Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT FOUR

[Trepa_Mayfield]

@JSexton

Which is actually further evidence agaisnt Blam being town. Two inventors? Really?

Why is that so hard to believe? Sure, inventor is rather nontraditional, but becuase the mod has complete control over what powers he has and how much information he has about those powers, the inventor can be anywhere from sucky to WATCH OUT!, meaning it would be an asset in balancing the game, not a detriment.

@JSexton

Oh, sure. Typically 3 or 4. I’ve never heard of one having 9 or more abilities before.

See Arcade, from Skrull planet. Co-modded by Story and Kat. He was a pro-town inventor with…somewhere around nine objects. Granted, there were significant differences. First, 2 did nothing, and second, he had no idea what did what (except for a bomb that was quite obviously a bomb). What that means is that, if BlaM is telling the truth, there’s some sort of nerfing aspect to his role. It could be that he’s PFK. It could be that his powers don’t work on deadites, because they don’t dream. It could be he can only use his powers until he posts a certain number of times, like I posited earlier. There are any number of ways Story could have made a pro-town inventor with at least 9 powers without stepping on Diggit’s toes that’s balanced. I’m willing to at least give him a day to send me a message, if not more.

[Blaster_Master]

@Natlaw

Another question about Cookies dream: any mention of the connection between her and the nightmare Ash in your result PM?

I missed this. But the answer is no. I had no indication that she received a PM or what the nightmare would be about. AFAICT, I didn’t think there would be any indication to her at all that I targetted her and I was just as surprised by her post about the Nightmare, because I’m not familiar with the series, other than AoD, so I really didn’t know what the heck was going on in it. It was until after someone talked about the Evil Ash that I was able to piece together what the color meant.

[Natlaw]

@Storyteller to Blaster Master

Sorry. You’re hitting the bad luck lottery in this game, if that helps at all.

How is catching a doctor (you could have supported him if he claimed), confirming town (dotchan alpha vanilla) and not killing (someone you think) town bad luck?
If Story is just talking about your actions failing, the first two seem to be successful.

[Blaster_Master]

@JSexton

Which is actually further evidence agaisnt Blam being town. Two inventors? Really?

Oh, sure. Typically 3 or 4. I’ve never heard of one having 9 or more abilities before.

Who the hell knows. The fact remains that we have no idea what other power roles are involved, and what powers the scum may have, so the fact that you may think it is unreasonable, but like you’ve said about your magical formula, that it just doesn’t do a whole lot of good when you don’t know the setup of the game.

It’s day 4. Not exactly early. And I don’t know what your WC is. I lost a game recently to a 3rd party who merely had to be involved in 4 mislynches. That sucked. I’m not saying your theoretical WC is that easy, but that point is that it could be anything, and you could be pretty close to it for all I know. Remember, we only have your word that your powers have been less than useful.

And I think we can both agree that a win like that, in a game of this size, is horribly poor game design. The very fact that I attempted to kill and it failed should be evidence enought that I’m not playing a perfect game, and so any fastest possible win scenario, if I am in fact PFK, is completely out the window.

Then this conversation would have gone very differently. But it didn’t. Tell you what, what if I claimed cop and told you I’d successfully identified three scum so far? Would you be less suspicious of me then, especially after lynching the first one?

Do you see how alternate realities don’t actually help your case in this reality?

I agree that it doesn’t help me, but I’ve presented the events, as they occured. Your scenario of claiming cop is not remotely analagous. I’ve presented VERIFIABLE information, that is still testable now. I’m willing to bet my life that whoever protected Pedescribe can verify I am speaking the truth, that if Dotchan isn’t Alpha, I should be lynched, and that if any kill that could even remotely be attached to me AND Pedescribe doesn’t get my message tonight doesn’t happen, I should be lynched.

Instead, I’m being lynched because I FAILED to use my powers optimally. In other words, I’m being lynched becasue of alternate realities.

Because granting that quantity of power, on top of everything else we’ve seen given to the town, doesn’t feel like town itself. It feels like something given to balance a 3rd party without the ability to kill every night.

Again, look at the evidence as it exists. Someone else had some series of powers and, AFAICT, they’re likely a different set.

I’ve said this more than once. It has nothing to do with color, and everything to do with game design and balance, based on conversations I’ve had with storyteller prior to this game.

And I have enough trust in storyteller that he wouldn’t put an obnoxious PFK that could steal the game from town in 3 days with obviously flawed play. Beside the fact that everything you’ve suggested that might make me a PFK is purely speculative, you can’t even make a point for why I should be lynched Today if I were. So, seriously, WTF?

I think he had a blast creating these roles. That doesn’t speak to your alignment, though, so why bring it up as though it does?

It does, because you find it so hard to believe that a role as complex as mine might be town. The complexity of my role says nothing about my alignment. Period.

Yes. I’ve seen it done and done it myself. So, yeah. To be fair, I’ve also seen games where townies can pass on info secretly, but I think it’s more effective and useful in the hands of scum.

