Mafia Reunion - Day 9

[Mahaloth]

**Day 9 Vote Count

Bufftabby(8): Johnnybravo(123), captainklutz(128), scathach(129), raventhief(130), snfaulkner(133), zeriel(140), plumpudding(147), texcat(174),

JohnnyBravo(3): bufftabby(101), Lightfoot(106), hawkeyeop(145)

Zeriel(1): Biotop(81)
**

[Zeriel]

@snfaulkner

*sits on couch with beer n popcorn *

Seriously?

[snfaulkner]

@Zeriel

Seriously?

Ok, I lied about the popcorn.

[Captain_Klutz]

@bufftabby

It was only the 15th vote, rather than the 14th I thought it to be, because I voted at 1:06pm and did not return, and Johnny’s vote at 1:05pm, also on DiggitCamara, was unseen by me until after the Day ended. Presumably he placed his vote while I was coding my own.

The switch, as you say, did not happen, but me coming back the rest of the Day once I had a vote down was also a thing that did not happen. If I had known Boozy was a wolf, I would’ve obviously placed my vote there to yield “maximum information”. Of course, lynching them both was pretty effective to that end too.

Sure, I can understand that you thought your vote was the 14th. However, Johnny Bravo updated you and invited you to change just 12 minutes later (post 538). This was all happening in the last hour of the Day. Are you saying that you voted, then immediately disappeared? With less than an hour to a possible double lynch?

[nesta]

I’m surprised the Patsy hasn’t claimed. What’s the pro-town reason for withholding a claim at this point?

They won’t be lynched unless there’s a counter-claim. I highly doubt there would be a counter-claim because both wolves and maifia are running low on players, so a one-to-one trade wouldn’t be worth it. On the other hand, if the Patsy hasen’t claimed and scum is getting lynched they might claim Patsy as a last resort, resulting in last mintue confusion.

The Patsy probably won’t be night killed because they aren’t a threat to scum unless they are lynched and get to take their kill, but since they won’t be lynched that’s not something scum needs to worry about. The only reason they would be killed by scum is because they are in the semi-confirmed pool, but we currently have two masons and a watcher in that pool, along with three cult. The Patsy would probalby be way down on the list of targets.

If they are holding onto the hope of using their power, I consider that anti-town. I can sympathise in that I have a power that I never used because it would be anti-town, and in my opinion therefore anti-my-party-cult. At this point there is no upside to the Patsy getting a kill. That requires we lynch town. Maybe they hit scum. Hell, the odds favor it at this point. But a one for one sucks at this point if we can avoid it.

The Patsy claiming narrows the pool even further. What’s more, with LightFoot’s half-claim it could clarify things if LightFoot is false claiming. It would prompt the Zoning Inspector to claim, giving us a scum LightFoot.

Unless LightFoot is the Patsy. If so, if I squint, I can see some town motivation in wanting to give a little wifom to the Zoning Inspector. If that’s the case I think it’s misguided.

We have two Masons, a Watcher, and three Cult out in the open. This isn’t the time for the Patsy or Zoning Inspector to be worried about being killed by scum. They should be willing to take one for the team if that means their team wins.

[LightFoot]

Nanook of the North Shore- hasn’t posted toDay so I checked what they did yesterDay-[spoiler]

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

Assume that he is. What does it mean? Unless you’re advocating for mass cultist lynch at this point, which still seems like a mistake barring some new info that seems incredibly unlikely to arrive.

^ about Hawkeye being a cultist w/ Johnny B

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

I meant more from what we should do about him in specific. Obviously (if true) we have more info, and obviously it means his comments are definitively not Town. Ok and? The way you worded your original post it made it seem like a much bigger deal, like you had found the perfect lynch candidate for the Day. I dunno, maybe it’s just me.

^ same subject and claiming.

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

Since Sachetore was DK’d and Hooker was NK’d, unless I am somehow simultaneously Mafia AND a Wolf, your case makes no sense whatsoever. Please try again.

