Totally fooled me. It’s funny now that I know it’s a joke, though 
Anybody feel like a hammering? I’m clearly the vote leader, I’d be down with it. I guess it’s up to pizza’s feelings, though.
This has already been hinted at by Gadarene, dude (I know you may be female, I was just raised by the Ninja Turtles).
He has pointed out that there is a win condition allowing a player to Win regardless of being alive/dead- amassing the most money to become resurrected.
So let me get this straight. We have to commit to a bandwagon, but when we do with a halfhearted reason because we are told to choose a wagon dammit, well we’re scum. If we want to pick someone new, we had better have a damn good reason, because otherwise we are just wasting our vote and avoiding responsibility and are scum. I am with Gadarene…yes we need to be suspicious, but more people are town than not, jumping down each other’s throats at the slightest thing is not helping cooperation.
Well, again, I think all the bandwagons SUCK. I started off thinking Astral was suspicious, but after his posts over the last days, I think he is town. Mostly the tone, I guess.
I wish PetW would talk about his mysterious protection, but beyond that, the reasons for his wagon (and the disappearance of such) are a mystery to me.
MHaye seems to have a similar nature to me and is getting roasted for it. Yeah, obviously I am going to go for that wagon. :rolleyes:
I just don’t have enough of a read of Weedy to want to vote for them.
Gadarene also just seems town to me…
So, yeah, maybe its because I’m new or maybe because I’m stupid, but I don’t find the cases for them all that convincing.
So, screw it. You want to know who I have found suspicious and off-putting the last few days?
Fine. Normal Phase come on up
I think choie has said it pretty well but this is for your penchant for both wanting people to choose a bandwagon and then roasting them over the coals for doing so, in addition to your abandoning your bandwagon of choice, so you can avoid responsibility for it yourself and have your own pet vote, which you know will never will win this Day.
Vote: Normal Phase
Oh and for good measure
Unvote Blue Pendant to Normal Phase
Vote Blue Pendant to Silver Jan
He’s certainly aware of it. I was talking to him for a while after Pizza had made the announcement – he said he hadn’t gotten his own PM yet and I told him he’d probably get it then at the same time as Pizza sent out all the PM updates. I haven’t seen him since. I’ve never seen him play scum so can’t really say whether the long delay is at all scummy – he has been known to evaporate occasionally as town but that doesn’t say much. I’d have expected him to be here by now.
So really none of the people whose votes I’m questioning can excuse it by having voted Astral previously.
That wasn’t a conscious implication of mine.
I win with the Town, alive or dead, and resurrection doesn’t enter into it. I assumed that language was standard – I can die on n1 and still win with the Town, if the Town wins.
I really liked this post actually, Astral. I too am surprised at the firmness that Normal was able to counter this one, but she may have information that I do not have, as I know I’m certainly not as sure about my vote, however, you are a distraction. But I believe your Role as Soldier/Archer- it is that wifom business with the demon, and again the Day 1 Wifom that gets me.
I can only hope in my own death, I can be as helpful as you have been. That said, I recall nothing about your “pairs”, and am not really that type of player- but once in Death, i shall know whether you are leading us down a wild goose chase vs. your honest thoughts (That said- I find it highly unlikely if you were truly 100% scummy that you’d want to lead us down the goose chase knowing that your death would reveal you as Scum, and it’d be moot. But at the very same time, I COULD see you as scum doing that to buy time right now, and also to start people down the path of wasting time as well as also to try to give that APPEARANCE of looking Townie and sparing you a lynch).
So while your post has a very Pro-Town feel to it, and I like it. I cannot really trust it just yet. But thank you for your information. MeThinks the Town is a bit too paranoid right now at trying to reveal more information, but hopefully we’re getting somewhere. Especially with the amount of behind the scenes stuff that’s going on right now.
That said. This post was an interesting Poisoning the Well post after Astral’s defense and last will and testament type of post.
I dislike it immensely as you’re basically helping to ensure a Lynch of Astral and smearing anyone who starts to think about consider Astral in a pro-Town light.
What was your motivation for posting that statement, Bob?
It was not a good one to make.
Did you hope scum WOULD jump off, or did you WANT scum to stay on the Astral wagon? Why not save that gem for after the lynch played out? You could have watched to see where the votes fell off, and if another Wagon develops, but this comment just ensures that Astral stays on the straight and narrow towards the Noose.
And another post that pings me a bit. I’ve already been suspicious of your “Townie” lists. But asking for a 2nd wagon just because you dislike “boring end of days”? :dubious:
If I wasn’t Voting for Astral, I think you would be Vote choice #2 right now.
