Mafia Reunion - Day Two

[BillMC]

@Meeko

We needed more powers than we got in this game, on a manifold scale, not a number line, or tally system, where every fifth player got a slanted line, and a power.

The real issue is this.

55 players: 14 scum, 5 cult, possible an SK, which leaves 35 town - and there are what, 17 listed town powers including masons - so pretty much half the town have powers and you are complaining about lack of powers?

yes you could be whining about being just a vanilla in such a large game, or you could be scum trying to gain town credence, but whining that the game is broken just does our mods a crate load of discredit. putting together a game of this size, and keeping track of it takes a lot of work

[BillMC]

@GuiriEnEspana

Bolding added. Each Night? Or did you mean starting just toNight, since you said you were not around last Night. And you’re claiming VT, or a role without a power? Or trying to cover up a power in case you’re watched? And given your experience in Mafia, why the hell do you think inventing an imaginary role would somehow be accepted by the moderators and included in the game? Can I vote you now?

Good point…if he did do an action last night, then he’s a liar, so as per his earlier mantra - lynch all liars

But either way, vanilla town have no action - so how could they target themselves?
You watch toejam - you see him sitting in a room playing with himself?
You follow toejam - he doesn’t go anywhere as he seems preoccupied with himself?

[BillMC]

@paulwhoisaghost

No really though… there are plenty of other vanilla townies in the game. I only see one crying foul and making a scene about how disenfranchised they are. Either play or don’t. At least if you don’t then we don’t have to waste a Lynch on you. And we both know that is exactly where this headed… another Meeko mislynch.

So you are wary of sach’s claim - but you accept for certain that meeko is vanilla town, as lynching him would be a waste?

[Captain_Klutz]

@GuiriEnEspana

@Captain Klutz, in #896 you liked Johnny Bravo’s plan to leash the cultists, but then in #1119 you disagree with “compelling them to vote the same way”, what did you understand by “leash” and “block”?

I didn’t actually know what he meant by “leash”. But a “block” is just a bunch of players that are confirmed non scum. I would expect them to vote according to their own reads. Similarly, if the masons were also all to claim (which I did not support), they would also be voting according to their own reads.

[GuiriEnEspana]

@LightFoot

It is Prof’s go to post count filler and sometimes a reason to vote. ( intended or no) but content is not addressed ( generally).100 posts with three good ideas is NOT worth more than 7 posts with no fluffy bunnies hopping around . Do you agree?

Yes, I do, motivation > content > volume. I’ve already poked him about that and this was a roundabout way to encourage him to do some actual analysis to help me get a read on him.

@Captain_Klutz

I didn’t actually know what he meant by “leash”. But a “block” is just a bunch of players that are confirmed non scum. I would expect them to vote according to their own reads. Similarly, if the masons were also all to claim (which I did not support), they would also be voting according to their own reads.

OK, fair enough. I guess without a confirmed town or mason, who would keep them in check?

[Prof.Pepperwinkle]

@GuiriEnEspana

@Prof.P., #1161 should we wait for you to do the analysis of post patterns? Here I’ve compared D1 and D2 for you based on the numbers you quoted, what are your reads?[spoiler]Not here on D1:
paulwhoisaghost 106

Roughly equal
LightFoot D1 91, D2 62
snfaulkner D1 60, D2 78
jsgoddess D1 44, D2 28
GuiriEnEspaña D1 41, D2 27
Drain Bead D1 37, D2 36
Biotop D1 29, D2 19
Johnny Bravo D1 25, D2 20
Boozahol Squid, P.I. D1 24, D2 14
bufftabby D1 24, D2 15
HookerChemical D1 23, D2 22
TexCat D1 22, D2 25
sachertorte D1 21, D2 31
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies D1 17, D2 11
Hockey Monkey D1 17, D2 20
Scathach D1 16, D2 16
Zeriel D1 13, D2 10
nesta D1 6, D2 9
MHaye D1 5, D2 4
Hawkeyeop D1 5, D2 7

