As far as I can tell, the reason you two are butting heads is because you think Normal Phase was telling you to unvote fubbles because yours was the only vote on him, when in fact she was saying to unvote because there was no support at all for a fubbles lynch. So while she did then vote for PetW in a one off, it was different because there had been a sizeable wagon on him earlier which had dropped to 0 again quite quickly.
my bolding
Now what I can’t decide is whether choie is misunderstanding or misrepresenting.
Ah, I had missed **ToeJam’s **denial (I just went back and found the post now). That does seem to answer the question, though I’d still like to see a final corrected Item Vote Count.
Visorslash, will you either confirm or deny that you are a Double-Voter?
I’m not sure who you are including in “we” here…but I think it’s a good idea for you to reveal the Soldier promotion options. That is, I can’t think of any reason for you to keep it secret…though I doubt it’s going to actually help us in terms of finding the Bad Guys.
Wow. Welcome back, Astral and Mosier. Though Mosier obviously is a bit worrying, considering I can’t imagine Lord Phere raising him for our benefit. I’ve never played a game with ressurections before, so this brings yet another angle for me to chew on. (Does one chew on angles?)
Normal, your quoting from your PM is non-kosher. Please be careful of that!
Huh? I figured that out on my own, obviously. I realized it was wrong to let them pressure me and voted my own choice. Of course you’re free to mistrust me for letting them get to me for a while, but it seems kind of unfair to chide me for behavior that I eventually corrected and acknowledged was a mistake.
As to this:
That’s a fair vote since I can understand being confused, but honestly I’m even more confused (I was up pretty late last night/this a.m.) because I don’t see a quantitative difference between the two.
By the time I’d seen that she’d changed her mind to vote PetW, the Astral vote was getting to be a fait accompli (it was before the landslide began but at that point he did have six votes on him–I think Visorslash and Silver Jan had joined her and septimus, not to mention the three pizza votes). And I don’t recall her making any effort to convince people to vote for PetW over Astral. (If she didmake a concerted effort to push people to vote for PetW instead of Astral, I stand corrected. But all I see after her PetW vote is:
which doesn’t exactly seem like a rousing “Switch to PetW guys!” kinda speech to me. In fact in looking back during that time period from switching to PetW and then switching back to Astral, she continued to tar Astral far more than making any case on PetW)
So what’s the difference between voting for someone you think is scum that you can’t convince others to vote for although you try to do so (what I had been doing with fubbles), and voting for someone you think is scum that you don’t try to convince others to vote for (what she did after switching from Astral to PetW)?
I guess I’m saying you should pin this down to misunderstanding because, swear to God, I still don’t see a difference between the two when it comes to the bottom line.
…and crap, I’m sorry, pizzaguy, for forgetting to bleach the vote on me. Proof of my tiredness, especially after haranguing everyone to do this myself.
What quoting, the “town” and “good” thing? I don’t think that crosses the line. It wasn’t even a quote, technically, just my memory of the “town” category being different from the “good” category.
Well, scathach does have it right, whether you see a distinction or not. I included PetW in the group of players who stood a good chance to get lynched at that point; you seem never to have acknowledged that, or seen it as meaningful, or something.
All right, here’s where you seem to be doing the very thing that Astral was accusing me of doing to him. You see one thing you don’t understand, and rather than making an effort to determine whether there might be any town motivation behind it that you might have missed, you determine that “I don’t understand this” = “this is scum” and fit everything else around it into that picture.
Until Astral made his farewell post and triggered the ever-loving crap out of my scumdar for the second time, I could not have told you which of him and PetW I found more suspicious. So why should I have pushed for either of them to be lynched over the other? Why do anything other than what I did do, which was to keep the vote fluid to the best of my ability (which wasn’t much) and see where people jumped? I had made my suspicions of each of them perfectly clear, as well as my belief that end of day votes belonged in a limited pool that included the both of them. Why would you even expect me to do anything else?
Well, technically no. You have never to this point – correct me if I’m wrong – expressed any actual suspicion of fubbles AS SCUM. Only as third party, correct?
That was a strange and pleasant turn of events. I have felt so guilty at having a hand in Astrals death although he did point out that we still can’t be sure he is Town but it’s really starting to like as if he is. Mosier didn’t even have a chance to defend himself on D1, it will be interesting to see what he has to say.
Pendant: Silver Jan
I like jewels and I see Believerer has voted for himself.
Glad to see you berated yourself for not bleaching a vote** Choie**, you saved me some trouble hehehe.
I can’t really see a case on** Choie** yet, she seems to be playing the same way she normally does. There are a few players that I have a Town lean on and they are all accusing each other of being scum.
I think** PetW** is worth having another look at because I also seem to have been wrong about** Guiri**.
