why didn’t you realize this when he FIRST posted his role? It had been discussed at the start of the Day.
Did the clarification by him REALLY change things THAT much? As i pointed out, he didn’t really say ANYTHING new, he just said he’d be willing to die a bit more.
I wanted an actual plan as to how to proceed. His post there clarified my thinking. I posted my view of tomorrow already.
Another theory for today for people to ponder over concerning game setup.
This was sparked by storyteller’s comments on the number of lynches and on looking at J Sexton’s formula.
Personally, I think we may be thinking about this the wrong way as a veteran’s game.
To me a veteran’s game is stripped down to the essentials to allow gameplay to come forward. This means that instead of lots of power roles or even multiples of roles, we have hardly any. I was pondering having only three powerful scum before **storyteller ** slipped but that made me go and see if it was feasible. If it is the case, I would hazard a guess that they are one of each, a Godfather, a Scout and an Alchemist.
There would also be one Dracula leaving 13 town against them.
In order for it to be fair, it would leave us with probably only a Doc and a Constable or a set of masons with at least 10 vanilla townies to provide cover.
To me, that’s what this game is beginning to feel like. I don’t think we are going to see any extra roles, special abilities or other wild advantages coming forth. This means that the only real method of outing scum is through their actions and not through the power roles.
Comments anyone?
OAOW: Is there any reason why you appear to have completely dropped **ShadowFacts ** from your list of players who need to be looked at?
You were quite happy to vote on him after I voted.
So what’s changed?
The list I have posted is the people who were voting me at the time. I am suspicious of the speed I picked up votes. This is not to say that everyone else in the game is innocent and pure…
I’m off to do a re-read. I will post my thoughts and feelings on the Day in a bit. That way if i do the hemp fandango, at least my opinions will be on record.
OK Big post time.
High points of Day 1. I will put the milestones in italics, and my thoughts/supposition in normal
*Me and CIAS start a dicussion on how to proceed if there is a Scout
CIAS weakly attacks me for having proposed town power roles should be open, when I hadn’t actually stated that, had just asked for town’s thoughts on the topic
FP - bets there is no Scout
sach - suggests Scout isn’t that powerful a role as wolves already know who is ton/non town with exception of Drac
Shadow disagrees, Scout helps wolves nail down town power roles much quicker
sach agrees with Shadow’s reasoning
story is troubled by Fretful’s assertion of no scout, how can Fretful be so sure
At this point the Drac discussion kicks in
notably Freudian is the only one who outright states that he thinks vamped townies would keep quiet to hedge their bets.
story - advocates a policy where town agree to fess up as soon as bitten *
remember this for later
*Shadow makes his post count analysis, but votes Hockey over Blaster due to expected content from Blaster
CIAS attacks him for this, I agree and join in*
Now my reasons for this were 3 fold
I do not think the lynch lurkers reasoning is useful in this particular game. There is already a mechanism in place to force people to post. If they don’t get the requisite number of posts in a day they are gine anyway
I agreed with CIAS’s reasoning
I wanted to see who would join the wagon, how shadow would defend, who would defend him and whyk, and if the wagon got going who would jump off it and when. Basically I thought it would be a good vehicle to get some info.
I do not strongly believe shadow to be scum, nor do I strongly think he’s town which is why he’s not on the list i posted earlier to answer your question CIAS.
sach makes a case for Fretful being town, as he cannot see why scum would have made a no scout claim
I find this odd. It is very WIFOM. Is it scum sach playing adopt a townie? Not a strong read, but I thought it was worth noting.
Shadow now gets defensive, and pushes the lynch lurkers reasoning again
On the one hand, he only had 2 votes, so over defensive, but on the other hand, town should efend themselves vigorously, so not much to conclude from this.
story votes Fretful, citing perfect knowledge on the scout claim
Nanook votes CIAS
The only reason I have noted this is that Nanook specifically removed his random vote to place this vote, but gave no real case as to why he was voting CIAS, which seems odd.
story defends shadow
sach again pushes the Fretful as town theory, due to the no scout claim
I’m really not getting the certainty that Fretful is town due to this one fact.
Diggit votes sach, suspicion of sach as scum playing adopt a townie
valid suspcion on diggit’s part I would say
story reiterates that townies should fess up immediately if bitten
again lets remember this for later
*story now makes the 3 lynches slip and is called on it. votes start to accrue.
story soft claims and gives a time by when he will have claimed*
I didn’t like this. The slip was serious enough that he was not going to be let off the hook on a ‘trust me’ basis. Why say you will claim in 3 hours or whatever? I saw it as scum buying time to polish the claim
*story claims very quickly after my post. *
He doesn’t just claim cop. He also immediately begins building the excuse for why he will have no result tomorrow. He also claims he is at danger from Drac attack.
