Ok, I must be dumb as a stump (at this point ESPN and I sign a multi million dollar/multi picture movie deal).
I thought that if it was a mod-kill we got no information. If it was a lynch we would get delayed information. But I still am unclear which takes precedence. At least as far as a I have gotten on catching up Pleo’s answer seems to be contradictory. Long days and short nights, I guess.
Fliipin Board at my post. Not as elegant but what the hey.
Unvote CIAS
Who will be the next to gather votes and then subsequently claim? Since there are only scum and “power” roles this is inevitable.
Leading to the Mafia version of musical chairs where the last one standing is lynched. And on short notice, most likely.
You’re right: you didn’t say that. But if you’re against tactical moves that are pro-town because they’re strong tactics, then I can only guess that you’re either scum, or against tactics all together. If you remove tactical consideration from this game, it comes down to random voting. I mean, hell, if someone does one of the famed wrong-board-scum-posts, will you feel that voting for that person based on that post is wrong, and outside the spirit of the game? Is Lynch the Luker an unfair tactic?
Mass claims seem to be part and parcel of the consideration of any no-vanilla game. At this point, (with a Detective and Witch already revealed, forcing the Witches and Witchdoctor to play WIFOM no matter what we do), I’m wondering if there’s any reason other than your scum-sympathetic ‘that’s too strong’ argument against mass claiming.
I know it’s late in the Day, and I probably won’t whip up any steam, but I want to change my vote to be Pro-Mass Claim
[QUOTE=peekercpa]
Ok, I must be dumb as a stump (at this point ESPN and I sign a multi million dollar/multi picture movie deal).
I thought that if it was a mod-kill we got no information. If it was a lynch we would get delayed information. But I still am unclear which takes precedence. At least as far as a I have gotten on catching up Pleo’s answer seems to be contradictory. Long days and short nights, I guess.
[/QUOTE]
In previous games, a modkill meant that we would get no information on that person. But Pleonast has explained that that is not the case in this game:
[QUOTE=Pleonast]
Does a lynch preempt a mod-kill? Can we lynch a non-poster and still get information, or does the mod-kill occur before the lynch?
There’s no difference between a lynch and a Day-time mod-kill (Night-time mod-kills are like any other Night kill). They both have the same delayed reveal of player side and role. A player who is mod-killed automatically forfeits and loses even if their team later wins the game.
[/QUOTE]
So it’s not as bad in this game from an informational point of view, since we’ll get the same (delayed) info on a modkill as with a lynch.
[QUOTE=Diomedes]
You’re right: you didn’t say that. But if you’re against tactical moves that are pro-town because they’re strong tactics, then I can only guess that you’re either scum, or against tactics all together. If you remove tactical consideration from this game, it comes down to random voting. I mean, hell, if someone does one of the famed wrong-board-scum-posts, will you feel that voting for that person based on that post is wrong, and outside the spirit of the game? Is Lynch the Luker an unfair tactic?
Mass claims seem to be part and parcel of the consideration of any no-vanilla game. At this point, (with a Detective and Witch already revealed, forcing the Witches and Witchdoctor to play WIFOM no matter what we do), I’m wondering if there’s any reason other than your scum-sympathetic ‘that’s too strong’ argument against mass claiming.
I know it’s late in the Day, and I probably won’t whip up any steam, but I want to change my vote to be Pro-Mass Claim
[/QUOTE]
Well I don’t know that I would go so far as to say that a Witch and a Detective have been revealed merely that we have two players that have claimed those roles.
I kind of wonder if that was the whole point of the delayed information. To frustrate a mass role claim strategy. I also go back to the Clinton strategy of the difference between a and the wording of the roles. Normally, you get two detecs, say, claiming. Stretch one and you either bagged a scum that day or the next. Also, since it normally one side against another the implications are clear. Here it is one against three so false claims could come from a wider variety of directions and motives.
Two cents, as usual.
