Mafia: Conspiracy 2: The Cabal Strikes Back! [Game Over]

The Game Room
1122

I do think it’s a little unfair to expect somebody to be here RIGHT THEN as if we were all getting paid to play Mafia.

That being said, I of course wish Nanook had posted before storyteller.

On the other hand, people were HOWLING for storyteller to hurry up and spill the beans as if we were in some huge rush here. Rushing like that can’t be pro-town in the long run.

Of course, storyteller came out with his obvious hint right there out of the gate, very early. A better move for town would have been if he’d had Nanook share his results first. Plenty of time to stretch pedescribe if need be. Is that because unprompted reveals are somewhat more likely to be believed? (For better or for worse - I do think it’s likely that storyteller is town now, and Nanook will be confirmed one way or another soon.)

I certainly see why he would have investigated storyteller, though - his reasoning makes a lot of sense. The experienced players are kind of “scary” in a game - in the one game I’ve played I was terrified that BlasterMaster would turn out to be scum, because he sounds so authoritative. It’s a good idea to test the best players, since if they’re scum they’re less likely to slip on their own.

1123

NETA - I had not considered the Omega Wolf possibility. I will have to think about that.

1124

The Magician’s attacker of course knows the identity of the Magician. That’s the player they targeted to attack! When the attack is redirected, the attacker then discovers that their original target was a Magician–because the attack was redirected.

Sorry for any confusion. The rules are held in a gestalt in my mind. I don’t always explain well, but it’s not my intention to hide non-secret rule mechanics. Although I prefer rules questions be sent via PM.

I can’t comment on the style of any alleged PMs, other than to say I don’t intentionally use any particular style in my PMs.

1125

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
Err.. hate to argue with this one on you, Pleo… but the official rules say they both discover each other’s identity:

I think we need to figure out what you would have sent, though, Pleo. Is my interpretation of the rules, that the killer finds out the magician’s identity correct?

Because according to the rules as I understand them, pedescribe should have gotten a very different PM than the one he posted. It’s raising my suspicions of the possibility of a deep, complicated plot by storyteller to sac a wolf in order to give him, an Omega Wolf (which is what he’d have to be, with Nanook’s investigation), iron-clad towny cred as a Magician. The only way that plan might not work is because the Wolves wouldn’t have the right PM, so they’d have to make one up… perhaps accidently not in accordance with Pleo’s ruleset.

I should add that I don’t think this is the most likely scenario, but if the PM pedescribe isn’t what’s in keeping with what Pleo would have sent, we have to figure out why pede would have altered it.
[/QUOTE]

Well, one would think that pedescribe knows the identity of the person he attacked, so the only thing left to discover is the role.

1126

[QUOTE=RoOsh]
I like my method better to prove who you are*. Also, don’t forget the possibility that Story COULD be an Omega Wolf or something… However, I suppose that’s pretty low considering you DID demonstrate your powers (Ped’s admitting he tried to off you at least), so uh… I guess you’re probably not the Omega Wolf, story. I’ll count you as Town in my book then for now. Though if anyone deserved that sort of uber-paranoid suspicion from me, it’d be You. :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

I hate to keep on hounding story like this, but hounding is what I do. I’m really not intending this as a smear, but I really don’t want to give one of our most skilled players a free pass as a townie when it’s not for sure.

Imagine this scenario: Wolves meet at night; their numbers include pedescribe and storyteller(Omega) amongst others.
storyteller, Master Mafioso, sets forth this plan: The Wolves nightkill NBC, probably having pede do it, in order to cover their butts in case of Detective or Warlock activity. storyteller works up anti-NBC sentiment amongst town on the boards at night, giving a perfect reason for him to ‘redirect’ attacks onto NBC. Day comes, story outs pede, we lynch pede, and story gets a free ride (he’s immune to investigations, and he can’t be found out by the masons, because he’s not claiming mason) for the rest of the game.

1127

[QUOTE=Drain Bead]
Well, one would think that pedescribe knows the identity of the person he attacked, so the only thing left to discover is the role.
[/QUOTE]

:smack:
Don’t you hate when you think you’re being very clever, and it just turns out you’re missing the big stuff?

1128

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
:smack:
Don’t you hate when you think you’re being very clever, and it just turns out you’re missing the big stuff?
[/QUOTE]

Yup.

I am having some problems with your persuit of Storyteller, Dio. Why is it so important that you drum up suspicion against him right now when so much is still up in the air? Is there any realistic chance that Pedescribe isn’t going to get lynched toDay? When Pedescribe dies we will (in a few Days) get a lot more information. Until that point I am more or less willing to put storyteller in stasis. If he is a magician, he is no longer useful, if he is a wolf there are others to catch as far as I am concerned story is one less person we have to worry about until we find out Pedescribes role. Once less pice of the puzzle to confuse us…so why does he need to be dead right now?

1129

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
I hate to keep on hounding story like this, but hounding is what I do. I’m really not intending this as a smear, but I really don’t want to give one of our most skilled players a free pass as a townie when it’s not for sure.