You’ve given one far-fetched example, and my explanation is FAR FAR simpler and, wow, fits in with the rest of my powers and my play so far. Unless you can give an example that isn’t basically a one in a million shot, you’re just pulling this out of thin air.

Sigh. The evidence for you having kills is you admitting that you have a kill. The fact that it failed doesn’t magically remove your culpability.

WTF? Are you deliberately being obtuse when you read my responses? Evidence that I’m responsible for any kills. I’m not. I ATTEMPTED one. If I were a roll with win conditions that required kills, don’t you think there’d be evidence from the other Nights that I might have been killing people? Yet there’s evidence directly to the contrary.

I dropped it because new evidence came to light (your further abilities) that made PFK make more sense than scum cop. It didn’t change in a vacuum.

Of course it didn’t change in a vacuum; you dropped it because you were throwing dirt and seeing what stuck. You realized that a scum investigator wouldn’t target Cookies last Night, so you went to another possibility.

[Blaster_Master]

@Natlaw

How is catching a doctor (you could have supported him if he claimed), confirming town (dotchan alpha vanilla) and not killing (someone you think) town bad luck?
If Story is just talking about your actions failing, the first two seem to be successful.

No, my first one I specifically stated that I didn’t think the doctor would protect him, and that the scum might attack him. I was dead wrong. I targetted Dotchan thinking she was scum. I was dead wrong. The Cookies one I already covered. It’s bad luck because, my logic was sound, and I was pretty sure I was making good moves, but things just didn’t pan out.

It would be like a Vig targetting people. Sure, he might be successful in killing every night, but if he’s always killing town, he’s still the victim of bad luck. No?

[Blaster_Master]

@MHaye

BlaM, what is your definition of “lurker?”

When I’ve used the term lurker, it’s tended to be in reference to people who have posted only a little, here and there to look like they’re participating, but not really saying a whole lot. I think there’s a fundamental difference with how I’ve played because I wasn’t making any attempt to post at all. I wasn’t trying to look like I’ve been around without actually being there. It may be a subtle difference, but I do think it’s a distinction of note.

I hope I’m making sense.

[Blaster_Master]

Also, in the off-chance that it may save my life, I’m not by any means convinced that Hal is scum, but I know that I am not, and I still have some very useful powers remaining. And since I think he’s the next vote getter after me, I can hope…

Vote Hal

[Blaster_Master]

And, since my lynch looks imminent, I want to repeat my warning to look closely at who was pushing my lynch, how, and why. I will be very disappointed if JSexton’s logic isn’t looked through much more thoroughly in light of my death. I think there was at least one other who was on a similar sort of path, Zeriel, I think.

And really, the nit-picking of language has never turned out well in this game. That whole thing is one of the most ridiculous arguments I’ve ever been involved in, in all the games I’ve been in.

[Natlaw]

Current unofficial, not entirely sure correct vote count:
Blaster Master (5): Natlaw, dotchan, Millit the Frail, brewha, Hockey Monkey
Hal Briston (4): pedescribe, amrussell, Cookies, Blaster Master
Hockey Monkey (1): Almost Human
Mhaye (1): NAF1138
Cookies (1): Hal Briston

I looked at Hal Briston, but only got two minor things probably caused by reading up to fast in this post.
-He should have claimed town, not vanilla.
-voting Cookies while we’re waiting for an investigation (then again at least it a vote where his suspicion lie)
Not enough reason to switch to him.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

@Natlaw

Current unofficial, not entirely sure correct vote count:
Blaster Master (5): Natlaw, dotchan, Millit the Frail, brewha, Hockey Monkey
Hal Briston (4): pedescribe, amrussell, Cookies, Blaster Master
Hockey Monkey (1): Almost Human
Mhaye (1): NAF1138
Cookies (1): Hal Briston

I looked at Hal Briston, but only got two minor things probably caused by reading up to fast in this post.
-He should have claimed town, not vanilla.
-voting Cookies while we’re waiting for an investigation (then again at least it a vote where his suspicion lie)
Not enough reason to switch to him.

You left out having piss-poor justification for my vote, and lurking his ass off, which is why you didn’t find much on him.

[Trepa_Mayfield]

…I wonder what happens if it’s a tie?

[special_ed]

Too little time left to post my reasoning. There’s some thoughts there that I can expand upon toNight after I take my son to work and feed my other children and maybe relax after a stressful first week back with a bunch of 7th graders.
I want to give Blam more time to somewhat confirm himself.

This:

Vote Hal

seems to be the only way to do that.

[special_ed]

wow, and now I see I’m keeping company with our mason and other other oft suspected players in my voting.

I’d honestly rather be voting elsewhere, but this vote seems prudent.

I’m still all for Blam NOT sending a message tonight if he has some other power that can give us information. Giving us that information toMorrow, and allowing us to lynch him then for confirmation of dotchan

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Goddamnit Blam. One of these days I’ll know what you are, and I will be able to sleep again.