The last one is very very interesting. Twice already today story has stated town should immediately fess up when bitten, so why is him being bitten a bad thing? Surely it is a good thing as it would get rid of Drac then and there. This really does not add up.
At this point I also call for no counter claim. I think this is pretty obviously the correct way forward.
*story then makes a post which makes a case on my pursuing him marking me out as scum.
story proposes lynching him tomorrow*
I actually agreed with his reasoning for postponing his lynch until tomorrow, as it guarantees info for the town. We will either, hit a scum in story, find out there is definitely an alchemist, or get a inv result. If we lynch him today we either hit scum or get nothing. This is why I unvoted.
Blaster says I look scummy if story doesn’t come up scum. Actually he says if story doesn’t come up wolf.
Interesting on 2 counts. Firstly why did you phrase it as wolf instead of scum? Do you have some reason for knowing he isn’t Dracula?
Also, story coming up cop does not make me scum. Trying to set up a double lynch there Vlad?
Fretful votes me for unvoting
I disagree with his reasoning here, but admit it is valid
*Blaster defends my unvote
Blaster votes me for FOSing him
story votes me
freudian jumps on the wagon with no stated case/reason
sac asks what the case on me is
freudian defends story
diggit accuses sac if being scum cuddling up to a townie
Roosh votes me - he actually gives a lot of reasoning though*
So my list is
story - Yeah I think he’s scum. The vamp thing was the odd one. Why are you worried about being bitten? This would be a good thing wouldn’t it?
Blaster - I’m beginning to think he is pale with pointy teeth
Freudian -just for the wagoning without stated case.
Interesting reading indeed OAOW.
Another thing.
Hal Briston, Hockey Monkey, given the type of Day 1 we are having with plenty of info being displayed and a lot of opinions being put forth, you have both been rather quiet and surprisingly neutral in general.
So what are your opinions of the current events?
Hey, all. Woke up early, so I have about five minutes to make a quick post before I need to leave. And it’s directed at Wanderers, and it concerns the above:
Wanderers: Careful, your scum is showing. In developing your little argument above, you have conveniently left out one of my posts regarding Dracula, which bridges the gap you’re trying to pretend exists.
We don’t want to lynch Dracula. We want Dracula to die on his own. We have a given number of lynches with which to work and using one on Dracula would be a waste. So if I’m Vamped, that is a bad thing. Sure, I’ll confess and we have the ability to lynch him. But every Night that Drac bites a Townie is a Night that he doesn’t bite a Wolf, die, and take the problem off our hands for good.
Was that really all that difficult to figure out?
Clever of you, though, to make that long-ass post and ignore the explanation I’d already given for the the thing about which you wanted to raise suspicion. Especially when I had already said I’d be gone for a while and unable to defend myself.
Yeah, I’m pretty happy with my vote.
Off to LDI Training!
OK I agree that the optimal Drac solution is him biting a wolf, that said,
I would LOVE to lynch Dracula. Any lynch which isn’t a mislynch is a good one in my book. Identifying and eliminating Dracula would be a good thing. Your trying to argue otherwise is odd.
Ok, I’ll agree that any townie getting vamped is a bad thing and yes it would be nice if Dracula decided to off themselves through Wolf poisoning but I do have one question to ask.
What I don’t understand is: Why is lynching Dracula a waste?
Dracula is an anti-town faction preventing the town from winning. How is it not beneficial to lynch Dracula? 
This question is open to all, not just **storyteller ** seeing as he has gone for a goodly while.
The reason I would lynch a wolf before Dracula (if both are exposed and have the seal of God himself as to their death by various holy instrument tendencies) is that barring it being endgame, we have more time to get Dracula on a day when we’re unsure of wolfness. Shrinking the pool of brains available to the scum mean that they get less angles of attack and strategizing at night. I know that as scum in the last two games I felt a whole lot more confident when I had someone to bounce ideas off of on the scum boards.
And, Koldanar - I’ve been less active than I want to be recently. I’m dealing with a new job that completely torpedoes middle of the day reading and posting, so in addition to general life stuff, it’s been more hectic than normal. As a show of good faith I will lay off you and expect you to get talking a bit more.
Unvote Koldanar
WF Tomba - I’m looking harder at you. Wishy washy was the wrong word to describe what you said. I will call it stikingly noncommittal. I know that just about everyone in this game has moved to one side or another of the patented Patented Darth Sensetive Scumometer, and the way that you are carefully not saying anything is moving you into the red.
