[Mafia game] The Realm of Phere

[Believerer]

@Normal_Phase

And Believerer, who I think could sell me the Brooklyn Bridge.

Am I forgetting anyone?

I’ve done it before, and I’ll do it again!

How London Bridge was sold to the States

[Normal_Phase]

@septimus

Why give a present to someone you “don’t trust”?

Right, him too.

[LightFoot]

And I took a look at ** gnarly charlie **
D1 contributions, - I’ve included the link since I didn’t quote the whole post/every post. The bits that got me are the ones I included here.
Speculation on number of scum
Doesn’t like the votes on Visorslash
Posts player gender list
Posts 3 methods to contact him privately
cites D1 votes being usually thin to mosier and septimus ( for their votes on Visorslash) and Votes mosier.
N1+ D2
the AWESOME post at the beginning of Night 1
I still read that as a wrong board post
But he excused it away here

wonders if there could be one Scum.
fubbles could be neutral or 3rd party
supports private messaging among players
his PIS theory
States that a vig may have been responsible for one of the kills
unvotes PetW ( for sounding honest) and reminds us that story and mahaloth have access issues
votes Weedy sounds self protective
the one Scum theorie again.
fubbles won’t be lynched anytime soon. Calls choie’s vote a waste
notes landslide on Astral, asks if Astral has claimed. Does not think we should be attacking Lord Phere

@gnarlycharlie

hey! i didn’t say vote for a wagon. you assumed that because i said a vote on fubbles was likely a waste. i meant he likely wasn’t going to get lynched. he has been discussed but there wasn’t a serious attempt to lynch him. you can build a case on someone else or agree with some other case and voted for that player.

do you mean the current loss of hit points? i don’t think we can tally hit points as they are not public knowledge.

so what else is new with my play? i’m diesel, a slow starter. by the way, that wasn’t a claim.

i’m usually even more quiet. but as i said earlier i have more time now and people have been calling me out for being quiet.

right. i remember that. somehow i thought was someone else.

back pedals on what I read as a call to vote a wagon @ choie’s vote.
Well, yes loss of hit points are publicly posted.
The last bit is where he was told what Astral had claimed.

D3

@gnarlycharlie

so Astral and Mosier are back in the game? although use of powers aren’t necessary to win, they sure may things more complicated.

Not sure how to read this?

@gnarlycharlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by choie
I’m afraid I’m still learning even after playing two whole games. Maybe when I’ve played 3494745939755 mafia games on 47393 different boards like you, I’ll catch up and understand the apparently massive difference between “voting for someone no one else is going to vote for but trying to convince people to do so nevertheless” and “voting for someone whom everyone has affirmatively chosen to unvote/exonerate and not trying to persuade them to jump back on that person’s bandwagon.” 'Cause again, I’m just not seeing why one of these vote choices is more worthless than the other.

i’d like to think we keep learning whether we’ve played two or 3,494,745,939,755 games. to elaborate on the discussion about fubbles, third party doesn’t mean against town. i believe you made comment to that effect. they can win with town or scum.

anyway, i felt your vote would be more productive elsewhere as he had been discussed but most felt he was harmless and wouldn’t be lynched.

:
Originally Posted by Believerer
Considering all the facts, it’s hardly surprising that I failed to post last day (or is it “Day” here?).
Normal Phase, Visorslash and ATPG know my playing style and it will become obvious how I prefer to play.
I did not lurk however, I was prohibited from posting earlier than I did. Now I’m around forever (and you shall know it).

i saw a reply to being questioned for this. can you elaborate? did you have restrictions or were you prohibited by lack of time?

:
Originally Posted by Silver Jan
Something else to keep in mind, the two players that have been resurrected were lynched, the players that are still dead were NK’d.

Yeah, I forgot to say 'bye to Guiri too and I am fairly convinced he was Town.

interesting observation.

:
Originally Posted by choie
NETA: I guess I should’ve said “good dead citizens” rather than Townies, since I forgot we can’t assume they’re Townies.

Fuck. Why is it this game contains sooo many mechanics I’m utterly unfamiliar with?! ARGH!*

• No I’m not a zombie.

i think a lot of us are unfamiliar so we’re just as confused as you are. i have played D&D and i’m still a bit lost.

