Mafia Reunion - Day Two

[sinjin]

@paulwhoisaghost

If
Well… my excuse is that I subbed in toDay… what’s yours? You popped in and posted here, but that’s it? Did I miss something?

I admit to skimming posts based on my interest in there discussion content, but I didn’t see anything else by Koldanar. Can someone on pc check his posts in this thread?

I know people are having trouble keeping up, but dont try to call out other non participants. Just do your best and be honest about how far behind you are. Otherwise it just says “I know I’m lurking…but look at those lurkers instead.”

Come on guys. I subbed in at the start of D2… end of N1… and I’m on a phone… if I can participate you can too… read what’s current and go back if you need to fill in the blanks or are up to speed on current discussion issues.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

I have been reading for hours now. I tried posting to comments as I read along but then realized several posts later that others had already posted what i posted days ago. I am up to the quoted post as of now.

[Meeko]

@paulwhoisaghost

I’ve played with and been frustrated by Meeko too many times to count… and my memory serves it was often a town meeko… now I just posted that his tendency to drift off on meta tangents and his generally difficult to parse posting style is especially bad for town in this game… but it doesn’t prove anything about his alignment… just that he is a hindrance… I also think he could be very helpful to town in spite of this hindrance. You might be right about Meeko, but I think we have more pressing issues at hand…
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Uh… Thanks? :dubious:

[Hawkeyeop]

Vote Crys.

I have other suspicions, Chronos and Boozahol Squid have been pinging me, but vague inclining can’t overcome obvious tomfoolery. I’m not against working with 3rd parties. I actually think they are usually more dangerous to scum than town. However, they have to be honest, and Crys actions do not seem consistent with his role PM. I still can’t figure out a rationale for claiming. If he is in a group of 5, than losing one should have been a huge deal, certainly not worth outing himself as an obvious target. Also, the power and goal do not seem aligned. Why would you need to find your brethren if you just needed to survive? I think he is searching for something else that he isn’t revealing.

I’m okay with the Brewha train too despite my earlier support. I do think he has the switch, but I’m more inclined to think he is scum. It makes sense for the vig to be controlled by members of both scum teams. Perhaps Brewha was trying to signal the other scum side, so they could work together. I will switch my vote if it helps get both lynched.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@jsgoddess

Some thoughts which smarter people may have already thought of.

brewha claimed he had a switch, then posted text he said was from the switch pm. But the text of the pm seems incomplete. It starts with “Oh, one more thing.” This does not read like a full pm, but as the last paragraph of a longer pm.

That’s a minor issue, obviously, if the pm is imaginary.
I’m thinking more about these pm switch texts. I’m typing as I think to see if there’s anything to be gained from this line of thought.

brewha’s lie about not having any additional information doesn’t ping me as hard as it does others.

brewha is the first to post text from an ostensible switch pm. Captain Klutz later posts a switch pm. CK’s pm has different text. Then Crys posts text that matches CK’s text.

Our choices seem to be

1. brewha’s text is text from an actual switch pm
2. CK’s text (and therefore Crys’s) is text from an actual switch pm
3. both texts are texts from one or more actual switch pms
4. neither text is text from an actual switch pm

If brewha’s text is from an actual switch pm, that says that brewha either got a switch pm or got the text from someone who got a switch pm. If brewha’s text is NOT text from an actual switch pm, that means he either made up the text alone, or that he got help making up the text from scum teammates, which would suggest that scum does not have switch pms, because otherwise wouldn’t they just use a real pm’s text? If the text were made up, that would make the off vs. toggle discrepancy more understandable. The mods also didn’t confirm anything about brewha’s claimed wording, only said that the switches were toggles and that they didn’t send out any contradictory information. I think it was paulwhoisaghost who suggested a scum motivation for his switch claim, which is interesting and plausible. But if pwiag’s reasoning is right, the scum team in question has a Batman switch. So that would make it more likely they are just using the text from that pm. But then the off vs. toggle discrepancy is less understandable.