And really Khameleon? Talk about lame ass me toos.

^ responding to a vote from Lakia and Khameleons ‘trust’ and vote there as well

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

Well, barring a counterclaim, the only correct reaction to that claim is to believe it. Mason is just about the worst possible fake claim for scum to make, since it’s incredibly easy to counter claim and doesn’t really come with any upside that things like Detective fake claims can. We’re also at the point of the game where there’s no real upside to real Masons, if we assume the claim to be fake, need worry about not counter claiming.

"]Vote Lakai

You haven’t really contributed anything since you returned, and your vote Today was awful in a way I can’t just ignore. The original vote was based on bad reasoning, but I can sort of squint and see why Khameleon did it. But you have no such excuse for just piggy backing onto a bad vote. It feels like lazy scum just hopping onto what appears to be a convenient spot.

^ and the vote for a (now) confirmed Mason.

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

Bah, that’s what I get for posting while doing audit work. The vote was still awful, no matter who made it originally.

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

I’m voting Lakai for not lurking in plain sight, combined with a crappy vote that seems to be an attempt to use factually incorrect or impossible logic to justify not having to do actual work. The fact that I brainfarted the order doesn’t change that, especially given that the other person involved claimed Mason.

^ a claimed Mason trusted Lakai, but still…

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

If Lakai wants to claim mason, or Khameleon wants to do it directly for him, then I’ll move my vote. I’m not going to assume an “obvious” breadcrumb actually is a breadcrumb in game where we’ve had vanilla town proclaiming exactly the same thing repeatedly. Remember paul and angel? Angel and like 5 other people? Remember all the meta discussion from 3-4 Days ago? Don’t assume it’s a tell rather than more of the same.

^ beginning to back peddle

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

Nesta, what I was referring to was yes, Angel and her 400% Town comment, but also going the other way. Paul expressed absolute unwavering trust of Angel, and so did Prof P. Not, I think this person is Town, but I know this person is Town. All of them were vanilla! So I was unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt based on possible breadcrumbs that I missed until pointed out.

Of course, it’s no longer a possible breadcrumb. unvote lakai
vote Cygnus

His flailings today are kinda suspicious, and with his overall participation he isn’t contributing to scum hunting in any sort of meaningful way.

^ Lakai is confirmed - OOps better bail… Vote the wagon. out.[/spoiler]

Held fast to the vote on **Lakai ** until it was a confirmed bad vote. voted the wagon and signed off.
If they are not ModKilled they have some ‘splainin’ to do

[nesta]

@snfaulkner

…I lied…

You do know what we do to lairs around here, right?* :dubious:

Promises of popcorn, then no popcorn. No forgiveness.

*Complete fluff, joke post here. Just to be clear.

[LightFoot]

@nesta

[spoiler]I’m surprised the Patsy hasn’t claimed. What’s the pro-town reason for withholding a claim at this point?

They won’t be lynched unless there’s a counter-claim. I highly doubt there would be a counter-claim because both wolves and maifia are running low on players, so a one-to-one trade wouldn’t be worth it. On the other hand, if the Patsy hasen’t claimed and scum is getting lynched they might claim Patsy as a last resort, resulting in last mintue confusion.

The Patsy probably won’t be night killed because they aren’t a threat to scum unless they are lynched and get to take their kill, but since they won’t be lynched that’s not something scum needs to worry about. The only reason they would be killed by scum is because they are in the semi-confirmed pool, but we currently have two masons and a watcher in that pool, along with three cult. The Patsy would probalby be way down on the list of targets.

If they are holding onto the hope of using their power, I consider that anti-town. I can sympathise in that I have a power that I never used because it would be anti-town, and in my opinion therefore anti-my-party-cult. At this point there is no upside to the Patsy getting a kill. That requires we lynch town. Maybe they hit scum. Hell, the odds favor it at this point. But a one for one sucks at this point if we can avoid it.