Zombie Mosier stumbles toward the group of heroic warriors gathering to protect the town. He looks at all of the delicious flesh around him.
“You been buuuusy since I die. Tell me everything…nevermind, it is tooooooo much.” Mosier is swaying back and forth like a tree limb in the breeze. “Actually, just sum it up. Who is bad? I eat their braaaains out. Is it day, or night? My eyes not work so good no more.”
I really don’t know what pizzaguy’s cutoff is as far as how much we can say. All I know is in his original rules he said no quoting from PMs period – you can say “I’m a mage” but no OOC quoting from the PM. It’s a fuzzy line to be sure. I just don’t want you to cross it. If you end up getting killed I’d rather it be by lynching, not by mod fiat.
But how did PetW have a shot at being lynched when there were literally no votes on PetW and everyone who’d at one time voted PetW had specifically decided to unvote, presumably no longer thinking PetW was scum?
And as I said, you didn’t make any further attempts to get people to agree with you, so where was this sudden vote swing from Astral back to PetW – a swing at the time that you didn’t even really want (if I’m understanding your “reducing votes on Astral = blech” remark correctly) – where was this switch gonna come from?
I’m not saying this because I’m mischaracterizing facts to prove my own thesis; this is just what happened, no judgment whatsoever either way.
Sucks to be hoisted on the end of your own petard, huh? But anyway, as I said above, I’m not trying to prove you scum, I’m recounting the plain facts, at least as I remembered them and subsequently backed that up by looking for whatever posts you may have made trying to plead the case to vote for PetW and found none. I was defending myself as non-scum, not calling YOU scum.
I mean, yeah, I do suspect you’re scum, but I really don’t think I’ve misstated any facts here, nor do I think I’ve tilted them one way or another. Maybe I have and I just can’t see it, in which case I’m genuinely sorry.
Because what was the point of just hopping to PetW to “keep the vote fluid” if a) everyone had already tried that bandwagon earlier and then decided against it, and b) you weren’t going to try to sway others to vote the same way? I’m sorry, I just do not understand this. Maybe I’m lacking the correct Mafia gene, but it’s a strategy that is utterly beyond me. Which I’m assuming is my fault, not yours.
I believe he’s scum or third party, and either way, I don’t trust him. Again, this is probably my Mafia gene deficiency, but to me, anyone working against Town is scummy, whether literally or not, and should be eliminated if at all possible. Since I had a stronger read on him (at the time) as anti-town (third party or scum, whatever) than I did on a literal Team Scum candidate (you), I preferred to vote for him.
I’m afraid I’m still learning even after playing two whole games. Maybe when I’ve played 3494745939755 mafia games on 47393 different boards like you, I’ll catch up and understand the apparently massive difference between “voting for someone no one else is going to vote for but trying to convince people to do so nevertheless” and “voting for someone whom everyone has affirmatively chosen to unvote/exonerate and not trying to persuade them to jump back on that person’s bandwagon.” 'Cause again, I’m just not seeing why one of these vote choices is more worthless than the other.
Considering all the facts, it’s hardly surprising that I failed to post last day (or is it “Day” here?).
Normal Phase, Visorslash and ATPG know my playing style and it will become obvious how I prefer to play.
I did not lurk however, I was prohibited from posting earlier than I did. Now I’m around forever (and you shall know it).
There’s no presumably there. The only player I specifically remember as disavowing his original vote was gnarlycharlie.
You’re not understanding me correctly. In my version of an ideal world at that point I would have seen several votes on each of them. Yet until a couple of additional people put votes on Astral, I could not put PetW back into the running without all but taking Astral out of it. And I did not want to do that. Once the couple of votes did come on Astral, that was no longer an issue.
Votes could have come from anyone, either PetW’s earlier voters or others who had yet to vote but who liked the case better than the other reasonable options.
I blow myself up all the time, haha.
OK, well that case you don’t actually have to make to me, not likely toDay or in the near future. If you are scum, then you took the perfect strategy to defeat my radar by the way you attacked me yesterday. I’m still waiting on Weedy, granted, but it’s a pretty powerful impression.
I don’t know, maybe it’s mine. It made sense to me at the time. Two roughly equal suspects, about each of whom I had said what I needed to say, and (I thought) some chance that votes might be placed on both of them. It seemed like win/win to me in terms of getting what I wanted out of the day.
Really the only thing that made me push you so hard on that was the vote count at the time I did the pushing. It was late, I thought the day was ending in 18 hours or so, and I was terrified of a last-minute panic/vote manipulation. I pushed too hard and did more harm than good. Shit happens.
Don’t get down on yourself so much, choie. I really do not think you suck at this game, not in the slightest, and I don’t think anyone else does either. We just butt heads. Again, shit happens.