:
Originally Posted by Mosier
Day bring out more bad feeling. Light hurt eyes. Night more comfort. Not so confusing in dark-time. I smarter, stronger at night.

does this mean you have abilities at Night? can you speak straight at Night?

:
Originally Posted by Astral Rejection
Gnarlycharlie’s vote for PetW. Click here to view it with quotes intact.
I called him out for this after he posted it, but it bears repeating: this is a weak reason to vote for someone. “Pressure” is a generally a fine reason to vote for someone, but it’s not a solid reason to jump onto a wagon. Gnarlycharlie was the third vote for PetW, and it feels like he was really reaching for something to say so that it wouldn’t be a “me too!” vote. Which is is, since he says “more pressure.” Weedy calls gnarly out for this post, which helps my town lean for Weedy. Her post felt honest.

are there rules for pressure voting that i’m unaware of? when was this again? D1, right? was i the only one with a weak vote?

Again with **choie ** and the D1 vote.
Apparently missed ** believerer’s ** explanation about joining us late.
Questions Mosier.

@gnarlycharlie

:
Originally Posted by Astral Rejection
Day 2, not Day 1. There aren’t “rules” for it, but you hopped on a wagon with a me-two vote.

In fact, I don’t understand any of your questions. I explain in the first section my feelings on that whole wagon, and I discuss Silver Jan at length as a suspicious person.

i stand corrected about the Day. it still doesn’t make pressure votes wrong. it also doesn’t make “me too” votes wrong either. if you agree with a case, why shouldn’t one place a vote in as well? isn’t that the point of making cases? you want people to agree with you. “me too” votes in themselves are neither townie or scummy.

what do you think of Suburban Plankton’s pressure vote?

@gnarlycharlie

i still can’t shake the feeling that based on color and powers, there’s only one scum. blue points to town. indigo and teal are neutral and red scum. scum gets a multitude of powers like triple votes and zombie creation. i think like his game in another board, we’ll see a ton of townie and neutral deaths before we’re done.

This is the third mention of “ only one Scum” What is charlie trying to accomplish with that?
Remember D1 when he speculated 5 or 6?

I did this for me, and since I went to the trouble I’m sharing it here.
I kept coming back to the one Scum theory and decided to peek harder.

[Gadarene]

@Normal_Phase

Then where do you think the triple votes come from? They’re clearly not town.

I still don’t think this is necessarily clear.

[LightFoot]

@Astral_Rejection

Normal’s day protection makes sense to me. If you remember from my full claim, I have an item that blocks 25 hit points of damage. Normal having a similar item that blocks at least 50 HP damage does not seem hard to believe. I think I remember her saying she has such an item.

The armor is likely unrelated to her class, is what I’m saying. Not really a package deal.

I missed the mention of the item, but I was thinking it was item related. my ’ package’ reference was just that. a nice combination of features

[Astral_Rejection]

Sorry, I misunderstood you then.

[LightFoot]

Separate post for * possibly * clarity

RE: ** gnarly charlie **

Multiple runs at a theory that is not holding any water.

Multiple ‘dings’ at ** choie ** for the “ vote that’s not going to kill anyone ”

Apparent backpedalling and saying “I didn’t tell you to vote a wagon”

Now, combine this with the “ awesome” post N1

And his eagerness to share all his PrivateMessage contact information to all. D1

It just smells funny to me.
** Vote gnarly charlie **

[Weedy]

If we have a one person Scum team, then this isn’t really a Mafia game. Which I am willing to believe is the case, but how on earth are we supposed to catch a single Scum? What kind of traces would they leave in their posts, what kind of strategy would they have?

If there is a multi-person ‘neutral’ team with an anti-Town wincon, then they are the Scum team, and the ‘lone Scum’ is a PFK.

[ToeJam]

@septimus

Why give a present to someone you “don’t trust”?

Why do I do anything?
Because I wanted to see what’d happen.

Who says I’m giving him the present anyways?
I can still unvote if it’s coming down to one vote.

[spoiler]
Elaboration for the squares:
Because I don’t expect anyone to vote along with it. It’s pretty much the equivalent of a self-vote of the item (I doubt anyone’s going to give me things).