I’ll work to weigh in on the claim buisness when I get home this evening.
but assuming we have had a townie pipe up they have been bitten and stated that player X is Dracula, would you view a Dracula lynch as a waste of time?
I have an unanswered question from Fretful Porpentine that I would like answered. I would also like to hear from OAOW. After that I’ll review and cast a vote.
I disagree. Pleonast died because of his Day One Bad Idea. Claiming credit for that is like claiming credit for the sun rising in the morning.
I’m not looking to be heroic. And I don’t know that they are worth defending. I didn’t ‘defend’ Fretful because she’s Fretful. I’m not pressing for more reasoning on OAOW because he’s OAOW. I’m acting based on the information at hand. I can only look at the facts and make judgements based on those. As Town, I don’t know anyone is worth defending, so if we adopt a defend only people you know are worth defending, then there will be only one-sided arguments. I say look at both sides of the argument. So far I’ve only ‘defended’ Fretful Porpentine in that I interpret one statement of hers as making me think she is Town.
Regarding OAOW, I’ve been pushing the prosecution of OAOW to state their case explicitly. Voting OAOW and then just saying because he’s acting scummy doesn’t do us squat.
Blaster Master responded with a well composed explicit reasoning for voting OAOW, then I waited for the defense. That is, OAOW’s defense. I had reservations about the OAOW logic (hence, no vote). I could have engaged Blaster Master in further discussion, but I chose not to. I thought it was better for OAOW to have that discussion with Blaster Master. Do you disagree? Do you think I should have engaged Blaster Master with my reservations about his reasoning? Or do you think it better that I wait for OAOW to speak up? In other words, I didn’t want to say I think OAOW was thinking x, y and z. Rather I wanted OAOW to tell us himself what he was thinking.
I theorized the existence of multiple pro-town powerroles in this game thread.
Well then you’re going to hate me a lot this game. I plan on questioning everything as much as possible. We must look at each lynch and state very clearly the reasons why we are lynching that person. Just look back at previous games. In the Forbidden thread we were all WTF? What’s the case? What’s the reason for the lynch? But I’m not just defending; I’m prosecuting as well – just not rabidly. Currently, I have a question posed to Fretful Porpentine, which I would like answered. Also, I’ll point out that several players are playing too clean.
You mean the game I in which I was scum?
What more are you waiting to hear from me? I thought I had posted plenty!
I’ve reviewed the OAOW situation and I’m drawing the conclusion that OAOW’s actions are not discernibly scummy in my opinion. Part of it might be because I had the same initial thoughts as OAOW when storyteller claimed claimable. My feeling was storyteller was going to have to claim and nothing was going to stop that, so I questioned the delay (in my head). I dismissed the scumminess of the delay because I figured making up a false claim wouldn’t be that time consuming.
[New Thought: A secondary scumminess of the delay that I just thought of is the fact that storyteller wouldn’t be available to discuss his roleclaim if he claimed at 5PM. He had rehearsal that night and would be busy all of Wednesday. Do we really think a roleclaim then disappearing until Thursday morning is good for the Town? Now I’m thinking OAOW’s press was a good thing.]
Anyway, I don’t hold OAOW’s pressing storyteller for the claim as bad. storyteller had already hinted that he was a powerrole so I don’t see the downside of OAOW’s pressing.
So that leaves me with Blaster Master’s explanation of OAOW precluding himself from protown reasons for unvoting storyteller. Blaster Master says he will accept two reasons for unvoting storyteller:
OAOW’s unvote post:
OAOW’s is willing to leave storyteller alive for information.
I feel this is an acceptable option #3 for a reason to unvote storyteller.
OAOW does not think storyteller is telling the truth, he does not think lynching him is too risky, but he acknowledges that lynching Tomorrow instead of Today might yield information.
I’m pretty sure I wrote that before reading your response. Sorry.
Quick chime in while I have second: it’s my wife’s birthday and I’m going to taking her out for a bunch of fun stuff today, so I won’t be back until later tonight (EDT).
Oh, and one more thing:
I think my lurker vote on Hockey is looking pretty good right now (and I was right about Blaster, so there! 
) Not that it’s prodded her to de-lurk, unfortunately, but that it was on target. She’s posting just barely enough to stay in the game. I don’t like it.
Our conversation was one of the reasons I took a look at the current lurkers, and yes, you were right about BlaM!. **Hal Briston ** is lurking slightly more than Hockey Monkey, but both of them are seemingly neutrally quiet.
I still think your lurker vote is slightly misguided, but I can understand where you are coming from.
I’m sorry, what was your question again?