voted for a townie.
[/QUOTE]
Seeing as I have no problems with my previous vote for **ShadowFacts ** or people saying I voted that way, I guess that doesn’t make it a weak vote then.
On preview: Oh storyteller!, you want to tell the rest of the town something 
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Should read:
“three to five”
The rest of the point stands as is.
[/QUOTE]
hmmmm a slip maybe?
unvote Shadowfacts
vote storyteller
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore]
This is wrong I’m pretty sure. Once we kill the last wolf, the game will end. If Dracula is still alive at that point, there is a very real possibilty of a loss to his vamp team.
[/QUOTE]
Really? I would assume that if we nail the last wolf whilst Drac is still around, that the game would continue, only now town would be hunting Drac. Any vampiores at that point could guarantee being on the winning team by turning him in and reverting to townhood.
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
Just purely out of my own self interest.
What do you count as game-related posts and what do you describe as fluff??
[/QUOTE]
I have a pretty low bar for game-related posts. As an example, take a look at the top of the game, posts 140 (by OAOW) and 141 (by you). I counted 140 as game-related for OAOW, but did not count 141 for you. OAOW doesn’t do anything except throw a random vote on you and a joke, but that’s still a real vote, and is game-related. Your response is just a joke, with nothing else game-related, so I didn’t count it. Does that help?
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
<outofgame>
I don’t remember you being this sarky in Pleonast’s conspiracy game. Ooooo, Ooooo, playing style has changed it’s a scumtell.
</oog>
[/QUOTE]
Well, you must be forgetting my massive ongoing battle with Idle Thoughts in that game, each of us utterly (and mistakenly) believing the other was scum :smack: I don’t think I’ve ever been snarkier than that.
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
You actually said
*Rather than randomly voting for people, my Day One method is to try to make the lurkiest players participate more by voting for them.
I plan to do what I generally do on Day One, and that is to place my vote on those posting the least.*
Then you promptly gave BlaM! a free pass and voted for the next lowest poster.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know why you are quoting me back to me here - I already quoted these very things to you to explain how you misrepresented my strategy (and, apparently, continue to do so). Do you still believe these quotes say I am always going to vote for the lowest-count player?
I notice also that you did not answer any of my questions about your voting issues (see post #247 if you forget what I am referring to). You ask a lot of questions, but don’t answer too many.
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers]
Really? I would assume that if we nail the last wolf whilst Drac is still around, that the game would continue, only now town would be hunting Drac. Any vampiores at that point could guarantee being on the winning team by turning him in and reverting to townhood.
[/QUOTE]
It seems I was off slightly in my original post. The game will not necessarily end right then, though it is a very real possibilty. I still think killing Dracula is the correct play, since there’s no real way to know how many vamps are running around.
This appears to conflict with the posted rules.
Mods, please clarify the win conditions and explain what would happen if Wolves are eliminated and a minority of Vampires remain!