You’re right, you have repeated over and over why you think revealing early is better than later; and multiple people who are far more experienced mafia players than myself have pointed out why late claiming masons are more valuable to town. I’m curious why you’ve repeatedly ignored these people. There has to be a reason. I queried you based on the first two possible reasons I could think of. You keep saying you’re happy to answer questions and make clarifications, and yet for the most part you haven’t provided either. If you eventually flip town mason, I’ll be quite thrilled, but at this point I’m skeptical.
you’ve been awfully quiet and aside from your observation about “CatalizadorEnEspana” these are some very lazy votes
vote wombat99
I’m glad that you’re putting your thoughts about potential scum on record; if you are lynched and flip town, we can review them at least knowing that your intentions were pro-town, even if we disagree with specific points of your reasoning - thank you!
you mention a conspiracy to ‘save Chucara’ - I hadn’t noticed a pattern, but it’s worth taking a look.
there are any number of reasons for only two posts, especially early on in a game, so I would have to personally discount your vote against Weedy at this time.
Actually, I think this is a fair paraphrase - I just disagree that it’s weak. Scum don’t want to talk about cases but do want to be seen as participating - and so tend to jump on other topics with alacrity; scum always know when they’re doing something they shouldn’t, and frequently try to get their defence in first.
This is a misinterpretation/misrepresentation of my vote. I voted for Chucara yesterDay, and I was saying that I thought I had additional information to add to the case, but even without the additional information Chucara looked scummy.
This was mostly just curiousity on my part of what had made the Chucara voters change their mind. Especially in a multivote game, where you can leave your vote on the first person you found scummy while still voting for someone else who looks scummy, I think it is important to look at unvotes. You explained your unvote Yesterday when you made it:
But since you brought it up, would you care to share your feelings on Chucara toDay? You said to Wombat, “There have actually been some interesting cases made for a Chucara lynch, and I find it curious you don’t reference any of them”, and you did comment on some of them, but did not say why you had changed your mind on Chucara. Do you buy the whole ‘if Pizza was town then Chucara must be town’ scenario? Cause I don’t get it.
Thank you fubbles. I’m not great at making cases but I figure it’s better to do some breadcrumbs for Town to follow, FWIW. At this point it really is just as easy to be wrong or right with accusations, but maybe it’ll lead somewhere later.
And you’re probably right about Weedy’s two posts. It’s probably a belated wariness from that game–was it De’endee?–where she totally flew under the radar and led me through the nose until at the very end, I was forced to place a final vote between her, gnarlycharlie, and, um… good heavens it might have been Stanislaus! That’s funny. (Wait, maybe it wasn’t him; the game was teeming with “S” usernames, IIRC.) Anyway I chose wrong, got brutally slaughtered as the last Townie standing, thus losing the game for Town. It was really a no-win situation but boy, was it a harsh lesson!
(I could’ve sworn I’d been in three games, but now I can’t remember the third one. What the heck was my other game besides Phere? I’m almost certain that I made this huge spreadsheet that no one paid any attention to but helped me vote correctly for an awful lot of the endgames. I doubt I’d’ve done the spreadsheet thing for Phere, that seems like an awful lot of work spent in misleading on my part.
Anyway. As I mentioned there are 27 players, or I guess 25 with Val and Pleo gone, and I know we’re not hearing from a large contingent. Maybe they too prefer midgame to the starting Days. I should’ve followed my usual pattern.
Uh oh. Yipe, I think this means I’m Scum in real life. I’d totally apologize for breathing if I could!
I can’t do it. That response was too damn townie.
Unvote Choie
Also, to answer your question:
A scum-diggit has no reason to do this, because he either already knows who the masons are, or he’s not really mason and will be counterclaimed. He knows, or he isn’t a mason.
I think this is a reasonable vote. I’m getting the same feeling, hence my question above in those big ol’ posts.
Whaaaaaat? It can’t possibly be a misrepresentation of your vote if I use exactly what you said against you. You specifically say you were wrong about Pleo’s reason for saving Chucara, but right about Chucara anyway. And that rationale bothered me, hence the vote. I’m going on very little here, I admit, but your defense is groundless.