CK posted second. Same origin choices as brewha’s, but the additional question of if CK and brewha are working together, why use different text? Using different text seems to undercut brewha’s claim. If not working together, why would CK invent wording that was different than brewha’s instead of piggybacking on brewha’s claim if possible, perhaps by delaying sharing the actual text? He seemed not to hesitate sharing a different text. But if CK’s text is made up, isn’t that dangerous? Making up a different text would suggest that CK is scum and brewha is not on the same team. But it also just seems rather foolish because he would have no way to know if brewha’s text would or would not match other switch pms, leaving CK’s text as the outlier. This makes me inclined to think CK’s text is accurate, though it wasn’t necessarily addressed to him and it isn’t necessarily a switch to a scum role.

Then Crys comes in, claims brewha might be 3rd party as she is, but then claims CK’s pm text, not brewha’s, and not a third text. This might mean that both CK and Crys got, or have access to, the same pm text (not necessarily the same pm). Given later confusion she expressed about whose text matched hers, this could potentially just have been a mistake and she meant to ape brewha’s text, not CK’s. But if it wasn’t a mistake and if she’s on brewha’s team, again, why claim CK’s pm text?

If we assume for the moment that all 3 are accurate, why would CK and Crys’s text differ from brewha’s? It could be that brewha is a different faction and that the different factions get different switch pm texts. It could be that a different mod wrote it and just didn’t duplicate the other mod’s text.

If we assume for the moment that one of the two is accurate and the other is inaccurate, do we have any reason to favor one than the other? If forced to choose, I think we have reason to think CK’s text is more accurate than brewha’s. Crys’s agreement is weak evidence, but it’s evidence. Also the inherent danger in contradicting brewha’s text without some bolstering and without any potential gain like outing the “matching” switch holder makes this unlikely to me (since CK doesn’t identify which switch, he cannot try to find the matches).

brewha’s claimed text says he can switch Batman. Possibly weird to have a control of a Town power role, but it is a compulsory vig which many Town people dislike, at least in early rounds. CK did not say which role his switch changed, only that it was a scum role. These strike me as plausible.

Crys claims to have been given a Bodyguard switch. I am baffled by this, maybe because of the discussion earlier in the game about the uselessness of this role, which only seems to trade one death for another while giving information to the killer about the likely faction of the protected player. But why have a switch that controls a role that is both voluntary and useless?

Options:

1. Crys has (or has seen) a Bodyguard switch. Every scum power, or maybe every power in the game, has a switch, which requires two switches per scum power, which means 28 switches minimum. If brewha’s switch claim is also accurate, this would go up to at least 30 (if my math doesn’t suck);

2. Crys has (or has seen) a Bodyguard switch. The switches are not for every power, but the mods decided to include a Bodyguard switch, despite the seeming futility; or

3. Crys is making it up.

Since Crys seems to be baffled by what the Bodyguard does, I lean toward 3. She could have just grabbed a scum role without thinking too hard about it.

Well, I’ve typed all of that and it still leaves wide open the option that all or none are telling the truth. But I find the Bodyguard switch weird, and Crys’s apparent misunderstanding or obfuscation of that role, her leaping in to the brewha fray, plus her confusion or obfuscation over which text did not match her claimed pm’s text makes her the most likely of the three for me, with brewha second and CK third.

Because of these oddities, I will Vote Crys. But I figure there have been dozens of posts since I started this that I will now have to tackle.

I find it very odd that you detach Brewha’s lie from the rest of the situation.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Meeko

Where do you stand on the whole Shaved versus Bald debate?

---

1. As I stated before, I seriously botched my pacing in this game. I feel like I made 10 days worth of posts in Day 1. Consequently, I am at a point where I feel like at best I have burned out, at worst, I hate Mafia again.

2.I really don’t see how non-switch holders can participate at all right now.

3.I think every last plan on the table is half baked, and will not work. They demand too much from people who have no reason to contribute. Masons claiming on Day 2. REALLY?!