Fubby, I think he’s acting exactly Pro-Town, but I don’t think he’s Not Town either. He’s just playing for himself right now.
Thats my suspicion list for right now if those who wanted to know where my head was at is wondering where it’s at.
Also, There was a post a while back about “Winning the game w/o attacking the Demon”, I disliked that one too. I think sure, you COULD win the game w/o using any powers and playing PURE Mafia- just like you could win a mafia game without any cops or doctors choosing to use their roles. But having them in the game certainly can make things EASIER. And so for those who want to attack the Demon, I think that’s not a bad idea- because if they’re TRYING to help, there’s no harm in that, unless you think it’s wasteful for people to target something that’s obviously anti-Town vs. random shots in the dark/people they’re suspicious of. Because these HP are going to add up- and if we’re into Day 6,7 and everyone is bleeding all over the place, we’re going to be in trouble if there are people who desire just wanting to attack others to gain kills or Alignment changes.
I think we should play a bit more conservative with our attacking roles, but at the same time, I don’t see the harm in people trying to attack the Demon over random shots in the dark.
To those who say “Well he’s our lynch mechansim, whatever will we do?”
–To that I say- "We’re ALL armed people in this Town, I’m sure pizzaguy will be able to write up the idea that we build a noose and just HANG our targets each Day if the Demon is gone. Or maybe we can at least wound the demon and force him to retreat- maybe he’s not dead, but he’ll stop his voting powers or such, and only come out to finish off our lynch mechanism or the NK mechanism.
I was talking about your quoted stuff about the 3rd party business with Fubs, (The whole amassing the most loot) not the implications of **your **win condition.
I believe if you check back on Day 1, I voiced suspicion of Astral as well as FOS’ed him but then voted for Gad.
I have but only one vote to give to the game. But nice try saying that we have to only stick with our previous choices of votes and can’t change our minds.
I know. What I’m saying is that my win condition is dead or alive as well, and resurrection isn’t any part of that as far as I know.
Whereas it’s exactly the tone that has me crawling half out of my skin with “SCUM HERE”, especially the section about Gadarene in the latest long post. It looks so incredibly constructed to me, towniness as as a pose (oh so reasonable, oh so fair, and so on) instead of towniness as it usually is, which is messy, frequently hypocritical, and often unfair. Choie launches a completely nonsensical-to-me attack, it makes me see her as town even though the attack is on me. Astral trying to look all high-minded and helpful? That reads as someone trying to make a good impression more than someone being really honest. Not town.
As an aside, I am sorry if I’m coming off as a terrible bully. Last night I was under the impression that the day was over in less than 24 hours, and the state of the bandwagons was horrific. So I pushed. But you’re not really being fair, regardless. I want certain things out of the bandwagons when vote nonsense like what’s in this game is in play and I get panicky when it looks like that won’t happen. But mostly I just want people to place some damn votes, with some kind of reason behind them, so it never comes down to the situation that I thought we were in last night. If the status were even like day one, with three or four well-supported bandwagons, it would not have freaked me out so much. Concensus can be reached fairly rapidly once a limited playing field has been established. But not when the highest vote getter is at a grand total of three adn the person who had had the most votes placed on him all day is now at zero!
Did you read the comments made about him by me and others? What do you not agree with?
:rolleyes: is a scum tell. /Askthepizzaguy
Again, what do you not agree with?
That can be fixed. Sometimes lack of a read is a scum tell in itself – means someone’s been actively trying to go unnoticed. I haven’t done due diligence on Weedy yet, but I will.
I almost hate saying this after all the water under the bridge between us thus far, but I kinda agree. I want to be paranoid, but it’s not sticking very well.
This is wrong – what you see as suspicious and off-putting IS how I play as town when I am going all out and all in as I am in this game, right down to the oddball vote placement at times – but still sounds townier than anything you’ve said so far. Your tone reads as honestly annoyed, and that works for me for the moment.
I know PetW is very unlikely to win the day now, but I didn’t know that at the time I switched, that the next five players were all going to vote for Astral. PetW is approximately as suspicious to me as Astral is and I wanted the bandwagon on him viable for as long as was reasonable so that more information would be available from votes down the road. Seeing the runaway on Astral was intensely frustrating.
Reading through the N1 discussion on what to do with attacks.
I suspect that attacking Lord Phere will be an ineffectual tactic. He’s ATPG’s avatar in the game, and ATPG won’t allow us to lynch Phere, so why allow us to kill him. This could be accomplished by damage reduction, fast healing or, (more likely) regeneration – which in D&D terms means you can’t kill the creature without dealing it a specific kind of damage. (The classic is that trolls can’t be killed unless you deal them fire or acid damage). I’m prepared to be proved wrong on that though. See what happens in the Day 2 battle report.