Are you intimating that these people have no reason for unvoting? Further, and I can’t easily look this up on my phone, but didn’t at least some of those names see their votes through?
Your first sentence disagrees with your second. You ask me to share my feelings, and then admit I’ve done just that. Regardless, I will go on record as supporting a Chucara lynch. Depending on the vote situation, I might vote for him as needed. My votes above represent the people who piqued my interest as I was catching up, and I wanted to record those suspicions.
My vote on fubbles is a weak tea vote based on a single incident. I like his vote for wombat, and might join him. I’m feeling better about my vote for you, though.
I’m pretty sure the reason Weedy hasn’t posted much in this game is that she’s not playing. This is her second post (Post 57 in this thread):
I’ve been having a tough time deciding how I feel about choie, but there’s one thing that’s tipping the scales at the moment.
choie, you voted for yourself because you’re less important than DiggitCamara, so you ought to be lynched instead of him. That’s very noble and altruistic, if a bit premature (coming as it was with well over 48 hours left in the Day, and only 3 posts after **Diggit’s **claim).
Then a few posts later you voted for Chucara. Since that point, you and **Chucara **have been in a neck-and-neck race. So here’s what I don’t get:
If you are Town, and you think **Chucara **is Scum, and the two of you are tied for the lynch, why are you still voting for yourself?
I can’t explain it, I don’t like it, and it makes me not trust you.
vote choie
I prefer Chucara over Choie.
Vote Chucara
Sure. I didn’t say you ARE riding a bandwagon. I said that scum like to ride bandwagons, and the fact that you *still *haven’t voted (at least, up to this post. I haven’t finished the thread) will make it extremely easy for you to just glom on to any group, without raising suspicion.
Except for the fact that I already have suspicions of you and will be very interested to see who you vote for and why. You’ve now had a week to sit and think about it. So who’s it gonna be?
Yes, seriously choie you’ve been bouncing back and forth in a tie with Chucura for the better part of two days and you have a vote on both! What the hell?
I don’t see any effort yesterDay to ‘save’ **Chucara **at **Pizzza’s **expense. Of the ‘late voters’ on Pizza who sealed the deal, I see **Pleonast **(Town, and who also voted for Pizza), **Suburban **(Town, though I don’t expect you to take my word for it), and **Chucara **(self-defense vote)…along with **USCDiver **and Dizzy. I just don’t see any great conspiracy there. If anything, it looks like a case of ‘Town vs. Town’, with the Scum happy to sit back and let us hang ourselves.
As for the non-reappearing votes on Chucara, I think it was simply a case of “it wasn’t really that great of a case to begin with, and it’s not Day 1 anymore, so we should find something better”. And we (as a collective) did appear to have found something better earlier on…two things, in fact. We had **DiggitCamara **getting heat for his apparent desire to have the Masons out themselves, and **choie **under suspicion for being quite certain that Pizza had been Town.
But then **Diggit **claimed Mason, and the case on him crumbled, leaving **choie **as the only valid alternative. And it was at this point that you spoke up to say “Hey! Why don’t we lynch **Chucara **again!” And as far as I can tell, other than defending yourself that has been your sole focus Today. I think someone is being protected here, but I don’t think it’s Chucara.
vote texCat
Oh fuckin’ hell. I suck. On the plus side, apparently a bunch of other people didn’t notice that one liner either.
Unvote Weedy
Yeah, well, this is what you might call a classic no-win situation. If I unvote for myself, there is no way in hell that won’t look scummy. Heck, look at Chucara’s unvote Yesterday. I’ve seen it time and time again in both live games and the archives I’ve read. If you cast a deciding vote against your lynch-tie-rival, you are scum. So saieth the masses.
Besides, I’m not sure enough about Chucara to exchange my life for his/hers.
I’d rather die a bit more passively than that, thank you. If I saved myself and Chucara flips Town, I’m dead next round anyway. When I die and flip Town, I know you’ll have accurate information, at least about what I’ve posted, and perhaps about those who’ve voted against me as well – at least, to the degree that votes against me are suspicious; I’ve put the spotlight on myself and I’ve pretty much earned the noose if it comes to that.