4.In general, all talk of plans, even if they were good, is causing more noise than noise. Do or do not, there is no plan. [[If you guys don’t get that one, I give up.]]

5. The sum of 1-4 make it hard for me to play.

6. In case it’s not clear, my vote is in place, as policy, against lying.

7.Even if the lie in 6 didn’t come to light, as Cookies was hinting at, due to playing non “Meeko Mafia”, something else would have taken it’s place.

8. The “things” in 7, not addressed by 6, are still there, but muted. I would wager, in hindsight, the things we haven’t seen yet ((That are already “seeable”, that is, text in posts already posted.)) will prove to be better indicators of scum.

.
.
.

Say what you want, but yes, I am playing the way I play. I don’t really see any other way. I don’t really see how else I can contribute.

I’m sure there are plenty of non switch holders participating. I’m sorry you feel you cannot do the same.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[brewha]

Geez, there’s not enough facepalms for you bunch.

When you guys figure out that I’m town, and told nothing but the truth aside from one throw away phrase that meant absolutely nothing in the post, you really need to look at those opposing me.

Vote Sacherote

He was the most agressively opposed to my claim - before my inconsistent statement was pointed out. Look at him seriously as scum

As for the rest of my voters - look at those who simply claim I’m a liar and need to be lynched. The ones that don’t bother analyzing my motivations and are simply jumping on a juicy bandwagon - those are the opportunist scum.

I’m really sorry I messed up. But, I OK with a lynch. My claim was for several reasons.

1. I needed to dispell the rumor that town power switches were held by scum - done
2. I wanted to find out what the switch mechanic was - serial, parrallel, or a toggle - done.
3. I wanted to know if the news of switch possession was announced at ones death - also done.

It would have been nice to prove all that without dying, but I guess you can’t make an omelette without scrambling some eggs.

And, since I am just a vanilla town - I dont’ mind getting lynched to get some good info out to the rest of the town. Just a pawn hoping the King will get the job done.

But, this is going to be what? 6 straight townie deaths? When you see I flip town, get your shit together, analyze those voting me and saying my claim was a bad idea, and stop killing townies.

I still wanna win this thing.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@sinjin

I have been reading for hours now. I tried posting to comments as I read along but then realized several posts later that others had already posted what i posted days ago. I am up to the quoted post as of now.

I say post anyway… who cares what someone else already said… if you post your thoughts then we have vocal players saying the same thing. Censoring yourself because someone else already said something similar doesn’t really help town. At end game it gives a record of your thoughts throughout the game.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Hawkeyeop

Vote Crys.

I have other suspicions, Chronos and Boozahol Squid have been pinging me, but vague inclining can’t overcome obvious tomfoolery. I’m not against working with 3rd parties. I actually think they are usually more dangerous to scum than town. However, they have to be honest, and Crys actions do not seem consistent with his role PM. I still can’t figure out a rationale for claiming. If he is in a group of 5, than losing one should have been a huge deal, certainly not worth outing himself as an obvious target. Also, the power and goal do not seem aligned. Why would you need to find your brethren if you just needed to survive? I think he is searching for something else that he isn’t revealing.

I’m okay with the Brewha train too despite my earlier support. I do think he has the switch, but I’m more inclined to think he is scum. It makes sense for the vig to be controlled by members of both scum teams. Perhaps Brewha was trying to signal the other scum side, so they could work together. I will switch my vote if it helps get both lynched.

I have posted several possible motivations for Crys’s actions that are consistent with their claimed role. Did you miss these or disagree with them but chose not to vocalize your disagreements?

Your statement about Brewha is also confusing to me. You seem to be saying that either he has the switch or is scum… the phrase “I’m more inclined to think he is scum” suggests that you think it’s an either or situation… but then you proceed to to speak as if Brewha is scum and has the switch… in spite of your stated belief that brewha is scum, you put your vote on Crys who you believe is 3rd party. This makes no sense to me. If you are so worried about a 3rd party hitting their wincon before town, shouldn’t you also believe that scum have even more reason to kill Crys?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[GuiriEnEspana]

Paul, you’re voting brewha because you suspect he’s scum trying to find either batman or the other batman switch holder, right? And you’re not voting Crys because she’s claimed non-exclusive 3rd party who is not a threat to town, and there’s no scum motivation for her claim?