Imagine this scenario: Wolves meet at night; their numbers include pedescribe and storyteller(Omega) amongst others.
storyteller, Master Mafioso, sets forth this plan: The Wolves nightkill NBC, probably having pede do it, in order to cover their butts in case of Detective or Warlock activity. storyteller works up anti-NBC sentiment amongst town on the boards at night, giving a perfect reason for him to ‘redirect’ attacks onto NBC. Day comes, story outs pede, we lynch pede, and story gets a free ride (he’s immune to investigations, and he can’t be found out by the masons, because he’s not claiming mason) for the rest of the game.
[/QUOTE]

Sure, it’s possible, from your perspective. There’s really no way to answer this, nor is there any evidence that it’s occurred (mostly because, you know, it didn’t).

In the end, I have no particular objection if folks hold trust of me in abeyance for now or forever, and if I am lynched at some point then as mislynches go, it’ll be no great loss.

I will say, though - not that this means much to you, because if I were Scum hatchign this sort of plot I’d say the same thing and be lying - that a plan like the one you describe would be anathema to me as Scum. In my incarnations as Scum, I have adhered primarily to a “keep it simple” philosophy; experience suggests that the more elaborate the Scum plot, the less likely it is to work properly. I most certainly wouldn’t advocate sacrificing any of my team early in the game, particularly not one who had drawn no particular suspicion.

All of which is less intended as comment on my own situation and more as comment on the game in general. I have little fear of complicated schemes on the part of the Scum, because they cannot control all the possible factors that will influence the way their scheme plays out. Scum who play a straightforward game, making moves only as appropriate rather than proactively, are much more dangerous, in my opinion and experience.

1130

As others have said, I can’t see how a Vig would decide to do what pedescribe has said he did. Playing Russian Roulette with not only another player but himself? Not so much…

That alone is enough for me to put his name in blue as well at this point. That he had been allegedly caught in the act was not worth a vote, so I would not have voted based purely on story’s accusation, but a trigger-happy Vig confession strikes me as the smelliest of the various convenient claims being made Today.

Vote pedescribe

So now what?

1131

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Yup.

I am having some problems with your persuit of Storyteller, Dio. [snip] Once less piece of the puzzle to confuse us…so why does he need to be dead right now?
[/QUOTE]

Oh, he doesn’t. I wouldn’t advocate lynching a questionably confirmed towny above a pretty damn confirmed scum ever.
On the other hand, I don’t want us to settle into the mindset that storyteller must be town, and then get down to a LyLo where everyone feels safe letting him make the calls. (Isn’t that essentially what happened in M2?)

1132

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Yup.

I am having some problems with your persuit of Storyteller, Dio. Why is it so important that you drum up suspicion against him right now when so much is still up in the air? Is there any realistic chance that Pedescribe isn’t going to get lynched toDay? When Pedescribe dies we will (in a few Days) get a lot more information. Until that point I am more or less willing to put storyteller in stasis. If he is a magician, he is no longer useful, if he is a wolf there are others to catch as far as I am concerned story is one less person we have to worry about until we find out Pedescribes role. Once less pice of the puzzle to confuse us…so why does he need to be dead right now?
[/QUOTE]

(bolding mine)

NAF, this kind of thing really bugs me. Nowhere did Diomedes suggest that we should lynch storyteller now (or ever, actually, IIRC). He was directly responding to Roosh saying that he was going to count storyteller as town. Dio then said that “I really don’t want to give one of our most skilled players a free pass as a townie when it’s not for sure.” I agree with him - it’s a reasonable precaution to take until we get some more info. Yet you try to make it seem like Dio is calling for story’s lynch. Why?

1133

[QUOTE=RoOsh]
Hey, I thoughts of a great way to confirm ya, Nanners!

Should another witch die during the Night, you just have to tell us that person’s a witch before anyone else does. Then when you do so, that’d be some really good evidence for you to clear your name with.

Just make sure you show up at the start of the day to point out if any of your comrades died before the info is revealed by someone else and you’ll have my vote of confidence! That’s a better way then just arbitrarily saying “Hey, I won’t believe you until you produce Scum” or something like that (because another Wolf or such could just choose to try to sacrifice their partner to gain credibility).

I like my method better to prove who you are*. Also, don’t forget the possibility that Story COULD be an Omega Wolf or something… However, I suppose that’s pretty low considering you DID demonstrate your powers (Ped’s admitting he tried to off you at least), so uh… I guess you’re probably not the Omega Wolf, story. I’ll count you as Town in my book then for now. Though if anyone deserved that sort of uber-paranoid suspicion from me, it’d be You. :slight_smile:

*The Flip Side being though- if a Witch shows up dead and you didn’t identify them as your buddy, you’re gonna deserve a good ol’ neck stretching…
[/QUOTE]

Quoting this because I don’t want it to get lost in the shuffle. It’s an awfully good idea, I think, because it allows for really solid confirmation of Nanook without requiring us to lynch him, wait for him to die, play WIFOM games with his investigation results, or get confirmation from living and still-anonymous Witches. I can think of no objection to this plan, and call upon Nanook to formally announce that he will state that a dead player is a Witch before that player’s alignment or role is revealed by Pleonast.