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
In previous games, a modkill meant that we would get no information on that person. But Pleonast has explained that that is not the case in this game:
So it’s not as bad in this game from an informational point of view, since we’ll get the same (delayed) info on a modkill as with a lynch.
[/QUOTE]
Gotcha.
It just seemed a little contradictory on first read but now I finally get it.
And I was just doing a little simple math in my head. If there are three killing activities at night coupled with the Day lynch that would be four per cycle (if they were all to succeed). That means something along the lines of five or six Days. Since we are already at 17 pages we are talking about something along the lines of 80 - 100 pages.
I know it will slow down a bit but the poster who shall remain nameless has not even started weighing in.
Yikes.
On that pleasant thought, goodnight all.
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
CatInASuit, you have this weird…analytical, detached, relaxed style that just doesn’t sit well with me. Kinda like Dio’s “agressivly pursue one person until s/he’s dead” strategy rubs me the wrong way. I think that’s where most of my suspicion comes from.
::taking eyes off CatInASuit::
[/QUOTE]
That’s what everyone says and **storyteller ** starts complaining if I don’t post analytically.
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
THat said, let me adress your concerns.
First, “how can you know that the cabal is almost certianly three in number?” Well, I don’t. Keep in mind that this post was made on night one, where we all were wildly speculating and offering various strategems. I suspect that there are three cabal this time because there were three last time, and there are still three witches, and last game they all got killed off early, so nobody could tell how good they could have been. Also, that post was made very early, before many people were speculating about how many cabal there were (keep in mind it was mentally written a few hours before I got to a computer) (most of my posts are), so the reason I assumed a three-person cabal is because I didn’t think of the idea that there would be anything but a three person cabal.
[/QUOTE]
So in other words, because the last game had 3 Cabal in, you were speculating that this game would also have three Cabal in.
In that case what were you thoughts about the sizes of the other groups given that the number of players is much larger in this game?
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
Second, again this was during the early night, where everyone was wildly speculating. I didn’t want everyone latching on to one idea and taking it as truth. I had no idea if my, or any idea, was so appealing, but I figured that since my post was so tame, it might, so I made the addendum. Okay, a little vain perhaps, but hardly malevolent.
[/QUOTE]
Your post both said that certain roles were in the game but that you were probably wrong about it. It feels like a post that is trying to say two things at once and be able to be interpreted either way depending on what you feel like.
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
Third, when I said mass pm reveal, I meant pleo’s list of rules on google docs. Although, it took me ten minutes of thought to figure out what I meant, so it was badly phrased. Keep in mind, however, that that was made before the idea of a mass roleclaim was an idea, so I wasn’t thinking about other possible phrasings. Here’s how I would say this now if I was going to make the same point now.
It’s still a stupid point.
[/quote]
That makes more sense now. Thank you for clarifying.
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
Fourthly, “what do you mean in this sentence [and it doesn’t look like cat has made much more of a splash]”. You are right, in that you personally didn’t change my opinion about your scuminess in my eyes. However, you and I don’t post in a vacuum. Other people posted. Other people, who said things like ‘CatInASuit may be contreversial, but he’s not scummy, and here’s why’, and ‘CatInASuit’s logic isn’t flawed, and here’s why’, and ‘I’m going to lynch anyone who votes for CatInASuit’. And not only that, but everyone’s inherent level of scumminess drops for me over time without anyone doing anything. Because I play this game with my emotions, my votes tend to be on rash opinions as opposed to large tallies. As I calm down, and I manage to look at it from another point of view, everything’s more explainable. Everything, and that’s why usually I’ll change my vote several times over the day. So while you personally didn’t do anything, in my eyes, your scuminess level dropped enough for me to unvote you.
[/quote]
It could also be taken as no-one else has joined the CIAS bandwagon, I can move off him as the role-reveal idea seems to be going nowhere and people are getting suspicious of those against CIAS. Purely my take on it, of course.