I get the first bit, still seems like an overly risky ploy to identify a player who so far has not killed scum and usually hurts town more than not.

As for Crys, so little of her claim makes sense - we are clearly missing her real motivation - investigating Drain, when there was a massive pool of non-claimants, not claiming D1 when invited to, not stepping in to save Colby, Toejam or Lakai but considering brewha worth the risk for no clear reason, confusing/misreading the role her switch controls.

Brewha, it’s asking a lot to forgive that one lie…

[TexCat]

@mods
The vote count in 791 shows 16 votes for Brewha, but lists only 14 names. You seem to be missing votes (as well as missing their unvotes) from Crys[743] and JohnnyB[767]

[Hawkeyeop]

@paulwhoisaghost

I have posted several possible motivations for Crys’s actions that are consistent with their claimed role. Did you miss these or disagree with them but chose not to vocalize your disagreements?

I tried to go back and find what posts you were referring to, but didn’t find anything that refuted my points. I found your arguments on how Crys’s would go about searching for his allies, but no discussion on why it would be necessary to do so. The information given says he can with or without knowing them, so why would he be so desperate that he would claim to find them? He risked a lot for a minor gain, and that doesn’t sound like a survivor to me.

Also, from a game design standpoint, I don’t think a player would be given that type of power unless there was a really reason they needed to find their associates, and I don’t see that here. If you have anything specific that I’m not addressing, let me know.

@paulwhoisaghost

Your statement about Brewha is also confusing to me. You seem to be saying that either he has the switch or is scum… the phrase “I’m more inclined to think he is scum” suggests that you think it’s an either or situation… but then you proceed to to speak as if Brewha is scum and has the switch… in spite of your stated belief that brewha is scum, you put your vote on Crys who you believe is 3rd party. This makes no sense to me. If you are so worried about a 3rd party hitting their wincon before town, shouldn’t you also believe that scum have even more reason to kill Crys?

I thought I said that he probably has the switch he claims, but it is more likely that he is a scum with a switch than a town with a switch. I’m not sure why you are confused. As to why I don’t vote for him, well I could be wrong. So yes it is better to hit scum than 3rd party, but it is also better to hit 3rd party than town. So it comes down which case I feel more confident about, and for me that is Crys. I think it is possible than Brewha is a townie who made a careless mistake, but Crys actions seem more deliberate. That said, there is a lot of fishy things with Brewha’s behavior, so I’m okay with a double lynch.

[GuiriEnEspana]

@brewha

1. I needed to dispell the rumor that town power switches were held by scum - done
2. I wanted to find out what the switch mechanic was - serial, parrallel, or a toggle - done.
3. I wanted to know if the news of switch possession was announced at ones death - also done.

It would have been nice to prove all that without dying, but I guess you can’t make an omelette without scrambling some eggs.

So it was not related to whether the batman switch should be used to restrain the compulsory vig? You second and third reasons could have been resolved via PM with the mods - Klutz claims he got an answer, and for the first one, what difference does it make? Town players who have town switches already know it, so it’s not as if you’re helping them, and non-town players won’t really care.

@Crys75

I disagree, but I might be a bit biased I don’t want any of my non hostile buddies to die, and if i did survive it takes away all the fun for the cultists cause we don’t have to hunt for each other anymore. I think this takes away from the spirit of the roles in the game.

Has Crys explained this yet?

It’s not a binary choice, Crys may be friendly, brewha may have made a mistake, but there are still 12+ scum plus unknown others out there.

Unvote
Vote snfaulkner

For these posts where he believes Crys and her claim but is voting her because he’s not sure how we can ensure she votes with town:

@snfaulkner

Ok, so

Brewha is a lying liar, but not 3rd party (assuming THAT isnt also a lie), but does that mean he is instantly scum? No. Though trust is thin, he did fess up about his lie when called out. I’m gonna put a stankeye on him for now.