The Patsy claiming narrows the pool even further. What’s more, with LightFoot’s half-claim it could clarify things if LightFoot is false claiming. It would prompt the Zoning Inspector to claim, giving us a scum LightFoot.

Unless LightFoot is the Patsy. If so, if I squint, I can see some town motivation in wanting to give a little wifom to the Zoning Inspector. If that’s the case I think it’s misguided.[/spoiler]

We have two Masons, a Watcher, and three Cult out in the open. This isn’t the time for the Patsy or Zoning Inspector to be worried about being killed by scum. They should be willing to take one for the team if that means their team wins.

I thought it was obvious that I was giving ‘the other’ a comfort zone to claim. If one of us had AHA! information we would have claimed and shared earlier. ( granted the Patsy would have none and the ZI is a poke and hope role )

If I were false claiming all is needed is for the other (s) to claim.I welcome additional responders to my partial claim*

Why not leave Scum with a little confusion? Town still gets their claimed (if not counter claimed)

To your last sentence- where were you when the call was made for LUTHA to claim earlier in the game? what was *your *reasoning for staying behind the scenes?

[LightFoot]

I will admit I am a bit frustrated that the ‘other’ has not taken advantage of my open window.

** MHaye,Masons ** what say you on my attempt to lay cover for comfort?
This will be for naught if they are mod killed because of lack of participation.-but-

[Johnny_Bravo]

@LightFoot

I will admit I am a bit frustrated that the ‘other’ has not taken advantage of my open window.

Lightfoot, I’m going to write this with the assumption that you’re telling the truth. Let’s say you’re the patsy.

The zoning inspector has no way of knowing that you’re actually the patsy. For all he knows, the real patsy is out there wondering if you’re the real zoning inspector. Or the real patsy is one of the lurkers. So the zoning inspector now has to decide whether you’re scum trying to draw him out, or whether you’re actually the ‘other’ role. In your head, you’ve confirmed yourself as town, but that doesn’t follow for the other townie power role.

I get that you want to create a little confusion for scum, but I really don’t think this is having the desired effect.

[LightFoot]

All the ‘other’ has to claim is that they are the ‘other’ if more than one player claims ‘other’ we have something to chew on.

It also will give Town a small advantage in the event that the true ‘other’ is ModKilled.

*** does this make sense to anyone besides me? ***

[bufftabby]

@Captain_Klutz

Sure, I can understand that you thought your vote was the 14th. However, Johnny Bravo updated you and invited you to change just 12 minutes later (post 538). This was all happening in the last hour of the Day. Are you saying that you voted, then immediately disappeared? With less than an hour to a possible double lynch?

Well, yeah, my lunch break was over. I don’t have the luxury of playing at work otherwise.

[LightFoot]

preface: I had a dream about this game ( don’t we all?) In my dream TexCat’s name was revealed in red so I looked at yesterDay [spoiler]

@TexCat

That’s a surprise! I wonder when the first hit on the godfather took place. Cookies or Batman?

@TexCat

That doesn’t make sense to me. What night do you think it was? And why would they wait so long to kill Guiri if they suspected he was the godfather? Why would they have killed Hooker last night, instead of Guiri, or instead of MHaye who surprisingly is still alive.

^shocked Mafia?

@TexCat

We are not going to lynch outside that pool of 9, whether they claim now or not. They can always claim later if it looks like they might be lynched. There is absolutely no reason for them to put a target on their back for the scum to hit. I was all for the Patsy claiming on Day One, but there are no investigators left. There is absolutely no reason for her to claim now.

^ sane recovery

@TexCat

Vote: Koldanar [/COLOR]

I still think that the PM was edited. And now we have a fellow LUTHA, sinjin, saying that it looks fake.

^ follow a LUTHA

@TexCat

You’re conflating his switch claim with his role claim. I’d be willing to bet that scum had some switches. Scum could have easily received a Glados switch and Koldanar could easily have modified that bit that he underlined about the cult. Perhaps it originally said, “It’s is absolutely not something that will help the mafia. Likely something that would kill you all.”