Sorry. You’re hitting the bad luck lottery in this game, if that helps at all.

If I’m town, and you’re town, why would it be “bad luck” to target me with a potentially killing power that I somehow survive?

[special_ed]

@special_ed

wow, and now I see I’m keeping company with our mason and other other oft suspected players in my voting.

I’d honestly rather be voting elsewhere, but this vote seems prudent.

I’m still all for Blam NOT sending a message tonight if he has some other power that can give us information. Giving us that information toMorrow, and allowing us to lynch him then for confirmation of dotchan

Please add a ‘claimed’ before mason and remove the ‘other’ that occurs right before oft suspected.

I didn’t mean to imply that pede was confirmed or that he was oft suspected. He’s also not dead, is he? ;-D

[MHaye]

I think we’re at a tie now. thanks to Special Ed, who (if memory serves) was intending to vote BlaM earlier. I don’t know what happens in the event of a tie, but don’t think a no-lynch is in our favour.

Hal claimed Alpha Redshirt (I think).

The more BlaM revealed about his power claim, the more worried I got. He has nine separate powers, each of which can be used only once (except the last, which is used twice)? That seems an awful lot of powers to give to any Townsperson to me.

The precedent of Ardent from Skrull Planet has been cited; but it is worth noting that he had no idea what the powers actually did, and in a Mafia context, making powers random weakens the player. A player with this number of specific, known powers would have to be balanced by a very strong Deadite group. Then, if BlaM dies early the Deadite group runs roughshod over the rest.

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe BlaM is a Townsperson with those powers.

I don’t see him changing the paragraph numbering to give the impression of greater powers – if anything, he’d have started the numbering of the quoted powers at 1, then admitted he was hiding the exact number of powers, to reduce the likelihood of being taken out by the Deadites.

I can’t see this as a remotely plausible claim for a Deadite, either. It’s so unbelievable for this to be a Townsperson role the Deadites can’t possibly risk it.

That leaves BlaM as the PFK. Recent discussions on difficulties the third party roles have suggests to me that one way to help an otherwise weak role is to give them powers that help stave off death.

I really can’t see BlaM as anything other than a PFK.

I think we’ve got enough time to waste a mislycvh on a claimed vanilla, and sort BlaM Tomorrow.

The more BlaM revealed about his power claim, the more worried I got. He has nine separate powers, each of which can be used only once (except the last, which is used twice)? That seems an awful lot of powers to give to any Townsperson to me.

The precedent of Ardent from Skrull Planet has been cited; but it is worth noting that he had no idea what the powers actually did, and in a Mafia context, making powers random weakens the player. A player with this number of specific, known powers would have to be balanced by a very strong Deadite group. Then, if BlaM dies early the Deadite group runs roughshod over the rest.

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe BlaM is a Townsperson with those powers.

I don’t see him changing the paragraph numbering to give the impression of greater powers – if anything, he’d have started the numbering of the quoted powers at 1, then admitted he was hiding the exact number of powers, to reduce the likelihood of being taken out by the Deadites.

I can’t see this as a remotely plausible claim for a Deadite, either. It’s so unbelievable for this to be a Townsperson role the Deadites can’t possibly risk it.

That leaves BlaM as the PFK. Recent discussions on difficulties the third party roles have suggests to me that one way to help an otherwise weak role is to give them powers that help stave off death.

I really can’t see BlaM as anything other than a PFK.

[color=blue]Vote Blaster Master

Sorry BlaM.

[Natlaw]

I agree that if Blaster Master survives and he really is town, then using a power that helps to find scum would be better. Dead (by scum kill or lynch later) would confirm him anyway.

I hope the tie resolution isn’t to lynch both :eek:.

On preview we don;t have a tie anymore. Also Hal just claimed vanilla town.

[storyteller0910]

Wow. Heckova Day, there, kids. That’s all she wrote. I don’t have Dusk color pre-written, so it’s going to be a few minutes while I get it done. It might be a bit longer, if my wife gets mad that I’m still on the computer. Hang on a bit.

[Blaster_Master]

@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

Goddamnit Blam. One of these days I’ll know what you are, and I will be able to sleep again.

If I’m town, and you’re town, why would it be “bad luck” to target me with a potentially killing power that I somehow survive?

You see, I wasn’t just sending Storyteller what I wanted to do, I was also explaining to him my reasoning. I figured it would be good for posterity or anyone who may be watching to know what I was doing and why.

It was bad luck because my logic was that either you were scum, and killing you would be good, or you were at least a distraction, and by removing you, the town wouldn’t waste the whole day discussing you just to lynch you and find out you were town, when I could do that now. By my power failing, both of my contingencies were foiled, and I didn’t remove scum, and I didn’t prevent the possibility of the town wasting a Day on you and getting you lynched.

[Blaster_Master]

@MHaye

Vote Blaster Master

Sorry BlaM.

Feel sorry for the town, cause you just screwed us all.