Mafia: Conspiracy 2: The Cabal Strikes Back! [Game Over]

The Game Room
261

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
Never did. I’ve become fond of latching on to them in majority-lynch scenarios. Past vote analysis isn’t nearly as effective as past-post analysis, in my opinion. And a bandwagon is a great way to ensure a lynch actually happens. Except in very odd cases (which this game, with its zombies, may well occur), a lynch is almost always more townie than a non-lynch.
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Funny that. In my experience, posting analysis is prone to error, frequent snippage, and, during at least one game, was used to try to alter my posts post facto.

Vote analysis, however, delivers cold, hard, inalterable facts. (And there’s usually some [del]fool[/del] kind soul who takes the job upon his/her shoulders to provide us with some voting sheet).

YMMV

262

I dunno. They can have good results. Look at the Freudian Slit lynch in YSI, which came out of literally nowhere, thanks to storyteller. Look at the HockeyGuy lynch in the offboard game (of which I am now a part), which came out of nowhere, thanks to Kat!. Heck, look at the fluiddruid lynch in the original Conspiracy, which came out of nowhere, thanks to the Witches.

Hmm…I’m seeing a pattern. I guess bandwagons are okay if they come out of nowhere thanks to a player’s analysis. But if they just sort of stack up because the guy was already a target, then they’re bad.

263

Not with four little qualifier words: “…assuming that I’m town…”. Again, in YSI there were five people left, and three were involved in heavy-duty analysis, each using that assumption to ease their calculation. As I was reading, I knew one of them was scum, I just wasn’t sure which.

Pleo was scum, and ever since I’ve disliked vote analysis.

Again, YMMV

264

[QUOTE=peekercpa]

And I guess we just won’t agree unless I am totally misunderstanding you, which based on my performance in these games could very well be the case.

I believe that this to be a plurality lynch as opposed to a majority lynch set up. In that case a bunch of folks moving their vote to create a “bandwagon” just seems to lend itself to a lot of “I was just doing what everyone else was doing”.

But if what you are suggesting is that bandwagons are good in the sense that nothing you said prior to piling on supports that vote, then I can live with that. It’s just that it feels that it gives the wafflers an easy out.
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I think it depends on the bandwagon, whether it’s a good thing or not. What I agree with peekercpa about is that a bandwagon can (and often does) provide a place for scum to “hide” their votes among town. And they can get away with it if town is lazy. What happens a lot is that a bandwagon gets rolling late in the Day, and players toss their votes on the pile with comments like “Well, I don’t see anyone else getting lynched, so vote X” and whatnot. Is this a lazy townie or a scum jumping on a bandwagon? Hard to say. Which is why we need to hold everyone accountable for their votes. The less lazy we are as a town, the more scum will have to work. By forcing everyone to provide accountable reasons for their votes, we force scum to go on the record. Unless they are bussing one of their own, their reasoning will be in some measure made up, and that’s where we have a sliver of a chance catching them in something down the line.

That’s why it’s also important not to let lurkers get a pass, and make everyone post. The more we force scum to post, the more chances of a slip-up, contradiction, etc. (I’m sure everyone is sick of hearing me say this in these games, but oh well :cool: )

265

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Funny that. In my experience, posting analysis is prone to error, frequent snippage, and, during at least one game, was used to try to alter my posts post facto.

Vote analysis, however, delivers cold, hard, inalterable facts. (And there’s usually some [del]fool[/del] kind soul who takes the job upon his/her shoulders to provide us with some voting sheet).

YMMV
[/QUOTE]

Vote analysis (of just the hard vote numbers) is more important later in the game, I think, when there are less players, more info, and less places to hide. The first few Days, particularly in a game as large as this, are too full of static, IMO. As I said above, making people accountable for their votes, though, is a very good thing. This is how MadTheSwine (Lead Assassin) caught my eye on Day One of SimpleTown and led to his lynch on Day Two.

As for post analysis, I’m a proponent. You are right that it can be turned against us by tricky scum (and mistaken town), but that’s the breaks, IMO. We must be prepared to defend ourselves against specious accusations and point out why they are specious. Another way to catch scum is when they make up/distort stuff, so we need to turn that to our advantage. Not easy, but there it is.

266

Just wanted to emphasise this. This is true for everything beneficial to town. Any argument based solely on this (yes, incluiding my own, which is more emotional than factual) is fundementally flawed.

267

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
I think it depends on the bandwagon, whether it’s a good thing or not. What I agree with peekercpa about is that a bandwagon can (and often does) provide a place for scum to “hide” their votes among town. And they can get away with it if town is lazy. What happens a lot is that a bandwagon gets rolling late in the Day, and players toss their votes on the pile with comments like “Well, I don’t see anyone else getting lynched, so vote X” and whatnot. Is this a lazy townie or a scum jumping on a bandwagon? Hard to say. Which is why we need to hold everyone accountable for their votes. The less lazy we are as a town, the more scum will have to work. By forcing everyone to provide accountable reasons for their votes, we force scum to go on the record. Unless they are bussing one of their own, their reasoning will be in some measure made up, and that’s where we have a sliver of a chance catching them in something down the line.

That’s why it’s also important not to let lurkers get a pass, and make everyone post. The more we force scum to post, the more chances of a slip-up, contradiction, etc. (I’m sure everyone is sick of hearing me say this in these games, but oh well :cool: )
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Ok. ShadowFacts basically took my ADHD thoughts and made them comprehensible. Thank you. Because that was at the essence what I was attempting to convey.