Weedy makes a good point in [post=14951101]post 580[/post] that Phere is a valid target for “other actions,” but we have already seen it can take damage. I just want to see if it can heal itself before agreeing to a full-scale crusade. It may be that we’re better served levelling up a few times (and changing classes) before launching attacks.
Equally, attacking a suspicious person isn’t a good idea except in certain limited circumstances where the player is outed as an anti-Town role. Since I can’t check what’s put in a PM sent to ATPG by (say) Normal Phase, any more than she can read my PMs, it’s almost impossible to ensure cooperation.
The origin of an attack is not revealed,. However, ATPG confirmed that the writeup reveals the source of protections in [post=14953378]post 645[/post].
I note in passing that in [post= 14952306]post 625[/post], Normal Phase argued that there was never a time that Visorslash and Mosier were both in danger. In fact, Mosier and Visorslash were tied on four votes from posts [post=14944494]313[/post] to [post=14945043]317[/post], a period of 5½ hours.
On the subject of the two extra votes placed on Mosier and Gadarene, the two basic possibilities are that there are players whos votes count double, or players who can add extra, hidden votes. We haven’t any way of differentiating between the two now; best to see what happens in future.
That brings me to the end of Night 1. There’s quite a bit I’ve skimmed over. If you’ve got any questions about specific issues I didn’t mention, perhaps you could ask me, and when I’ve caught up I’ll try and respond.
No, I have no special information. Whether I’m right or I’m wrong it’s all about how Astral is coming across in public posts.
I believe that too actually, just find it to be irrelevant. This being Pizza, I expect excellent town cover for the anti-town elements in the game.
I can’t remember, but have you ever made an comments regarding the death reveals, and how informative they are or are not likely to be? All we have gotten so far is “good”. Not “town”.
I think Astral’s trying imply that he will flip as “good”, though I have no idea why he wouldn’t just come out and say it.
I read that a bit differently. Bob isn’t actually voting for Astral and hasn’t given any indication of ever suspecting him (that I remember. If he has, the implications change greatly, I think). Assuming I’m not forgetting anything, though, I think it reads more as an honest prediction despite that it does have the effects you say.
I’m more interested in asking Bob what he has said previously about Astral.
I can see this (on Septimus). All in all this post leaves a much better impression than your last one. It’s just your approach to Astral himself that confuses me a bit.
I disagree, and I’ll probably be pushing for some sort of attack cooperation by tomorrow if I’m around. Whether it’s a factor of the game setup (unusually high number of not-wholly-town players presumably) or not, there are a ton of people who are either not participating (don’t need to be dealt with due to the wrath-of-demon rule unless they do turn up and start to play “barely there” - but COULd be, if someone just needs attacks to go to their preferred alignment status or some such) or who are barely present. Historically this group has been very bad at lynching people who barely post. Vigging is a way to deal with that problem.
Cooperation is a different matter, and attacks shouldn’t be ruled out just because cooperation can’t be assured any more than lynching should be ruled out because some scum might toss in a bus vote. It’s just something that has to be taken into consideration, IMO.
I just went back to look at that and in post 316, Inner has Gadarene at 6 votes, Visor at 4 and Mosier at 3 – the vote at 317 from Septimus reduces Visor to 3 as well. I think you’re wrong?
Correct.
Noted.
I don’t think it will work, but perhaps you’re right that it should be tried. Once we’re out of the early game perhaps it’ll be worth a try.
I have the following votes for Mosier; Normal Phase @ 65, Lightfoot @ 237, Suburban Plankton @ 308 and Gnarlycharlie @ 313. This agrees with the final Day tally in 377, and on a quick scan I failed to note you voting for Mosier between 316 and 377.
Inner missed your vote. That’s OK; he may have been Good but that doesn’t make him infallible.
I must be getting really tired if I didn’t even note the absence of my own vote. OK. I’d still rate it very unlikely to be significant due to the timing – if you wanted to be sure Visor would survive at that point, you’d almost have to put the extra votes on Gadarene, not Mosier. (Inner said something like a day to go.)
At this point, I’d probably rate it as “unlikely but we can’t afford to dismiss it.” There was that five-hour window. On the other hand, I agree that if the purpose was to protect Visorslash, it would have been easier to load the votes onto Gad or Astral.
On with the early part of Today.