And I wanted to see what’d happen if I voted an item to him in terms of the other players’ reactions. Yes, I’m spoiling this because I believe many players don’t actually like clicking through spoilers and reading them. Everyone knows skimming is a scum tell But i expect scummy players to click here. Wave to the camera. Gotcha, Scum! [/spoiler]

[ToeJam]

@Normal_Phase

So you think zombie Mosier is a bad guy, or the tool of one, but you want him to have the pendant? And you think maybe we should get around to trying to start killing zombies when it gets to 4 or 5, but 1 or 2’s not so bad?.

Story’s pretty much summed up my thoughts on that matter. 1 doesn’t tell me anything, 2 okay, 3 we start to worry.
But a single data point isn’t enough information.

Off the top of my head:
-Zombies are evil
-Zombies are Mad Bomber types by a single 3rd party/PFK group
-Zombies are fuel for a Necromancers, and more of them equals more power for the necromancer with unknown alignment of said necromancer.
-Zombies can be purified by white magic and turned into Pro-Town good guys/ Town confirmed players
-Zombies can be used up/sacrificed by another type
-Zombies can be investigative roles with alignments similar to every other player
-Zombies can be normal players, just having the Zombie Post Restriction during the Day
-Mosier could be making up the whole Zombie bullshit for fun.

All of those are just possibilities I’ve come up with in the last 3 mins sitting here. Can I say which of those is true at this point?
Nope.
If you can, feel free to share with the rest of us.
Until then, having more data points isn’t a bad thing. Hell if the second zombie shows up and points out Mosier is a liar and he has no post restriction or anything like that, then voila instant info.

-I personally believe lynching the Zombies isn’t really gaining much. If you’re anti-Zombies, just kill them. Apparently, Astral’s got 50% of his HP I believe he’s said. No reason yet to suspect that the** Zombie moiser** doesn’t have the same thing.

So again, I advocate for moderation, because I expect 2-3 players don’t listen to a fuck I say, and are going to hack that bastard up for pieces. Either way I get my own thoughts across, and I get more data from what happens. Win-win.

[Normal_Phase]

“just kill them” isn’t the impression I got from your first post, though. “Let’s let them live a while” is the impression I got.

[Gadarene]

@Weedy

If we have a one person Scum team, then this isn’t really a Mafia game. Which I am willing to believe is the case, but how on earth are we supposed to catch a single Scum? What kind of traces would they leave in their posts, what kind of strategy would they have?

If there is a multi-person ‘neutral’ team with an anti-Town wincon, then they are the Scum team, and the ‘lone Scum’ is a PFK.

Agree with all of this.

[LightFoot]

@Gadarene

Agree with all of this.

And since no further threats to Town
is the win con for many of us.

The non-Town will all eventually be considered a threat.

[ToeJam]

@Weedy

I have been thinking about the mechanics a little bit. If Scum have all the powers the demon seems to have, Town is doomed. He can triple vote, brink back lynched players, and can kill 2 people per night. Something doesn’t add up and I don’t understand what’s going on.

I wonder if “Evil” players can use the Demon Lord for their own nightly activities. How much is Flavor vs. how much is game mechanic?
I’m not sure if all those mechanics are all the work of a single player or group. Though it is interesting to note one less kill, one Zombie instead.

@Visorslash

Story, I read somewhere recently, and it is my opinion, that scum use that tactic. (The delaying tactic, etc)

The way he worded it, I don’t particularly like. Zombies are not good, they can die. They’re zombies, by default they’re evil.

Watch this:
Visor, I read somewhere recently, but it’s not my opinion, that scum use the hurrying tactic. They place quick votes, agitate the townies, and try to bully around the town and in general try to speed up things rather than talk things out and slow things down.

So you met a Scum that delayed. I’ve seen scum delay, and I’ve seen scum hurry up, hammer lynches, go absent and not talk, and I’ve seen **Storyteller **as Detective.
In the end it comes down to one thing- if you think of absolutes, you WILL get burned.
If you want my personal Mafia Playing Opinion:
Only Sith deal in Absolutes. Scum will do anything and everything that isn’t expected of them or assumed to be that “scum would never do that” and use that to their advantage.

Then again, I’ve not played in a while, and I’m only used to the scum from the Doper boards. If we have off-board players who are scum, they might play with your “absolute” view points and may be more simpler minded and foolish.

@Tanaer

I say we deal with this unnatural beast now.

