BTW, it is kind of interesting, after looking at the D1 voting, that Suburban did quickly slip in a final unvote on Pleo. It didn’t affect the final vote in any way–Suburban was the only one with a vote on Pleo at all. PIS? Did Suburban not want to be on the record as voting to lynch the town vig?
OTOH that seems like such an elementary giveaway that I don’t know if it means anything. I’ll just ask: Suburban, why did you waste an unvote on a guy with only one vote on him?
Everyone feel free to leap on me if this was already discussed.
**If **we assume that the message is true - my overall point is that I think there’s at least a decent reason (and plenty of time before the end of day) to at least *consider *possible Night Two obfuscation motivations rather than only considering Night One investigation motivations (which from out perspective boil down to “random player out of a hat” or “Cookies”, and that’s slim pretty pickings) when we consider the origin of the barn message.
I’m not defending Stanislaus and I’m certainly not claiming that Cookies is the investigator. I just think more conversation is better than immediately jumping on a wagon. Or to quote somebody from Day 1:
Last Night, Night 2, when the barn writer submitted the message, the investigator would presumably only have 1 result from Night 1. I don’t understand all this confusion about a 2nd investigation.
Hmm. You might be right. My thinking was just because according to the Barn rules, the messages are revealed right at Dawn; since it doesn’t say when they have to be submitted, couldn’t an investigator (or any role) know the results of that Night’s activities before then?
I admit I don’t know how the proper order of actions goes, but don’t roles get their results earlier than Dawn? Or no? The only role I’ve played was so unconventional I had no need to wait for any results on anything. Then again, the Barn is a new mechanic anyway, right? So there might not be any precedent for this.
choie, please read the Rules post AGAIN. We know there is a Town investigator, why have you ignored that post so many times?!
Also, the reason I said my earlier post was a brainfart is because the investigator got their Night 2 results at Dawn Today. Too late to add to a Barn message.
And how in the hell would Suburban know Pleo’s Role on Day 1?!
NETA: I suppose there could be a game in which Night results are given early enough to provide opportunity to act, but that is something I’ve never seen.
emphasis mine; it occurs to me that if he were to be lynched and turn scum, that would confirm that we in fact have an active investigator - I’ve been assuming that we have one, but I suppose it’s possible that we don’t?
ETA: I see that USCDiver is interpreting the rules post the same way I did initially. I would be very surprised if we don’t have an investigator, but saying that we can ‘expect’ one doesn’t necessarily guarantee one either.
My last post said nothing about assuming there wasn’t an investigator. The rules says we can expect roles such as blah blah and blah. Doesn’t mean every single one of them exists. I’m not believing anything 100%.
Fuck if I know. How in the hell did Pleo know there was a Serial Killer? Oh right, you’ll say: “He was told by the mod, DUH, you stupid idiot!” Okay, that seems unusual. Why did the mod tell him? “Because! Mods can do anything!” Fine, then couldn’t someone else also have a weird role with insider info that’s unconventional like that? “NO!!! RULES IS RULES DAMMIT!!”
Forgive me for not taking everything on face value the way you seem to. It’s amazing how you’re continually dismissing every possible clue in the narrative. “Color’s just color,” insists USCDiver. “No clues at all!”
Then frankly I don’t see why story is wasting time writing up any details in his/her posts. Just write a post at Dawn that says “Silver Jan et al. are all found dead in various ways I won’t bother to elaborate on because who gives a shit? They’re dead, that’s all that matters.”
I don’t know. I look for nuances in the text; it’s how I read. I’d find the game more fun if we were able to look for clues instead of just totting up numbers and getting paranoid. But that’s me.
But go ahead, assume everything means nothing, and nothing means anything. That’s working real well for us so far.
My comment about the rarity of investigators hitting scum was not maths based, but anecdotal. Still applies though. And it isn’t a paradox despite Meeko making it out to be one.