Now crys, I 99% believe she is telling the truth since she provided a pm from a role that isn’t common knowledge. Her role claims “non hostile”, whatever that really means. We need to kill scumbos, which she almost certainly isn’t. But how can we trust her to always vote in town’s best interest?

@snfaulkner

In the same vein, while I try and determine if brewha is scummy scumbalina or just a towny that pulled a boner, I should

unvote diggitcamara
vote crys75

For being a claimed cult weirdo.

@snfaulkner

I’d rather murder scumbalinas toDay. But as scummy as brewha sounds, I get the feeling I had about Lakai late yesterDay.

Cultists weirdos can’t be trusted to vote in town’so best interest and should be murdered. But if they count as town for scum win conditions, then maybe not instant murderesults.

Do I go back to Diggit for a one off voter? This is my conundrum at the moment.

[brewha]

@GuiriEnEspana

Paul, you’re voting brewha because you suspect he’s scum trying to find either batman or the other batman switch holder, right? And you’re not voting Crys because she’s claimed non-exclusive 3rd party who is not a threat to town, and there’s no scum motivation for her claim?

I get the first bit, still seems like an overly risky ploy to identify a player who so far has not killed scum and usually hurts town more than not.

As for Crys, so little of her claim makes sense - we are clearly missing her real motivation - investigating Drain, when there was a massive pool of non-claimants, not claiming D1 when invited to, not stepping in to save Colby, Toejam or Lakai but considering brewha worth the risk for no clear reason, confusing/misreading the role her switch controls.

Brewha, it’s asking a lot to forgive that one lie…

Where did I ask forgiveness? I fucked up and am willing to accept the consequences.

But, if anyone is voting for me because they think I’m scum trying to find Batman - really analyze that motivation. Batman is more a liability than a asset to the town right now. If scum wanted to take out batman, it’d be more of an end game gambit.

I’d love to hear any good explanation of why scum would do what I did. There is no scenario that is less complex than the real answer.

[brewha]

@paulwhoisaghost

Brewha lied… and they claim to hold a switch. I see strong scum logic behind their actions.… I can’t say the same for Crys…

You really need to elaborate. Really.

[brewha]

@Meeko

@brewha

You got me. Yes I lied. And what sucks is that I realized it as soon as I posted that.

I’m 100% on the wagon that town should never lie. And if someone is caught in a lie, it’s a scum tell.

I absolutely should not have stated that I had no evidence to the contrary - but once I posted it, I really didn’t have much for options.

I could edit the post - but that looks scummy.

I could have posted that yes I do have evidence to the contrary - which would have looked better had I admitted it before I was caught in a lie - but I didn’t want to do a full claim yet, and didn’t want to pull a magic bag.

Bad play on my part - but can we go ahead and not lynch me today? Good chance that I’ll be dead by morning. Whether the vig was going to target me or not before, good chance he’ll change his mind if I thinks I’m a liar.

Unvote Sachertorte

Vote Brewha

This is the behavior I’m talking about. No analysis. No explanation as to how my inconsistent statements could possible be beneficial to town. Just quoting my admission of guilt and voting. If it’s not scummy behavior, it’s lazy as hell.

[DiggitCamara]

@Lakai

It looks like Brewha got in trouble with the lie and then Crys75 comes in and claims with some odd reasoning to save Brewha. She says that she can use her investigative power to show that Brewha is in her cult and therefore not a threat. But her investigative power only reveals if Brewha is in the cult or not. If Brewha is not in the cult then the investigation will tell us nothing.

Why try and claim to save Brewha by saying you are cultist and you think Brewha is a cultist too, but you have no evidence Brewha is a cultist? Unless I am missing something else that explains why Crys claimed.

And Brewha’s lie seems scummy to me because it was explained as a mistake. I would imagine that if a town person lies about something, it would be a lie motivated to help the town. Like to withhold information that would hurt town if scum found out. Brewha doesn’t say he lied to protect town and that makes the lie more scummy to me.