I’m more convinced of Guiri’s guilt than either me or Chacura. He was gonna catch up and post last night. This whole round, all he’s done was fire one vote at me almost immediately after his whole vendetta from D1, then added shots at the two people who basically just gave me vague “oh hi” waves, the kind you give to someone you sorta know but don’t remember her name so you don’t want to actually talk to her because she’s gonna find out and you’ll both be embarrassed. And then nothing? Why, because his vendetta was beginning to be sussed out? A tank that suddenly Goes Quiet is a scary thing.
So what should I do? Unvote me and Chacura on the vague hope that people will turn their attention to the suddenly silent anti-choie avenger?
That’s what I want to do. Right now I’m too confused to know what would be best for Town.
-
My death will benefit Town because at least this gives us (well, you, I’ll be dead) info about something, especially those who’ve been railroading me hardest and for the flimsiest of reasons. Maybe it’ll also help make my speculation seem more valuable. All this I know, 100%.
-
Chacura’s death may result in Scum, which is awesome. But it may result in a Town flip, and then you’ll go after me, and then we’ll get another Town flip. My death later will be of value, but since it will be later I start to worry of the law of diminishing returns. So this angle, I’m not certain of. We’ve got a 50-50 at best here, maybe 33-67, with us getting the shorter end of the percentage.
I fully admit I put myself in this position, out of frustration, a quick decision, one I partially regret, one I might not have made if I had a better constitution and a cooler head. Now all I know is that if I live, good, and maybe you’ll see I was willing to die to do my best for Town. If I die, it’s not great for me, but I think it’ll be worthwhile for Town at this stage of the game. Remove a distraction, get some more information in the bargain.
So I kinda think I have to see it through, come what may.
You do realize that’s the second time in a span of four posts that you’ve created a tie vote, don’t you? If you want ‘No Lynch’, you could just vote that way.
No we didn’t. For the second time, someone’s confused me with Chucara! I was never certain Pizza was Town–well, until he flipped, obviously–and not only was I the first person to vote for him, but I pretty much didn’t waver, except I did think that he seemed more scummy than Chucara, ironically enough.
Jesus. If I’m going to be lynched, for God’s sake at least lynch me for the right reason.
Choie, for future reference this looks pretty scummy. Unvoting yourself will get you no additional heat, and might remove some. You are 100% sure of your own role and win condition, and some number less than 100% sure of Chucara’s. From your perspective, lynching Chucara should be the right call. Self-defense votes have never increased my suspicion of someone.
I tried this gambit exactly once, playing the martyr for the benefit of town, in my very first game here. (LOTR mafia! Woot woot!)
I was “sure” Peeker was town, and wouldn’t vote him to save myself (we were tied). Town lynched scum correctly, and it wasn’t Peeker’s head in the noose. 
I doubt it will stay that way; there’s four hours yet left. I am voting for who I prefer.
(I see that part of my post has already been addressed, but I’ve been writing this post on and off for something like an hour now and already lost it once - I’m just going to finally post the damn thing).
OK, after more re-reading (setting my post-per-page count to 200 helped, actually [thanks Astral Rejection]) I’m more inclined to chalk Choie’s self-voting and multiple “go ahead and vote for me I’m better off dead” posts up to petulance more than what I called “extreme fatalism.”
Maybe I’m projecting, but I can understand petulance as a townie reaction pretty well. I’ve only been voted for a few times but, against all logic and gamesmanship, each vote really does feel like a tiny little attack against my character. So I get it. I do think Choie’s been overreacting to her detriment but I’m not prepared to prosecute the lynch right now.
I do wonder why (and I’ve double-and-triple-checked so I’m pretty sure I’m not fucking up right now) you still have your own self-vote active. You made the vote to save a claimed Mason, but Diggit is off the chopping block and you also have a vote on Chucara.
You need to either defend yourself or give yourself up for the noose (for whatever reason), but right now you’re doing both. Either way, my previous unvote will stand.
Moving on:
I honestly don’t grok the votes on Chucara. I know lots of people have their reasons but they’re not penetrating my brain. So I won’t vote there, either.
Regarding wombat:
I feel like fubbles and Astral Rejection are making a good point about his relative quietness and then weak votes. So, with similar reasoning for my vote on RedSkeezix, I will
vote wombat99