1134

EBWOP: Aaaand Dio already responded. Preview is my friend…

1135

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
(bolding mine)

NAF, this kind of thing really bugs me. Nowhere did Diomedes suggest that we should lynch storyteller now (or ever, actually, IIRC). He was directly responding to Roosh saying that he was going to count storyteller as town. Dio then said that “I really don’t want to give one of our most skilled players a free pass as a townie when it’s not for sure.” I agree with him - it’s a reasonable precaution to take until we get some more info. Yet you try to make it seem like Dio is calling for story’s lynch. Why?
[/QUOTE]

Because he was Shadow. He wasn’t telling us to not lynch Pedescribe, but he WAS setting up the possibility of lynching story in the near future. I just finished a game where I pulled a very similar gambit, I know it when I see it. Look at Dio’s posts again and tell me that they are not leaning far more towards “story is probably not town” than “let’s wait and see what happens”. I want to call him on that before people start agreeing with him.

1136

There’s been a lot of activity over the day, and all of it discussing one thing.

I find there is one point in Pedescribe’s favour. Everyone seems to be dismissing his explanation of why he used his claimed ablilty; the intoxication of having a kill ability.

We have had a recent case of a Vig who used their power on Night One, even though they did not have to. When explaining themselves, their defence was “I had this power and I was going to use it.” (Approximately.)

So you’re overlooking at least one previous incident of the same activity. True, the role didn’t have the forced suicide problem if a Townie was taken out; but it is known to happen.

I still think he’s more likely than not to be a scum killer. Given that :

Vote pedescribe.

1137

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Because he was Shadow. He wasn’t telling us to not lynch Pedescribe, but he WAS setting up the possibility of lynching story in the near future. I just finished a game where I pulled a very similar gambit, I know it when I see it. Look at Dio’s posts again and tell me that they are not leaning far more towards “story is probably not town” than “let’s wait and see what happens”. I want to call him on that before people start agreeing with him.
[/QUOTE]

No I wasn’t. The thing I’m leaning most towards is “storyteller isn’t 100% confirmed”. In order to make that point, of course I have to emphasize the reasons why he might be scum, because the reasons for believing him to be Town are pretty much out there already.

1138

First off,
Vote pedescribe
Unless he comes up with some miracle explanation, he’s far and away the best target. If he’s truly a vig, then he’s not playing in a pro-town manner. Simply put, I can’t see how any non-scum could have considered story the best target.

[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]
So now what?
[/QUOTE]
Good question…let’s assume that we’re all on the right track and that pedescribe is scum. If that’s the case, then there is one thing I can 100% guarantee to you all: One of his scumbuddies was quick to jump on that bandwagon.

Diomedes, cckerberos, Omi, OAOW and RoOsh were the first five to lay down a vote for him. I’ll stake anything you want to name that pedescribe has a teammate on that list.

1139

I am concerned that we’ll have an “okay, we caught scum, let’s rest on our laurels for the rest of the day” thing going on and waste this productive time. Who’s the second scummiest? And who else killed at Night? If pedescribe did indeed inadvertently kill NBC and is not a Vig, who was he? And who (meaning what faction) killed brewha and Santo Rugger? Do we have two Vampires? Does the Cabal have a night kill? Did somebody have a special power? Any way you slice it it does seem that there is one more kill than we were strictly anticipating.

1140

[QUOTE=Zsofia]
I am concerned that we’ll have an “okay, we caught scum, let’s rest on our laurels for the rest of the day” thing going on and waste this productive time. Who’s the second scummiest? And who else killed at Night? If pedescribe did indeed inadvertently kill NBC and is not a Vig, who was he? And who (meaning what faction) killed brewha and Santo Rugger? Do we have two Vampires? Does the Cabal have a night kill? Did somebody have a special power? Any way you slice it it does seem that there is one more kill than we were strictly anticipating.
[/QUOTE]

Ok, I don’t want to pick on you Zsofia, you are just the most recent person to say this…how are we in any way sitting back on our laurels? What we do now is talk about people’s reactions to the pedescribe situation etc. Kind of what has been happening.

1141

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
Ok, I don’t want to pick on you Zsofia, you are just the most recent person to say this…how are we in any way sitting back on our laurels? What we do now is talk about people’s reactions to the pedescribe situation etc. Kind of what has been happening.
[/QUOTE]

Good God, first I agree with Roosh and now with you. What is happening to me?

Anyway, I second the above. We’re doing right, so far. When I have a bit of spare time - and for once, I will - I’ll start looking at what pedescribe was up to yesterDay, and maybe look closer at Hal’s list of early voters for pedescribe toDay.