[Mafia game] The Realm of Phere

[Weedy]

Upon inspection of his remains, they noticed that Astral Rejection seemed to be dressed like an ordinary Archer, and there was nothing sinister about him. Reluctantly, they were forced to conclude that a Good Adventurer was slain.

The items from the previous day were distributed to their new owners.

For reference.

[Believerer]

**Pendant: Believerer
**

Only one vote for the lynch so far? Are people scared to be called out?

[Gadarene]

Vote: Believerer

Does that help?

[Astral_Rejection]

@Believerer

**Pendant: Believerer
**

Only one vote for the lynch so far? Are people scared to be called out?

The day is like three hours old. I like early votes as much as the next guy, but don’t you think it’s a little premature to be calling out others for not voting?

[Visorslash]

@Gadarene

No reveal games make me sad and frustrated. The fundamental nature of Mafia is that there is an initial informational asymmetry in favor of scum, and an initial numerical asymmetry in favor of town, but that as players die and their information is revealed, both asymmetries progressively equalize. In other words, Town gets screwed if it doesn’t know more than it started with a few Days down the line.

Can those of you who have successfully and unfrustratingly played with no-reveal games in the past please tell me the optimal Town strategy, beyond shooting blindly at suspicious people?

Basically, choose who you think is scum, then suggest a case, then try to lynch them. It’s easier in a vanilla setting, but still, it isn’t impossible.

[Visorslash]

Evil, Good and Neutral are all alignments that can be changed. So we may have a scum that is Lawful Good for example. Read nothing into the alignments, because they can’t mean anything.

I bet we will know when we have lynched this “traitor” though.

Tentative: Vote: Choie

May change later on depending on how the day goes, but for now, time to sleep.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Believerer

**Pendant: Believerer
**

Only one vote for the lynch so far? Are people scared to be called out?

Your first daytime post, and that’s all you have to say?

:dubious:

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Astral_Rejection

… well that kinda sucks. You guys don’t actually know if I’m town, then. Or if anybody we’ve killed is town.

I assume there’s one or more power roles out there, figuring this stuff out. Hopefully they’re breadcrumbing in case they die.

@Scathach

Humph. This has become essentially a no-reveal game then

Pizza has mentioned in the past how he likes to make the Town ‘figure things out’ by player analysis, rather than ‘have answers handed to them’ by Power Roles, so it’s not surprising this is a ‘no-reveal’ game. It fits his style.

As far as Moral Alignment =/= Game Alignment:

I can wrap my head around the idea of ‘Chaotic’ Townies of ‘Lawful’ Scum, but I just can’t see how we could have ‘Evil’ Townies or ‘Good’ Scum. Which brings me back to the point I raised earlier, which is that I don’t think we’re looking at a traditional ‘Town vs. Scum (with maybe a 3rd party or two thrown in for flavor)’ game. I think we’re looking at a multi-faction game with several different ‘Town-like’ groups, and a very small number of ‘Scum-like’ players.

Since it appears that all the people of the land have come together to fight the Demon Lord, it could be that everyone, with the exception of the Traitor, is ‘Good’; after all, they’re trying to save the land from Evil. So I’m not putting much stock in anyone’s Moral Alignment until somebody turns up ‘Evil’ or ‘Neutral’.

[Scathach]

@Suburban_Plankton

but I just can’t see how we could have ‘Evil’ Townies or ‘Good’ Scum.

@Askthepizzaguy

Alignment Shift:

During the day or night, you may perform an action which affects the karma of your character. Good or lawful actions may shift you in that direction, unlawful or violent actions may shift you in the other direction. Note that townies can turn Good, Neutral, or Evil, and that Lawful, Neutral, and **Chaotic **aligned characters can all be townies.

It seems like it’s explicitly stated that we can.

Although, a thought strikes me, it does say townies can TURN good, neutral or evil, but that lawful,neutral,chaotic can all BE townies.

(ah my tinfoil hat - I never feel like I’m playing mafia without it)

[Suburban_Plankton]

One small snippet from **choie’s **recent ‘Wall of Words’ post:

@choie

I’m trying to do what Normal and others have been pressuring me to do, even though Normal herself isn’t doing it, because they are more experienced and y’know, maybe I’m wrong. Leaves a bitter taste in my mouth but I do as the majority of the posters want me to do.

Why are you doing what **Normal **(and others) tell you? Unless they are confirmed Town, that’s not a terribly wise choice.

And if you don’t take full responsibility for your own votes, then we’re going to have no choice but to lynch you, because any Town player who allows themselves to be manipulated into voting against their better judgement is basically just a tool for Scum, which we cannot afford.