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
Fifthly, I’ve already explained my Pollux Oil vote. You’re right, in that it is a sort of a placeholder vote because I find him the scummiest at the moment, but not extrodinarily scummy. However, I do contend one point. I’ve mentioned him before I voted for him.
In post #559. The contents of that post are this:
I hope that changes your mind, because I’m not a cabal member.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for pointing it out. I apologise for missing it while reading your posts.
Your answers make some sense and I would probably look somewhere else apart from the fact you appear to have missed out two answers to a couple of my questions.
And these two are the questions that are at odds with the rest of your stance.
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
#152You say what you think the town should do to slow and stop the undead and wolves without mentioning what you are going to do about the Cabal?
So, what are you going to do to the Cabal?
#185You seem almost certain that the Witches are in the game because otherwise the Cabal becomes too powerful.
Contrast this with you earlier thoughts about the Cabal being the weak faction though. Is it just the absence of the Witches that makes the Cabal so powerful or is it that you know the Witches must exist?
[/QUOTE]
I look forward to your response.
It’s good to be missed 
Sorry about the unannounced absence; I was off on a research trip for the last week and didn’t have the kind of internet access that I had expected.
Anyway, having just re-read the entire thread I’m still not sure who to vote for. The vast majority of posts so far concerned CIAS’ mass roleclaim suggestion and Nanook’s slip and subsequent roleclaim.
I’m going to have to go back and examine in detail some of the explanations for the votes cast thus far to see if I agree with them, but thus far I’m just not seeing anything that scummy (not that surprising at this stage, I know). I think all Mafia games involve a fair amount of fumbling around in the beginning but this rule set and number of players exacerbates that problem greatly here. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it takes a few Days before this game becomes manageable. Thankfully the likely large number of scum means that there’s a better chance that one of them will be the victim of town’s fumbling.
[QUOTE=peekercpa]
And I was just doing a little simple math in my head. If there are three killing activities at night coupled with the Day lynch that would be four per cycle (if they were all to succeed). That means something along the lines of five or six Days. Since we are already at 17 pages we are talking about something along the lines of 80 - 100 pages.
[/QUOTE]
And Day Two is actually going to be longer than Day One…
[QUOTE=Hal Briston]
Caveat: I completely skimmed from post 800 onward. Of course, that’s only 19 posts, but there was no way I could get fully read everything while keeping the vote chart updated, all while getting off the computer before my wife started tapping her foot. So, the chart is updated through post 800, and my voting is based on thorough reading through that point, and skimming thereafter.
And the skim gets the vote, for now anyway.
brewha, aren’t you kinda falsely representing Zsofia reasoning? “Jumping on someone else’s idea is opportunistic and scummy”? Huh? Every time we lynch someone, it’s because someone points out a reason for the lynch, and others agree. Not going along with someone else’s idea either means you’re the first one to vote for a particular person, or you’ve come up with new evidence for someone already under scrutiny. The idea that agreeing with someone else is scummy flies in the face of almost all voting in the game. Nope…don’t like it one bit.
Vote brewha
[/QUOTE]
Really? Simply agree with someone esle’s reasoning for a lynch IS scummy and opportunistic. All the ‘me too’ voters can just say, “well I didn’t come up with the idea, I was just going along with it.” and attempt to absolve themselves of the blame.
Ideally, the first several votes should be because the voter believes that the person they are voting for is scummy. Not because of what the voter before them reasoned, but because they had also noticed something scummy. Sure, maybe after 6 or 10 or 15 votes have accumulated, there may be no other new reasoning for a vote. But, after one?
**Pleo, just wanted to point out that I fucked on the bleaching on that quote. It’s getting down to the wire and I wanted to make sure you didn’t mistake it for an actual vote. **
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
And these two are the questions that are at odds with the rest of your stance.
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
#152You say what you think the town should do to slow and stop the undead and wolves without mentioning what you are going to do about the Cabal?
So, what are you going to do to the Cabal?
#185You seem almost certain that the Witches are in the game because otherwise the Cabal becomes too powerful.