Massive increase (+50%)
raventhief D1 42, D2 63
Sunny Daze D1 22, D2 37
Captain Klutz D1 17, D2 27
Crys75 D1 12, D2 62
BillMC D1 6, D2 12
ToeJam D1 5, D2 17
Inner Stickler D1 3, D2 17

+50% but low volume
DiggitCamara D1 5, D2 10
Khameleon D1 3, D2 8
Koldanar D1 3, D2 10

Massive decrease (-50%)
Plumpudding D1 81, D2 17
AngeloftheNorth D1 70, D2 23
Meeko D1 64, D2 28
Total Lost D1 59, D2 9
Prof. Pepperwinkle D1 56, D2 24
Thing Fish D1 54, D2 27
Hoopy Frood D1 22, D2 10
Lakai D1 18, D2 (subbed back in) 5
Nanook of the North Shore D1 16, D2 2
sinjin D1 14, D2 7

-50% but low volume anyway
Pleonast D1 10, D2 5
Enderw24 D1 8, D2 2
Sario D1 5, D2 1
Hal Briston D1 3, D2 1
Idle Thoughts D1 3, D2 4[/spoiler]

@LightFoot

It is Prof’s go to post count filler and sometimes a reason to vote. ( intended or no) but content is not addressed ( generally).100 posts with three good ideas is NOT worth more than 7 posts with no fluffy bunnies hopping around . Do you agree?

Yay! I had three good ideas! That might be a record. Looking for patterns with only two points of data per person seems premature, but Angel, for example, is a notoriously high poster (unless, of course, RL gets in the way), so her massive drop in posts is worth keeping a look at in the future. And, as has been already mentioned, Idle did start this commotion, so his very low posting rate is notable as well.

I will attend more to this once I’ve had my morning coffee.

[Plumpudding]

Bye Chronos, bye brewha.

@GuiriEnEspana

Bolding added. Each Night? Or did you mean starting just toNight, since you said you were not around last Night. And you’re claiming VT, or a role without a power? Or trying to cover up a power in case you’re watched? And given your experience in Mafia, why the hell do you think inventing an imaginary role would somehow be accepted by the moderators and included in the game? Can I vote you now?

Nice catch. Looking forward to the answer. Anyway, the idea of targeting someone as vanilla is silly, and probably a big annoyance for the mods.

@Prof.Pepperwinkle

Yay! I had three good ideas! That might be a record. Looking for patterns with only two points of data per person seems premature, but Angel, for example, is a notoriously high poster (unless, of course, RL gets in the way), so her massive drop in posts is worth keeping a look at in the future. And, as has been already mentioned, Idle did start this commotion, so his very low posting rate is notable as well.

I will attend more to this once I’ve had my morning coffee.

@Prof: Why did you single out Angel? How about, for example, me? You know how active I can be, why is that of less interest? A few more questions: Is a massive drop in posts more suspicious than a massive increase? Or a roughly even count, for that matter?

Anyway, I’ve thought more about the Crys and sachertorte claims, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I believe them for now. High risk for little gain, basically.

And the more I read of ToeJam, the more I think he’s scum.

[Drain_Bead]

@Meeko

This is where I am with all of this:

The scale of the game disenfranchises Vanilla Town (participation). Like, to a level I don’t think anyone saw coming.

This game is so entirely easy to skim, if not ignore outright, because everyone is so preliminary on everyone else. They remain that way. Consistently. If you doubt me, assume you are playing as vanilla town, and don’t have the vocabulary, let alone alphabet of half the stuff you are watching. Everything, everyone, every post, is skimmable, until it isn’t. It’s becomes unskimmable the moment a vote, or plain English makes a demand on those who aren’t power roles.

If we repeat a game with such a big player base again, I would suggest that power roles are reconfigured. I fear the mods simply “fixed” the setup with addition, when something closer to multiplication would have been better. We needed more powers than we got in this game, on a manifold scale, not a number line, or tally system, where every fifth player got a slanted line, and a power.

The real issue is this.