Regarding game mechanic discussions: It gives us something to talk about at least and establish some baselines.

I mean we just need to talk about something so that everyone is on the record regarding something. If it’s not this game then the U.S. Open or the NBA finals. At least talk and leave a trail or history to be analyzable at a future date. That’s what helps the town.

Another two cents.

And I just gotta figure that I am fugged in this game. Our Gastard Mod is a stinking Laker’s fan. That was a foul by Fisher on Barry you cheating, lying, Left Coast leaning, taking advantage of Memphis, having Crawford in the building, whining Phil, overpublicized Kobe, getting fixed in 2002 son of a gun.

Gosh do I feel better. Kind of cathartic.

Winces and waits for a lightning strike.

268

And I just had a horrible thought on re-read.

One more flippin’ discussion item: having just returned from Mexico recently maybe this is a delayed case of the demented touristas.

Normally this game is a case of us versus them. Problem is that there are also, potentially, those other gals/ guys and oh BTW that other group over there.

Crap, typically you just want to establish towniness, lynch the scum and voilla, town wins. In this game establishing town status, which is normally considered to be positive, just opens it up for one of the other potential “bad” groups to gain an advantage.

I’m going to start checking my life insuance policy for exceptions.

269

[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]
And I beg to differ, Rugger, but Dio was indeed advocationg conditionally dismissing certain roles if other certain roles were assumed to be present. He was not saying, “There is no Easter Bunny! I’m sure of it!” and I never said that was what he was saying. However, I don’t see much benefit to even speculating about conditionally saying “If there is an X, I don’t think we will have a Y”. Not yet anyway, and not without evidence.
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We’re going to have to agree to disagree, then. I don’t see the downside to such speculation at this point in the game. Let’s move on. :slight_smile:

270

[QUOTE=pedescribe]

Hmm…I’m seeing a pattern. I guess bandwagons are okay if they come out of nowhere thanks to a player’s analysis. But if they just sort of stack up because the guy was already a target, then they’re bad.
[/QUOTE]

Snipped

And on further review, I think if you take this observation along with ShadowFact’s clarification you would have my position totally. I never suggested that all badwagons are bad, nor am I suggesting that you or anyone else is suggesting that I suggested that. Because as noted, at times there are favorable outcomes. Just that, as a general rule, they end up resulting in a sub prime result.

271

[sorta out of game]I was going to tease** peekercpa **for having so many posts thus far, and when I checked the postcounts, I realized I had two more :smack:[/soog]

272

[QUOTE=peekercpa]
Snipped

And on further review, I think if you take this observation along with ShadowFact’s clarification you would have my position totally. I never suggested that all badwagons are bad, nor am I suggesting that you or anyone else is suggesting that I suggested that. Because as noted, at times there are favorable outcomes. Just that, as a general rule, they end up resulting in a sub prime result.
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Of course, in this game, they’re more likely to end up with a positive result, just because we have so many more targets to hit. We have a pro-Town group (the Witches) that will act in concert (sorta… they also must be sure not give clues away to each other’s existence) like a scum group normally would. We have A group of scum, the Undead, who have no knowledge about each other, and so, in general, will act exactly like townies.

No real analysis beyond that. Just some food for thought.

273

Well it looks like I’m going to win the idiot award. In my last post I suggest a lynch the lurker strategy then I dissapear for 2 days. I was out in the field and away from the net.

After finnaly reading everything and catching up, I’ll just make some general statements. I think that every role is in the game just due to the size and the extra bloody will come from the special powers. Also I think that we need to treat the nights like days and start each day with votes based on the nights activities. This will give us extra votes to analyze, although I’m not sure that scum won’t game those votes.

274

[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
[sorta out of game]I was going to tease** peekercpa **for having so many posts thus far, and when I checked the postcounts, I realized I had two more :smack:[/soog]
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Well at least I am consistent. I tend to do a lot of little posts instead of pages and pages of download. Crap, RoOsh’s first post may make my head explode.

275

And one last one just so it’s a horse race. Whatcha drinking? It’s on me.

Tag you’re it.

276

I can already tell I’m going to have a hard time keeping up with you guys.

277

[QUOTE=Drain Bead]
I can already tell I’m going to have a hard time keeping up with you guys.
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[sleaze] That’s what she said! [/sleaze]

278

Oredigger, just a quick observation. It’s common parlance to use Days and Nights and Today and Tomorrow to designate game Days and Nights, while referring to real life days and nights as such (in other words, it’s a lot less confusing if you capitalize when referring to the Game).
[QUOTE=Oredigger77]
Well it looks like I’m going to win the idiot award. In my last post I suggest a lynch the lurker strategy then I dissapear for 2 days. I was out in the field and away from the net.

After finnaly reading everything and catching up, I’ll just make some general statements. I think that every role is in the game just due to the size and the extra bloody will come from the special powers. Also I think that we need to treat the nights like days and start each day with votes based on the nights activities. This will give us extra votes to analyze, although I’m not sure that scum won’t game those votes.
[/QUOTE]

279

OTOH, "hedidn’tpostatnight"shouldn’tbeanaccusation,sincesomeofuswillrestatnight.

Myspacebarfailedgottogo

280

[QUOTE=pedescribe]
OTOH, "hedidn’tpostatnight"shouldn’tbeanaccusation,sincesomeofuswillrestatnight.

Myspacebarfailedgottogo
[/QUOTE]

There is always one fucking clown.

Taking it out into the parking lot MF. LOL :slight_smile: