Mafia: Evil Dead - DAY/NIGHT ONE

[brewha]

@peekercpa

My experience with this game is that trying to get this group on the same page is like trying to herd cats. It seems to be, generally, relatively easy to get a plurality. A little more difficult to get a majority. And, nigh on impossible to get an overwhelming concensus. If only us townies go along then it seems that too much information would be provided to the scum and any non town elements, if they exist.

Meh, my two cents.

Exactly. Deciding anything as a group is difficult. I’m not sure at this point if a mass role claim (or partial claim) is a good idea. What I am sure of is that it’ll take days to get the majority to weigh in on it.

And, if we do get a majority and tell everyone to role claim, then what? If the scum don’t want to claim, their not going to come out and say it. They’ll just not say anything - just chime in with a not about how hectic the holidays are and how they can’t get to a computer. And if we do get them cornered and make them tell us something, Story already posted a template from which they could copy.

Maybe it’d pay off long term, but I just think it would serve as too much a distraction. We’d be wasting time that could be used on talking about something useful.

[Almost_Human]

Congrats to peekkid#4. The Almostkids have done nothing talented other than not being here for Christmas, however, I greatly appreciate their absence so I’m not complaining.

On to game stuff, I’m really not getting the pleonast votes. From games I’ve played it’s perfectly normal to pick someone up on slips like pede made. I haven’t seen it on this particular board before but then I’ve only played one game here so far.

So anyway, I don’t see it as an indication of allignment either way.

In fact I find pede’s initial post more suspicious and this seems to have been swept under the carpet in the subsequent suspicion of pleo.

So to start the Day with a vote

vote pede

Most probably I’ll change this as the Day progresses but it’s the most suspicious thing to me so far.

I did consider doing the random vote thing but frankly I didn’t properly understand the explanation of why it was a good idea.

[Pleonast]

@JSexton

Wow, talk about squirrelly. So, were you just going to accept a simple response of “no, it’s not an admission of anything”? Because that’s the only logical response, regardless of ped’s actual role. And if there’s only one logical response, there there’s no point asking the freaking question.

Do you really believe Mafia players only give logical answers? Do you think poking someone to see their reaction is not a useful tactic?

No, despite some weasel wording, the real question was a push for ped to reveal role information. I simply see no other motivation for it. You list a matrix of possibilities, but here’s the thing: they only apply if you expect ped to give details of his role, which you just denied that you were looking for!

What? Are you sure you know how to play Mafia? Our goal is to determine other people’s alignment. Of course, I’m looking at everything in terms of those possibilities. I didn’t expect him to give details of his role, but I did expect to determine something about it from his reaction. This is not a difficult concept. I think I’m putting you back in my “newbie” mental category.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I’m thinking 5 Deadites, plus a third party or two, seems likely.

[peekercpa]

Mod question: Since apparently you and the other Mods, if any, will be having discussions not on this board. Can the rest of us get a link to either that board or be cc’ed on any PM traffic that you have?

Mods, if more than one, are not allowed to read past this line.

This might prove to be helpful.

But be really quiet about it or they might tell us to go to bed.

[macey]

@Pleonast

I’m thinking 5 Deadites, plus a third party or two, seems likely.

Third party? Is that because of the Alpha/Beta groups?

[MHaye]

@Almost_Human

In fact I find pede’s initial post more suspicious and this seems to have been swept under the carpet in the subsequent suspicion of pleo.

So to start the Day with a vote

vote pede

Most probably I’ll change this as the Day progresses but it’s the most suspicious thing to me so far.

Bleach applied to avoid confusing votecounts.

You’ve recent experience in this area, of course AH.

The main difference between your slip and Pedescribe’s case here (apart from the obvious one that we don’t yet know what Pedecribe’s alignment actually is) is that you came in as a sub on Day 2, and thus could plausibly assert you’d missed the posting of the vanilla PM. Pedescribe participated in the thread where the vanilla PMs were revealed, so he should know what they said. That makes me a little more suspicious of him than I otherwise might be.

I did consider doing the random vote thing but frankly I didn’t properly understand the explanation of why it was a good idea.

I dislike random voting.

Proponents of the idea seem to think that it promotes discussion; but once the victim has said “Oh, a random vote. How sweet of you,” what else is there to be said?

[MHaye]

@macey

Third party? Is that because of the Alpha/Beta groups?

“Third party” means a player who is neither a Townsperson nor a Mafiate. They typically have their own win conditions.

Off the top of my head, examples of simple third party roles are the Serial Killer and the Survivor. A straightforward Serial Killer kills once per Night. To win, they have to be the last person standing. A straightforward Survivor has to be alive when a team (or other third party) achieves their win condition. If they are, they win too.

We typically refer to these as PFKs. That stands for “Playing for Keeps” and originated in the Arkham Asylum game on Idle’s site.

[macey]

Cheers MHaye.

A PFK sounds reasonable, I suppose.

I was originally interpreting third party as meaning a separate bunch of baddies/recruiters or something.

[Trepa_Mayfield]

@peekercpa

Well I certainly, did not get Pleo’s response to pede’s comment as a request for him to claim, JSexton. I certainly did think that it was kind of a squirrelly comment to make, however. But in the absence of anything else it’s just, Hmmm at this point.

And just an observation on timing. We get a couple of extra days toDay but when we hit the real schedule there are going to be some quick turnarounds. I just hope that we have a sense of urgency.

Yeah, this is a really important point. While we can play in sort of a stream instead of Daynight, Daynight, we won’t have much time.

@macey

Pedescribe’s explanation:
Pedescribe, how often/many times have you played Mafia?

Saying your PM is pretty cool I can put down to being new after a couple games, but if you’ve played more than a few - you should know better, right?

Also I would interpret your explanation as a slight fib. The use of the ellipsis (…) is for purposely missing out words or more commonly misused as a pause.

The ellipsis used as a pause makes sense if you were talking about your PM, but if you were talking about the game (as a whole; as you say in your explanation) then why deliberately leave the most important part of the sentence out? And leave it for us to misinterpret.

I do feel that it is a genuine slip, but the explanation is rather awkward for me.

This would be my 6th, not counting the game I modded. And it is pretty cool. I mean, how many games start out with a scum being turned into a pink towel! Weird. :shrugs:

And AH, why do you think that my “slip” is scummy? If anything, it seems more a power role admission.

[Natlaw]

On rereading the rules, I see that we have roles with day actions and possibly roles that can post after death. Any idea what kind of day actions there could be?

Another thing is whether we can skip a lynch or not The rules say ‘there is a method of resolution for all ties’, but does that mean a random player gets lynched if there are no votes at all?
Of course in the last scenario a single person can vote to lynch someone at the last moment.

I’ll unvote Pleonast for now, since there were more people who said they would call on pedescribe’s slip. I think the slip could be either pro- or anti-town, so it’s not something to vote on now.

I guess I was a bit impatienced to get the game rolling. I think several people haven’t even posted yet, so let see what they got to contribute ;).

[bufftabby]

@pedescribe

If anything, it seems more a power role admission.

This sits wrong with me somehow.

Thinking in terms of possible motivation:

Vanilla Town: wants to hint at having a power role to avoid lynch without actually false claiming, or to draw scum to target vanilla instead of a PR. My estimated probability: maybe, but seems an awful self-sacrificial gambit for Day One.

Town power role: wants to die?! My est probability: doubtful. I can’t see a pro-Town reason for a power role to continue to emphasize their slip.

PFK/Scum: wants to softclaim to avoid lynch. Est prob: maybe. It might save a scum from having to hardclaim, desirable because of course a scum will have to falseclaim, which can be tricky for said scum. I can see a PFK not precisely having to falseclaim (SK says, “oh, I’m a vig” or somesuch), but the point on softclaiming to avoid complications from lying still stands.
I didn’t really think pede’s initial slip told much, but his latest emphasis on it (as quoted above) really rubs me wrong. I’m seeing the scum/PFK explanations as the simplest and most sensical motivations for pushing the I’m-a-power-role button repeatedly.

vote pedescribe

Metagame:
(I really like that the votes carry over Day to Day. It has always annoyed me that 2nd place lynch candidates get off the hook so easily (freakin’ Groundhog Day, over and over), and I’ve incorporated it into both games I’m working on right now.)
Fluff ahoy:
(peek, I hope to be you in 20 years. You are my hero. Just so you know.)

[bufftabby]

@JSexton

So where does it make sense to say “scum would never do that”? When the decision is between inaction, and taking an action that draws attention. If a suspect takes an action that doesn’t benefit scum, and had the option to simply doing nothing (and no one would be the wiser), then I tend to consider that a strong indicator of townieness.

I do agree with you on the scum, but we mustn’t forget the PFKs! I know, I know, we were discussing what scum would/wouldn’t do, but I suppose I really mean all anti-town elements and actions. I know some people (cough, cough) consider certain PFKs in with the scum for balancing purposes, and I agree that PFKs tend to be more harmful to Town than scum (as they don’t want the scum eliminated too quickly). But PFKs’ unique situation also allows them to behave in a markedly anti-scum behavior to gain Townie credibility. See the Gastard game for a fabulous, furry (if I do say so myself) example.

So I suppose what I really take issue with is that “anti-town elements would never do that!” because they might.
Sorry, I don’t think that was especially on-topic, but working on my own games has got me all meta-gamey.

[Almost_Human]

@MHaye

Bleach applied to avoid confusing votecounts.

You’ve recent experience in this area, of course AH.

I dislike random voting.

Proponents of the idea seem to think that it promotes discussion; but once the victim has said “Oh, a random vote. How sweet of you,” what else is there to be said?

(snipped)

Thanks for reminding me I cocked up in that game - you were onto me from the start!

And that’s exactly how I’d have reacted to a random vote being put on me. You’re not likely to get particularly worked up about it whatever your allignment.

@pedescribe

And AH, why do you think that my “slip” is scummy? If anything, it seems more a power role admission.

(snipped)

I thought it was the most suspicious thing that had come up so far. I didn’t find it “OMG that’s so scummy!” suspicious in the least and I said I’d likely take my vote off you later on in the Day once something better turned up.

After reading the buff’s post on your reaction though I’m thinking I may leave it where it is.

[Trepa_Mayfield]

@bufftabby

This sits wrong with me somehow.

Thinking in terms of possible motivation:

Vanilla Town: wants to hint at having a power role to avoid lynch without actually false claiming, or to draw scum to target vanilla instead of a PR. My estimated probability: maybe, but seems an awful self-sacrificial gambit for Day One.

Town power role: wants to die?! My est probability: doubtful. I can’t see a pro-Town reason for a power role to continue to emphasize their slip.

PFK/Scum: wants to softclaim to avoid lynch. Est prob: maybe. It might save a scum from having to hardclaim, desirable because of course a scum will have to falseclaim, which can be tricky for said scum. I can see a PFK not precisely having to falseclaim (SK says, “oh, I’m a vig” or somesuch), but the point on softclaiming to avoid complications from lying still stands.
I didn’t really think pede’s initial slip told much, but his latest emphasis on it (as quoted above) really rubs me wrong. I’m seeing the scum/PFK explanations as the simplest and most sensical motivations for pushing the I’m-a-power-role button repeatedly.

vote pedescribe

Metagame:
(I really like that the votes carry over Day to Day. It has always annoyed me that 2nd place lynch candidates get off the hook so easily (freakin’ Groundhog Day, over and over), and I’ve incorporated it into both games I’m working on right now.)
Fluff ahoy:
(peek, I hope to be you in 20 years. You are my hero. Just so you know.)

You all are the ones who keep bringing it up! I was ready to let the ambiguity drop, but if I’m getting votes for something I did, there’s no way in hell I’m gonna just ignore it. That’d be stupid.

[bufftabby]

Who told you to ignore it, pedescribe? It’s your specific reaction that has got me all :dubious:. Surely there’s another way to comment on the situation without saying “Look at me, I’m a power role!”, and that’s the route I feel Town would have gone.

[Hoopy_Frood]

@peekercpa

Mod question: Since apparently you and the other Mods, if any, will be having discussions not on this board. Can the rest of us get a link to either that board or be cc’ed on any PM traffic that you have?

There is only one mod. There are however, a few more of us watching this game spoiled. You can find the link at http://www.suckmyballspeeker.net/evildead

@pedescribe

And it is pretty cool. I mean, how many games start out with a scum being turned into a pink towel! Weird. :shrugs:

Hey, I’m not a scum, just a guess star. And while story’s inclusion of me in the color was unexpected, I’m pretty sure the pink towel is an allusion to the towel that either Arthur or Ford had with them throughout the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy series.

[bufftabby]

Or even the simple fact that to be well-prepared, one must always carry a towel.

[Hawkeyeop]

@bufftabby

I agree that PFKs tend to be more harmful to Town than scum (as they don’t want the scum eliminated too quickly).

No no no. PFK’s are almost always more harmful to scum than town.

I’m going to go ahead and vote

vote pedescribe

The slip could have been anything, but the subsequent attempts to explain it away are quite suspicious. He seems to be trying any explanation he can think of and hoping one sticks.

[bufftabby]

@hawkeyeop

No no no. PFK’s are almost always more harmful to scum than town.

Would you mind elaborating?

[Thing_Fish]

Still too damn quiet in here. On the one hand, that is good, since it allows me to read the thread carefully; but we have a lot of lurkers out there at the approximate halfway mark of Day One. Not good.

Since we have a lot of new faces here, I’m wondering if we should all say how many games we have played in before; it seems that several people have already said this makes a difference in how they evaluate a possible slip or otherwise odd comment. This is my third game as a player (no wins yet) and I’ve lurked pretty intensively in a few others, all on this board.

I am wondering how likely it is that we have PFKs. Obviously, there is no way to accurately judge that, but the impression I have is that most games do not feature PFKs. I’m wondering why Pleonast judged their presence “likely” in post 63.

And since it is getting to be high noon, I would like to set an example for 21 of you by posting something in blue…it’s easy and fun! Seems like we have two candidates so far. I agree that Pedescribe’s behavior is odd, first claiming that his “slip” was merely a comment about the color and then backtracking to strongly imply that it was a power role slip. However, at this point I’m seeing** Pleonast** as slightly scummier, mainly because of his erratic behavior on Night Zero.

This is from the old thread (and BTW, I am not seeing the advantage of having separate threads for each Day/Night cycle):

230 - Chucara posts her idea about everyone claiming fake targets. (I think this idea is sufficiently anti-Town to cast some suspicion on her as well, BTW).

231- Pleonast offers the first of several objections to the idea.

233- Rapier42 supports the idea.

238 - Pleonast votes Rapier42 for supporting the idea (why not vote Chucara for having suggested it in the first place?)

241 (12 realtime minutes later) - Pleonast comes out in favor of the idea! And keeps his vote on Rapier42!

The other piece of damning evidence I see against Pleonast is his smudge of **Pedescribe **for “ignoring him”. I know he explained it later, but I read it exactly the way Ped did originally and thought at the time it seemed very smudgy.

So, I may reconsider after sleeping on it, but for now vote Pleonast.