And only two cultists have a number??? I don’t remember that bit of info. Where did you see that?

His PM power section was unlike the other LUTHA and, in fact, unlike any others in the game. And the fact that Crys died just as she was investigating Koldanar seems awfully suspicious to me.

@TexCat

Yeah, I get that, but where did the claim of*** only*** two come from?

@TexCat

unvote: Koldanar
I’m reluctantly conceding that given the lack of counterclaim, from a 5th LUTHA, that Koldanar must be LUTHA. But it would not surprise me at all to see a LUTHA among the mod kills, in which case my vote is immediately going back.

**vote: Bufftabby **

Johnny Bravo’s case had the smell of OMGUS to me, but I thought that CaptK’s case about Buff voting for Inner instead of Boozy made a lot of sense.

^ still not trusting Koldanar , the case on Bufftabby started poorly but following a Mason won’t get me in trouble.
[/spoiler]
Not sure if there is anything there for certain. but I looked anyway

[Lakai]

I don’t like the case against bufftabby because there are too many players who just went along with Captain Klutz’s logic. It’s like they think it won’t be suspicious if they follow a mason.

I would look for scum in the list of people who voted for bufftabby by just agreeing with Captain Klutz:

scathach(129), raventhief(130), snfaulkner(133), zeriel(140), plumpudding(147), texcat(174)

I think only plumpudding voted without citing any reasons, and everyone else cited CK’s logic as a reason for voting for bufftabby. And snfaulkner claimed, so I won’t vote for him.

I’m going with my gut feeling that there has to be scum hiding somewhere in these votes under the protective logic of “I’m agreeing with a mason”.

I’m going to vote Zeriel. This because of the case Biotop has against him. Zeriel pretty much said he voted for Prof. P because of Pleo’s votes as a Seer, but then Paul noted that Zeriel voted for Prof. P before Pleo died, and then Zeriel was never really able to explain himself since.

[nesta]

@LightFoot

I will admit I am a bit frustrated that the ‘other’ has not taken advantage of my open window.

** MHaye,Masons ** what say you on my attempt to lay cover for comfort?

This will be for naught if they are mod killed because of lack of participation.-but-

I’m trying to put myself in the LightFoot is town mindset. I really am. But why should the “other” trust you? You have a semi-claim of either Patsy or Zoning Inspector. So the “other” is one of those. With your claim, though, they don’t know that claiming “also other” is going to help anything. What if you’re scum? Your claim doesn’t allow for a counter-claim, which is the whole point of a mass claim. Whatever they claim you can claim the opposite.

I’m of the opinion that both the Patsy and Zoning Inspector should just outright claim. Those aren’t my roles to play, so they can play them how they like, but I think holding back is anti-town. Town is hurting right now, but I think focusing their efforts is their only chance. And I think town can win this if they come together.

LightFoot, just come out with a specific claim. It’s pro-town. Otherwise we’ll waste efforts trying to decide if you’re scum with an ambigious half-claim.

BTW, I think LightFoot is scum, and the abigious half-claim is a cover in response to Johnny Bravo’s case. But I could be convinced otherwise if they claim and aren’t counter-claimed.

@LightFoot

All the ‘other’ has to claim is that they are the ‘other’ if more than one player claims ‘other’ we have something to chew on.

It also will give Town a small advantage in the event that the true ‘other’ is ModKilled.

*** does this make sense to anyone besides me? ***

Unless you’re scum. That’s the point of a specific claim. The “other” has no reason to claim unless you claim their role, and you aren’t claiming either one.

@LightFoot

*** does this make sense to anyone besides me? ***

So, no, that doesn’t make sense to me. If you’re town, you need to reevaulatie.

@LightFoot

I thought it was obvious that I was giving ‘the other’ a comfort zone to claim. If one of us had AHA! information we would have claimed and shared earlier. ( granted the Patsy would have none and the ZI is a poke and hope role )

If I were false claiming all is needed is for the other (s) to claim.I welcome additional responders to my partial claim*.