To me, this is obviously a fake message from scum. I would expect the investigator to actually sign his message. Something like “Stan is a wolf - The Cop”. There’s even two words left over from the word limit, so that message could have been signed, no problem. The use of “but” is troubling too, as I would not expect the Cop to be able to find the alpha, if the alpha means “godfather” like I think it does. And if the cop can’t find the alpha, why include that extra bit at all? In any case, “and” is the proper word to use there, if that information were to be genuine. The cop found a wolf on night 1! This is great news for town. “But” denotes some regret, possibly. But even without reading so deeply into this, I’m fairly certain our cop wouldn’t actually use the barn for this purpose, at least without some method of tying it back to themselves. We know (or at least strongly suspect) that Pleo left the note yesterDay because he signed it with his character name: the Butcher. Our Cop likely has their own unique name, which is absent in this message. If the Cop is nightkilled, we have no way of linking this message back to them.
So, it’s fake. The fakiest fake that ever faked its way across the barn. Stan is something, but that barn message is the opposite of a clue. And I have all the dubious smilies in the world for everyone who literally took a running leap onto the “lynch stan?” wagon.
So you think it’s wine, but we should do what it says anyway? The obvious answer to your question is “wait until somebody claims it, and decide then,” and I’m curious why you don’t advocate that, instead. I expect your retort will be “I wasn’t truly advocating it, just saying that’s the only way to get to the bottom of it.” But your fatalistic comment is the same to my mind as advocating it, and I expect a scum TexCat wants Stan lynched with little to point back at you.
Vote TexCat.
I think this is a weak vote, but not necessarily scummy.
My bold added for emphasis: do you seriously believe there is nothing to go on so far? Did you actually say anything that helps find scum in this post? Town lecturing and fatalism is a semi-reliable scum tell.
This is some seriously weak tea. There’s plenty of harm if the scum wrote that message, a possibility you fail to notice. You’re playing this game backwards, it seems; learning which barn messages are true or not does nothing to advance our win condition, and lynching people to test barn messages is silly.
Vote Dizzymrslizzy.
Choie voted next, but I’m simultaneously working on a separate post all for her, so that’ll follow this one.
No problem with this one. You used the barn message to kick off a case, not replace it. Stan has objections to it, which I’ll review later, but for now the case attempt itself doesn’t strike me as scummy.
Pedantic time: The “barn” isn’t a thing with its own agenda. One barn message could be accurate, and another could not. How does lynching Stan help us if it turns out that message wasn’t accurate? What from today will help us find scum if we all just vote Stan?
Replace “Stan” with “anyone town” and “you” with “the other town” and the long con becomes clear. Town wastes a day, lynches town, and is no closer to scum. Why would you consider the possibility this message is specifically targeted at you?
About the same if an investigator writes a message town necessarily can’t believe or link back to them, I’d guess.
Explain to me why this is the most likely possibility.
Storyteller likes to tell stories, as do lots of Mods who enjoy getting creative in their installments. Sometimes there can be clues, but I think such games fall firmly into Gastard territory, or at least non-straightforward setups, and this game is supposed to be straight forward, per the Mod. Why do I think that, and why am I inclined to think that ‘color is just color’ in this particular game?
Some people are trying to find clues there and some are purposefully not looking for clues there. It contributes to uncertainty and paranoia, which tips the scales toward an advantage for non-Town factions.
A Mod’s writing style and skill can have uneven results as far as interpretation by players, an uneven playing field so to speak, and I think good Mods try to even the field of play as much as possible in their designs and executions, again, avoiding things that might tip the scales toward an advantage for non-Town factions.
Sorry for the line-by-line quote thing, but there is so much wrong with this post I can’t do it any other way.