Right now I’m leaning on Brewha being scum and Crys doing a bad job to protect Brewha because they are both scum. The downside to this theory is that Crys just got herself and Brewha in trouble for almost no reason with the claim. I’m conflicted because Crys claimed to help Brewha but her claiming did nothing to protect Brewha and I’m surprised she would think that her claim would help.

Either way, I think the case against Brewha and Crys is the best one for Day Two and I will vote for Brewha because I did not like the explanation for the lie.

Vote Brewha.

@storyteller0910

I think it is definitely time for a

VOTE COUNT

1 – brewha (14 votes) – Chronos (538), Biotop (543), Boozahol Squid (556), Cometothe…Cookies (575), sachertorte (576), bufftabby (622), Drain Bead (638), raventhief (646), paulwhoisaghost (702), Khameleon (716), Lakai (720), HookerChemical (722), Meeko (726), ToeJam (730)

2- Crys75 (8 votes) – Guiri (262), Sunny Daze (568), Hockey Monkey (584), DiggitCamara (588), AngeloftheNorth (595), Texcat (639), Captain Klutz (640), snfaulkner (641)

3 – Pleonast (2 votes) – Lightfoot (288), Thing Fish (297)

PLAYERS WITH ONE VOTE:
ToeJam (Idle Thoughts – 32); Hockey Monkey (Hoopy Frood – 665); Sario (ProfPepperwinkle – 46); Texcat (Plumpudding – 68); Thing Fish (Pleonast -121); Chronos (Nanook – 151); Meeko (Johnny Bravo – 169); paulwhoisaghost (Zeriel – 529); Captain Klutz (Crys75 – 582).

---

With the current vote count, brewha, and only brewha, will be lynched.

Day 2 will end at 3:00PM Eastern Standard Time tomorrow (Sunday, January 22), or in about 28 hours. As a friendly reminder, all Day actions must be submitted by this time.

As always, there are no powers that affect the vote count. Any apparent irregularities are the result of moderator error.

Dead people get a vote?

[raventhief]

@DiggitCamara

Dead people get a vote?

Did you miss that lakai subbed back in?

[Sunny_Daze]

@paulwhoisaghost

I say post anyway… who cares what someone else already said… if you post your thoughts then we have vocal players saying the same thing. Censoring yourself because someone else already said something similar doesn’t really help town. At end game it gives a record of your thoughts throughout the game.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Sinjin I second this. It’s nice to hear it phrased differently or to hear from other voices.

@TexCat

@mods
The vote count in 791 shows 16 votes for Brewha, but lists only 14 names. You seem to be missing votes (as well as missing their unvotes) from Crys[743] and JohnnyB[767]

psst. In green maybe?

[Koldanar]

@GuiriEnEspana

So it was not related to whether the batman switch should be used to restrain the compulsory vig? You second and third reasons could have been resolved via PM with the mods - Klutz claims he got an answer, and for the first one, what difference does it make? Town players who have town switches already know it, so it’s not as if you’re helping them, and non-town players won’t really care.

Has Crys explained this yet?

It’s not a binary choice, Crys may be friendly, brewha may have made a mistake, but there are still 12+ scum plus unknown others out there.

]Unvote
Vote snfaulkner

For these posts where he believes Crys and her claim but is voting her because he’s not sure how we can ensure she votes with town:

Bleached by me.

I don’t like the train on Crys. I don’t understand the reasons for the claim, but I don’t distrust them.

I am going with the assumption at this point that Crys is a neutral third party, according to their claim. Going with that, I don’t see any benefit to lynching, when not a single scum is gone, yet. I would even expect the scum to of Crys at some point, if they believe the switch claim.

[bold] Vote snfaulkner [/bold]

Your vote is anti town at this point, and your justification is bad, here

[DiggitCamara]

@raventhief

Did you miss that lakai subbed back in?

Must have. Rubs me the wrong way actually: I believe that the mere act to sub a dead player back in makes a re-read that much harder.