How would they know to claim? Your “other” claim doesn’t give either a reson to countercliam.

[QUOTE=LightFoot]
Why not leave Scum with a little confusion? Town still gets their claimed (if not counter claimed)

[/quote]

What confusion? Whether you are Patsy or Zoning Inspector? I don’t think they care. They have plenty of kill targets.

@LightFoot

To your last sentence- where were you when the call was made for LUTHA to claim earlier in the game? what was *your *reasoning for staying behind the scenes?

I claimed Today, when a mass claim was useful. I was tempted to claim every Day, but the suspicion of cult was strong, and a distraction from finding scum.

Why do you ask this? To deflect suspicion? The cult is out and claimed. Why aren’t you?

[TexCat]

@LightFoot

preface: I had a dream about this game ( don’t we all?) In my dream TexCat’s name was revealed in red so I looked at yesterDay [spoiler]

^shocked Mafia?
^ sane recovery
^ follow a LUTHA

^ still not trusting Koldanar , the case on Bufftabby started poorly but following a Mason won’t get me in trouble.
[/spoiler]
Not sure if there is anything there for certain. but I looked anyway

I think(?) I’m flattered to be part of your dreams. Is that just a myth that we dream in black and white?

@Lakai

I don’t like the case against bufftabby because there are too many players who just went along with Captain Klutz’s logic. It’s like they think it won’t be suspicious if they follow a mason.

I would look for scum in the list of people who voted for bufftabby by just agreeing with Captain Klutz:

scathach(129), raventhief(130), snfaulkner(133), zeriel(140), plumpudding(147), texcat(174)

I think only plumpudding voted without citing any reasons, and everyone else cited CK’s logic as a reason for voting for bufftabby. And snfaulkner claimed, so I won’t vote for him.

I’m going with my gut feeling that there has to be scum hiding somewhere in these votes under the protective logic of “I’m agreeing with a mason”.

I’m going to vote Zeriel. This because of the case Biotop has against him. Zeriel pretty much said he voted for Prof. P because of Pleo’s votes as a Seer, but then Paul noted that Zeriel voted for Prof. P before Pleo died, and then Zeriel was never really able to explain himself since.

You’re ignoring the fact that CaptK made a pretty good case against Bufftabby. I didn’t agree with him because he claimed mason; I agreed with his good case. I’m pretty sure Bufftabby is going to flip scum.

@nesta

I’m trying to put myself in the LightFoot is town mindset. I really am. But why should the “other” trust you? You have a semi-claim of either Patsy or Zoning Inspector. So the “other” is one of those. With your claim, though, they don’t know that claiming “also other” is going to help anything. What if you’re scum? Your claim doesn’t allow for a counter-claim, which is the whole point of a mass claim. Whatever they claim you can claim the opposite.

I’m of the opinion that both the Patsy and Zoning Inspector should just outright claim. Those aren’t my roles to play, so they can play them how they like, but I think holding back is anti-town. Town is hurting right now, but I think focusing their efforts is their only chance. And I think town can win this if they come together.

LightFoot, just come out with a specific claim. It’s pro-town. Otherwise we’ll waste efforts trying to decide if you’re scum with an ambigious half-claim.

BTW, I think LightFoot is scum, and the abigious half-claim is a cover in response to Johnny Bravo’s case. But I could be convinced otherwise if they claim and aren’t counter-claimed.

Unless you’re scum. That’s the point of a specific claim. The “other” has no reason to claim unless you claim their role, and you aren’t claiming either one.

So, no, that doesn’t make sense to me. If you’re town, you need to reevaulatie.

How would they know to claim? Your “other” claim doesn’t give either a reson to countercliam.

What confusion? Whether you are Patsy or Zoning Inspector? I don’t think they care. They have plenty of kill targets.