Day 2 begins with a discussion of item voting. Some people are uneasy about deals because they think the Mafia will simply set up deals to vote the items to each other. Indeed that may be so; but if a substantial number of Townspeople refuse to participate in the voting, that simplifies the Mafia’s task considerably. So perhaps Townies should vote just to try and steer an item towards a player you think Town. And don’t try claiming Town credit for staying out of the item dealing – it’s anti-Town by allowing the Mafia greater say.
That applies to me too, of course, but I still have a lot of posts to reread.
Also remember, there is a limit on the number of items a player can hold, dependent on experience level. I don’t believe that a player who’s goal is to accumulate wealth would have a higher limit than anyone else of their experience level. It would make it too easy to win,just by accumulating more. A player with a low item limit needs to attempt to evaluate the items and choose the most valuable.
In [post=14959116]post 855[/post], Suburban Plankton alleges that Gadarene dialled back the strength of his accusation against fubbleskag when challenged. Gadarene responded in [post=14959180]post 857[/post] that his original accusation had not been nearly as certain as Suburban claimed, quoting the post, in which he had used the phrase “reason to believe.”
I find Gadarene’s explanation of why he phrased his accusation the way he did fairly believable. IIRC he works in a court. He may read that phrase somewhat differently to people who don’t work in a legal field. However, there is one thing Gad has not yet told us; the name of his source. So he can’t claim to have told us everything. He’s discussed the reasons for holding back a little later in the page, and they sound reasonable.
Enough for now. Back tomorrow afternoon with more – sleep calls.
Is it blue or red for unvotes?
unvote
unvote
vote: MHaye
I feel like he should have a lot more to say if he’s reading through the thread than discussing item votes (which he still doesnt vote) and Gadarene’s legal experience. He’s reading closely enough to keep track of votes, but is just touching lightly on a few issues in commentary.
I think the triple votes on Astral were a smoke screen. I think the votes were placed on him and then removed to make him look really scummy. It appears to have worked, since by the vote tally in #1237, there were 7 (or 8, if Weedy’s vote counts) votes on him after the triple votes were removed.
Astral publishes his Last Will and Testament #1274, claiming to be pro-Town.
I fully anticipate that the 2 or 3 Scum I believe currently have their votes on Astral are going to jump off the wagon and save him, knowing full well that if he does not get lynched toDay, then he will be the #1 bandwagon toMorrow.
I don’t think that it was a “Poisoning the Well” kind of statement. If someone wants to jump off a bandwagon, let him or her do so. However, I would expect them to have a really good case against the person for whom they switched their vote.
I don’t see it as ensuring Astral’s lynch, but if he’s going to be lynched, at least his death will not have been in vain. If he flips Town, then everything he has said about his reads on the other players becomes worthy of careful study. If he flips Scum, well, then we know that his reads on the other players are just WIFOM and crap.
As far as “saving that gem for after the lynch”, it has been my experience that people don’t pay any attention to those who are full of 20/20 hindsight.
realitytrip, I don’t think your votes in #1303 are going to count in their present state, since they must be in bold. (See #149).
Why do you care so much? Is my vote somehow more important than all the others?
The reason I was ‘still voting for you’ at that point is because I hadn’t found anyone I thought was more suspicious back on Friday afternoon when I was actually following the game, and I hadn’t had more than 5 minutes at t time to read the thread since…
I’ve now spent the last couple hours getting caught up. Give me a bit of time to digest what I speed-read this evening, and I might be able to make something of it.
In the meantime, I’ll start here…
Someone did PM me claiming to he your informant. They did mention the extra win condition, and basically corroborated what you have posted.
That being said, the informant didn’t claim to have ‘inside information’, but rather to have heard this info from an unnamed third (fourth?) party, with no way to prove the information was correct.
The reason I voted for you in the first place is that I felt you were claiming that you had ‘secret knowledge’ of **fubbleskag’s **Game Alignment and Win Condition, when in fact you had no such knowledge. It seemed to me that you were making an effort to drum up suspicion of fubbleskag in order to get him lynched. All descriptions of this supposed ‘Extra Party Win Condition’ suggest that the role, if it exists at all, is probably ‘Third Party’ (non-exclusive, sharing a win with Town or Scum) rather than ‘PFK’ (exclusive, stealing a win from all other players); for this reason, I can’t understand why you would have been so bent on getting fubbleskag to admit to his role.
I’m still suspicious of you at this point, so I’m not removing my vote at this time.
As for our vote leader, I think the way that bandwagon picked up speed a while back is scary. I believe that **Astral **is exactly what he has told us he is: an Archer with 400 HP. Whether that means he’s Town is not is another thing entirely, of course…and I’m not sure if he’s ever actually come out and claimed he was Town.
And with that. I’m off to bed. I *will *have more to say in the morning.