Contrast this with you earlier thoughts about the Cabal being the weak faction though. Is it just the absence of the Witches that makes the Cabal so powerful or is it that you know the Witches must exist?
[/quote]
I look forward to your response.
[/QUOTE]
Not to answer for ped or anything, but I meant to mention why these two things bothered me earlier. I didn’t get around to it then, so how convenient of you to bring it back up again.
First, you attack ped for not talking about the Cabal when ped, in post 152, was talking about the vig and other factions with known Nightkills. The Cabal doesn’t fit that description.
Second, when ped is talking about Witches, he’s specifically responding to Dio’s post where Dio says he thinks there might not be Witches. Saying that one faction might be a weak faction, and something can change to make them more powerful, is not a contradiction in my book.
So, there’s two posts where you conveniently left out the context of ped’s statements and used them to attack him. I don’t like it one bit.
Day One ends in about five hours. Note that the Day ends even without an explicit post from me. Votes with a post time after noon PT will not be counted. Be patient while I do final vote tallies and resolve powers.
Remember, the player with the most votes is lynched. Ties mean no lynch takes place.
brewha, despite your claim otherwise, your vote appears to be completely omgus. You reason that two people can’t have the same reason to vote for the same person, which means that whoever reads through first and catches something has valid reasoning, but the next person to come to the same conclusion is scummy. That doesn’t really hold water, if the reasoning is valid, why wouldn’t two people come to the same conclusion?
Also, while I can find reasons to vote for a no-lynch on day with the particular set-up we have, not having a decent target is not among them. We get information only after significant delay, how is reducing that information beneficial to the town? Also, how do we gain insight into you from a no-lynch vote, other than you appear to motivated to not take any risk, and motivated to reduce the town’s information pool?
I think I’m pretty comfortable with:
vote brewha
Somehow I’m envisioning a last minute flurry of votes where everyone is going to panic and just tack their vote on to whomever is leading to prevent themselves from gettting modkilled.
Allow me to remove my name from the list of lynchables.
Let me 'splain why I didn’t want to vote. When I reveal the role and identity of the person we lynch tonight, I don’t want people to think that I’m giving biased information based on my own lynch preferences. I’d rather play the role of a messenger rather than a crusader with an axe to grind.
I didn’t want to do this for another Day or so. I had planned on laying low and revealing my role just before Pleo revealed the true identity of our first victim. That way there wouldn’t be as much of a trust issue and I would be more likely to live through the first night. You are 100% correct, Cookies, my no lynch vote was intended to avoid the exact attention that you gave me.
So, to make it official, I’m A Coroner. Yes, A coroner. I really doubt that there is more than one, but my PM states A not The, so make of that what you will.
I also wanted to add that I don’t think my early reveal is too big a deal. Sach revealed early in Conspiracy 1 and it seemed to work out alright for him. I believe that the scum are just as eager as the town to find out the identities of the dead - so hopefully I’m not putting myself high on their kill list.
[QUOTE=brewha]
Somehow I’m envisioning a last minute flurry of votes where everyone is going to panic and just tack their vote on to whomever is leading to prevent themselves from gettting modkilled.
[/quote]
Again, this misunderstanding.
You do not risk a Modkill if you have no outstanding vote at close of play on a Day. You risk Modkill if you have never placed a vote during the Day.
Placing a vote and removing it suffices to avoid Modkill.
[QUOTE=MHaye]
Again, this misunderstanding.
You do not risk a Modkill if you have no outstanding vote at close of play on a Day. You risk Modkill if you have never placed a vote during the Day.
Placing a vote and removing it suffices to avoid Modkill.
[/QUOTE]
Point taken. I think it’s bullshit though. How can someone vote for, then subsequently unvote, themselves and avoid scrutiny? I vote no lynch - with good reason - and I’m suddenly the leader in votes ( or nearly the leader. Anyone got a vote count?).
When’s the last time anyone heard from CoG888?