Now, it’s entirely possible that if you vote your conscience and staunchly defend your votes, we might not like them and still lynch you anyway, but at least at that point we can gain something from your death. If you just meekly ‘do as you’re told’, then you provide us absolutely no information.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@MHaye

We now know who the double-voters are, so we can take into account the effects of their powers when calculating how close a vote race is, so that isn’t so much of a problem.

Do we know who both of the Double Voters are? I know Normal Phase has admitted to being one of them, but I thought that we still had two possible candidates for the second (**ToeJam **and Visorslash, IIRC). Did one of them admit to being the second?

[Normal_Phase]

@Astral_Rejection

I never did, on the off chance scum don’t have access to it. They likely do, but I didn’t see a pressing need when I claimed.

I’d like to see your character details in particular, Normal. If you feel like it, could you PM me your capabilities and class info?

I’m considering just doing it publicly, given I have a couple of guaranteed votes on me anyway and given how much I’ve already revealed. I may as well be explicit: the reason that I want to know what a soldier can change to is because I want to know whether or not I would be making the double-voter power easily accessible in the process; and if so, whether or not I should reveal the name of my character class. What my class can actually do, I don’t consider particularly sensitive. Send me a PM as to where you stand on all of that, if you would. (And was I right that you tried to perforate me?)

Re: my previous post – correction on my Mosier assessment that I only realized after I was out the door: he would not have been ‘born’ scum absent Pizza being total bastard, since it was Lord Phere’s votes that lynched him in the first place. That leaves two possibilities IMO – sheer chaos and some sort of death-mediated alignment change.

Regarding no-reveal games, all I can really say, having played a bunch of them, is just to fight getting demoralized. Every day is day one in terms of mod-provided information, is all. You just keep fighting to lynch the scummiest people until you win or you die. There’s nothing else to do, but if you don’t do it, you will lose (speaking as town). Scumhunting is not really any different than usual except for the inability to ever be certain about anything and vote records being less useful than otherwise.

I’m still not certain this is a wholly no-reveal game; or that this plethora of good alignments implies nothing about those who are otherwise; but I can’t think of any way to tell.

[Normal_Phase]

@Suburban_Plankton

Do we know who both of the Double Voters are? I know Normal Phase has admitted to being one of them, but I thought that we still had two possible candidates for the second (**ToeJam **and Visorslash, IIRC). Did one of them admit to being the second?

It’s Visor, though I don’t know if the confusion about his item votes was ever nailed down.

**Pizza? points to comment **

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Scathach

It seems like it’s explicitly stated that we can.

Although, a thought strikes me, it does say townies can TURN good, neutral or evil, but that lawful,neutral,chaotic can all BE townies.

(ah my tinfoil hat - I never feel like I’m playing mafia without it)

I also notice that it doesn’t say *anything *about the possible Alignments for Scum.

Might you have a bit of tinfoil you can spare?

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Normal_Phase

It’s Visor, though I don’t know if the confusion about his item votes was ever nailed down.

**Pizza? points to comment **

You’re assuming this because of the multiple item-votes for Visor?

If that’s the only reason, then I’ll pencil him in as the second Double-Voter, but I’m not putting it in ink until there’s some solid evidence.

[Normal_Phase]

@Astral_Rejection

… well that kinda sucks. You guys don’t actually know if I’m town, then. Or if anybody we’ve killed is town.

I assume there’s one or more power roles out there, figuring this stuff out. Hopefully they’re breadcrumbing in case they die.

Please stop pinging me. It’s not good for my sanity.

There was one request of mine from yesterday that you never responded to, that I’d really like to see you do now that you’re around again. Namely, look at who among your defenders and the people who were wishy-washy about you looks suspicious. Danke.

[Normal_Phase]

@Suburban_Plankton

You’re assuming this because of the multiple item-votes for Visor?

If that’s the only reason, then I’ll pencil him in as the second Double-Voter, but I’m not putting it in ink until there’s some solid evidence.

I consider that solid enough, given that I have multiple item votes as well and given that he (unlike ToeJam) didn’t deny it.

[Astral_Rejection]

Normal Phase:
Yes, I tried to shoot you. I found it curious that you could avoid my damage entirely without a guard from someone else, but of course I was dead and couldn’t say anything about that.

Up to you on what you do now. Reveal publicly, PM me, or tell me to go lick a walnut and stay silent on the issue. I trust you to act in what you believe is the most pro-town manner, if you’re town.

[Normal_Phase]

Will you tell me the soldier’s promotion options?

[Astral_Rejection]

@Normal_Phase

Please stop pinging me. It’s not good for my sanity.

I think we’ve thoroughly established you don’t know how to read me, so… I’ll try? I’m still just typing like me, not much I can do about that.

There was one request of mine from yesterday that you never responded to, that I’d really like to see you do now that you’re around again. Namely, look at who among your defenders and the people who were wishy-washy about you looks suspicious. Danke.

That’s a “wait til I’m home” request. I’ll do it later tonight.