I claimed Today, when a mass claim was useful. I was tempted to claim every Day, but the suspicion of cult was strong, and a distraction from finding scum.

Why do you ask this? To deflect suspicion? The cult is out and claimed. Why aren’t you?

I still don’t understand the push for claims. If Lightfoot were under lynch pressure or had some info, I would encourage her to claim, but I don’t see what good it does town otherwise.

[nesta]

@TexCat

I still don’t understand the push for claims. If Lightfoot were under lynch pressure or had some info, I would encourage her to claim, but I don’t see what good it does town otherwise.

Really? We are at endgame, with two Masons, a Watcher, and a the Tinkerer claimed. Also three Cult.

You don’t see the reason for LightFoot to claim? She has thrown out a “I’m either the Patsy or Zoning Inspector” claim. I’ve outlined my reasons why the Patsy should claim. The Zoning Inspector is a little more iffy, but I also think they should claim.

Why shouldn’t they claim at this point?

Why don’t you, TexCat, claim? I’ve already given my reasons why the Patsy should claim. You’re vanilla? We already have two villain claims, so yours would help narrow things down. Or are you the Zoning Inspector? Great, claim, and we won’t have to lynch you.

Yes, I’ve been suspicious of you for many Days now. This post doesn’t help.

Town… claim now. It will help. Those that are resisting the claim should be suspect.

[Hawkeyeop]

@nesta

Town… claim now. It will help. Those that are resisting the claim should be suspect.

How do you think it will help? Right now it looks like we are going to lynch Buff. Is knowing who Patsy (assuming its isn’t Buff who should of course claim if she has a power role) is going to somehow change that?

[nesta]

@TexCat

I still don’t understand the push for claims. If Lightfoot were under lynch pressure or had some info, I would encourage her to claim, but I don’t see what good it does town otherwise.

I want to explain this a little better.

There are currently 3 vanilla town. (claimed Johnny Bravo and Plumpudding)
2 masons (Lakai, Captain Klutz)
Watcher (MHaye)
Tinkerer (snfaulkner)

Plus 3 cult: nesta, Koldanar, sinjin

And there are 6 scum (wolves and mafia).

So we have 4 claimed, somewhat verifiable town. It could be 6. We also have 3 claimed cult. That’s 7 claimed, counter-claimable roles. It could be 9 if the Patsy and Zoning Inspector would claim.

We have 2 claimed vanilla: Johnny Bravo and Plumpudding. Another claiming vanilla would fill up the three slots. More would give us a pool to lynch between, with the knowledge that at least one was scum. And for every extra vanilla claim the pool gets more worthwhile.

We’ve narrowed the pool of scum considerably. There are 6 scum, and 9 who haven’t claimed anything (I don’t count LightFoot’s claim):

Not claimed (9):
3. Biotop
6. bufftabby
9. hawkeyeop
30. LightFoot
33. Nanook of the North Shore
40. Raventhief
44. Scathach
50. Texcat
55. Zeriel

2 of those are the Patsy and Zoning Inspector.

1 or more of those should claim Vanilla.

6 of those are scum (unless Johnny Bravo or Plumpudding are lying, in which case it’s in town’s best interest to counter-claim vanilla).

Do you still not understand the push for claims? We can narrow the pool of scum significantly.

[Captain_Klutz]

@LightFoot

I will admit I am a bit frustrated that the ‘other’ has not taken advantage of my open window.

** MHaye,Masons ** what say you on my attempt to lay cover for comfort?
This will be for naught if they are mod killed because of lack of participation.-but-

It does make some sense. If the ‘other’ claims that they are also one of Patsy/Zoning Inspector, then counterclaims are still possible:

• player X claims to be one of Patsy/Zoning Inspector
• now player Y counters that they are the Patsy

So then we know someone is lying. LightFoot and player X now claim properly and we figure out who the false claimer is.

I am happy with this. But the ‘other’ needs to claim. I do not see a good reason to stay hidden at this stage.