Um this part of your long post above seems to me to be obviously doubting the existence of an Investigator
OK, I could *maybe *see how you’d interpret the Rule in such a way. My interpretation (and I’d bet that of most everyone else) is that he means “Town has A, B, and power roles, Scum have X, Y, and Z. There may be others but these are definitely in there”
Um, don’t you think there is a HUGE difference between a player who is told “There is a Serial Killer” and one who is told “Pleonast is a Vigilante”? One is a tidbit of information about the set up. The other is a complete role reveal.
Look, I understand you are looking for information in every possible way, but in EVERY game I’ve ever played the Mod was doing their darnedest to be an impartial factor. Any good mod (and **story **is one of the best) would never intentionally give information in a color post that would help one team or the other. There have been games like you describe with no color, but the color is part of what makes the game entertaining. Look at your point from the other side, too. If story is trying to give us information in the Color posts then why doesn’t he just say “X was killed by Scum, Y was killed by the Serial Killer, etc” Because it wouldn’t be fair to either team. That’s why I say, “color is color”.
We have a long line of Choie positing things that don’t accurately reflect the game state, and this bothers me. A long while back, someone (Guiri, maybe? Mahaloth?) said that as scum, they like to float out intentionally mistaken ideas to distract town, and town often doesn’t lynch them for it because “scum wouldn’t do that.” So Choie’s constant repetition of “oh, forgot/didn’t know/didn’t see that” to fundamental (and easily found) game rules is troubling.
Compare these two posts:
1)
Choie is quick to parse out minute meanings about color and such, so it’s bizarre that she disregards explicit word-of-mod. Storyteller tells us we may expect cops, docs, vigs, and masons, and then in a follow-up paragraph outlines that other roles may or may not exist. The separation of those two groups - that is, between what we “may” expect," and what “may also be included,” indicates to me that we absolutely have cops, docs, vigs, masons, and maybe something else.
And, for the record, this still really bothers me, re: her vote on Chucara:
I should have said “In my opinion” and my opinion is open to change as the Day progresses. I agree with a large part of your post (see my post previously wondering about the mention of Alpha). But I’m not so eager to pass it off as obviously fake until we hear more from Stanislaus
I love how Astral told me to stop calling myself dumb or crap at this game, but then provides proof that I am. It can’t just be that this is literally my third game, and really only my second so-called normal game, and I just don’t understand things from 900 posts ago, or what the point there is in writing elaborate color that very specifically tells us (for example) that Pleo had a bloody knife in his hand, and gives us three different forms of death where someone is unrecognizable while others are far more mundanely killed, if story isn’t trying to be honest and set up a good mystery tale.
I think like a mystery reader, not like a computer or Mafia Bot the way many of the rest of you do.
Do me a favor, Town. When I’m lynched or NKed? Please look at everyone who dismisses everything I say. Especially USCDiver, Guiri – who’s not bothering to jump on me, notice, because others are now doing his job for him – and Astral, who snuggles me one minute and belittles me the next.
Actually I doubt you’ll do me any favors. I’m clearly too annoying and dumb to waste favors on. (Astral will claim I’m not crap at this, I’m super-brilliant and sinister; I’m playacting. When I flip, you’ll see who’s right.)
The only thing I’m going to cop to is that it was a lazy post. Lazy as in I did not go out of my way to quote my vote related posts over the past two Days. Because they’re still there and you can go read them if you feel so inclined. The only new information introduced since the last time I voted for Stanislaus was the barn message that allegedly outs him as a Wolf.
I wasn’t considering that until Stanislaus said I had ‘total faith’ in the message, which incidentally I don’t. I then acknowledged the possibility that the writer could be pandering to me because I was the only person voting for Stan previously. My intent questioning a ‘long con’ that involved pandering to me was because if someone was trying to catalyze a wagon on a Townie out of thin air by posting on the barn that they are a wolf, I have a feeling that there are some Townies who had received more heat than my one-off votes on Stan. If I were scum or PFK trying such a gambit I don’t know that I would have put the ball at the 9 yard line instead of the 7 yard line, so to speak.