Then kill it with your hands, don’t waste a lynch on it in my opinion.

I’m still curious to know if the thing can VOTE. Or do anything other than shuffle about during the Day vs. what does it do at Night (though there is the risk it could gain a NK during the Night, and again alignments and all are unknown, so it’s all WiFoM), when placed with that dilemma, I am of the wait and see mind, rather than the kill it with fire one. Because if the scum DID NOT create said Zombie, I’m sure they’d be just as worried about that unknown thing for them as would Townies, if not worried of a PFK/Win Stealer.

So it’s always nice to note peoples’ reactions to the unknown mechanisms and compare them to your own.

@storyteller0910

Actually, on some level, and given this, I would think that any player who voted to lynch someone and then didn’t vote to lynch them again upon their return from the dead, with no additional information since the first time, ought to have a damn good explanation for it. If (s)he was Scummy enough to vote for previously, and now is back and nothing has changed, why is (s)he no longer worth a vote?

Gotta disagree with you here, Story, though I do note that you added the addendum of “with no additional information since the first time”. When they die, we do know their morality and their role, which although not indicative of alignment, is still another data point. The roles do appear to be trackable slightly through the damage they can do and so forth, so when the role is revealed, we can try to muse through what their previous actions MAY have been vs. ruling out which ones are unlikely to be theirs. So will i suppose I’d agree with the whole “if no info was gained, then yeah a re-voting is likely”, but at the same time, you ARE gaining info from the deaths, and you’re gaining further info by seeing the Night kills and actions and all- did less people attack during the night, did a different style of attack appear, etc.
So we are not fully without info each and every time.
Again, YMMV though.

@Normal_Phase

You may have missed Mosier’s means of death, which came directly from the head baddy himself. That does suggest VERY strongly, IMO, that he was not scum at the time of his death.

Again, more WIFOM, but it’s my thoughts, I wonder if getting triple voted and lynched may lead to a Zombification later on down the road?

Again, more data points needed. But I wonder if they demon killing the players will force them to be resurrected, but that we won’t know until we see more players start to pop up… and in what order.

@Weedy

If we have a one person Scum team, then this isn’t really a Mafia game. Which I am willing to believe is the case, but how on earth are we supposed to catch a single Scum? What kind of traces would they leave in their posts, what kind of strategy would they have?

If there is a multi-person ‘neutral’ team with an anti-Town wincon, then they are the Scum team, and the ‘lone Scum’ is a PFK.

I agree with this line of reasoning. I don’t know if it’s the case, but I am willing to believe that a PFK player may be a “traitor” controlling the demon lord.
Hence the whole “multiple people may be using the demon lord” sorta deal.

[ToeJam]

@Normal_Phase

“just kill them” isn’t the impression I got from your first post, though. “Let’s let them live a while” is the impression I got.

Because I full expect it to be killed. But I’m for letting them live a while.
:shrug:

I don’t assume myself the King of you people, but I like sharing my thoughts.
If you wanted clarification, well, asked and received.

I personally like poking things with sticks and examining them to figure out what’s going on. Hypothesize and test. But some people just like to use the Bunsen burners to torch the whole thing to the ground.

Either way, Data’s gained.

[ToeJam]

Also, not “them” more like “it”. If we start to get MORE of the buggers, then obviously my opinions will change as well if we notice an uptick in attacks or night kills.

Then nuke the little bastards from orbit. No offense, ZoMose.

[ToeJam]

Actually. A good Q.

ZoMosier:

1. What would YOU like that we do with you? Poke you with sticks? Put you out of your misery with Magic? Are you a good lil’ Zombie or a fucking liar scum zombie who deserves to burn in hell?

2)Can You Vote?

[Normal_Phase]

NK is what worries me, ToeJam; that plus the lure of potentially getting a different death reveal from him this time, which may shed light on things. I’m not eager to lynch him; under the circumstances it seems less than likely to be informative about anyone else in the game, but I am worried about him and would prefer him dead(er). Which hopefully a vig could even do if he is a zombie, but failure is still information.

[Normal_Phase]

I have to get started on actually looking at people’s posts; expect that to begin after kiddo is in bed.

[ToeJam]

Do you actually think there is a “vig” in the sense of the word? Because technically we can all be “Vigs” to some degree. If you’re worried. You know what to do about it.