I can, and frankly probably will, drop out of this game of my own volition. However, you will not mourn me. Not because of me personally, … Not because “Oh great Meeko is not longer playing” … But because even my death, at vanilla town is even more further disposable. I stop playing, and nothing changes. Worse, one of the people who has been lurking, also at vanilla town, will probably step up into their originally assigned role at the time I step down anyway. ((Finding a sub for me will not matter))

No.

At this scale, people who can’t give damn, won’t.

The curve into the ivory tower is too high. It does not matter what I do, I am a have not, and my opinion doesn’t matter. The game will believe any claim, and every claim, and that brand of noise will kick Vanilla Town off the radar.

Let’s not even start with the continued double standard of not being able to parse me. Like it’s my fault I speak over you guys. Yes. I said that. No, I won’t change it, or take it back, because we all know I can’t. I do not understand, why you do not understand me, even more than you don’t understand me to begin with.

A bone or two towards me, asking me to clarify? Nope.

I’m not saying I should be ““invited”” to play more, after the game has started. But I see a lot of the opposite happening as is. Directly or indirectly, “active” (relative term) vanilla town has no reason to stay in this game now.

Haven’t finished the thread yet, so not sure if anyone has brought this up, but why the unforced claim? If true, you just shrunk the pool in which the remaining Town power roles could be hiding.
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[Prof.Pepperwinkle]

@Plumpudding

[snip]

@Prof: Why did you single out Angel? How about, for example, me? You know how active I can be, why is that of less interest? A few more questions: Is a massive drop in posts more suspicious than a massive increase? Or a roughly even count, for that matter?

[snip]

Angel is typically one of the top three posters daily in nearly every game I’ve played with her. You, my friend, have had games where you posted a lot on some days and less on others, so a drop in activity on your part is less noticeable.

And, again, there are only 2 points of data per person. Come D4 or later patterns may come more into play. If you are playing the game of Lynch the Lurker (and I am), then low-count posts are more suspect. It is simply easier for Scum to hide by not posting, and not getting caught in slips or lies.

[Plumpudding]

Allright, fair enough. Have Angel given a hint as to why she’s had a massive drop? And I believe I’ve seen Angel drop in volume before, but my memory might deceive me.

So you’re playing lynch the lurker, not Mafia? How do you explain your lack of content, or ‘active lurking’ as they call it?

[Plumpudding]

Hmmm, maybe not that active:p

[Prof.Pepperwinkle]

@Plumpudding

Allright, fair enough. Have Angel given a hint as to why she’s had a massive drop? And I believe I’ve seen Angel drop in volume before, but my memory might deceive me.

So you’re playing lynch the lurker, not Mafia? How do you explain your lack of content, or ‘active lurking’ as they call it?

Oh-kay. Not to be too blunt, but we have 40+ people playing Mafia who have successfully managed to lead Town into repeated lynches of… Town. This isn’t unusual in this game. I’m looking for ways to improve Town’s chances of actually hitting Scum. Because all Scum has to do in this particular game is lay low and automatically escape lynch votes.

[Johnny_Bravo]

@Meeko

I’m not saying I should be ““invited”” to play more, after the game has started. But I see a lot of the opposite happening as is. Directly or indirectly, “active” (relative term) vanilla town has no reason to stay in this game now.

I 100% disagree with your post. You should go into every single game expecting to be vanilla town - even a game of 55 players.

As a sidenote, this was one of the coherent long-form posts you’ve created all game. Just write more like that and less like, say, post #1250.

[Hockey_Monkey]

Meeko. Meeko. Meeko. I finally managed to figure out that you are saying you speak in references. I generally don’t have a clue what you are saying, and now I know why. I don’t share the same point of references as you. I got the Southpark ones. I know what My Little Ponies are, but I’ve never seen them. I’m more likely to get Scooby-Doo, Looney Tunes and Jetsons stuff and the last game system I owned was an Atarti 2600. I’m old. I mean, I try to stay hip, but I’m past the point of really caring if I am or not.

The onus is not on us to understand you. The onus is on you to communicate effectively.
ToeJam. How, um…what? Vanilla townies should be targeting themselves every night? Vanilla…um, how’s that work now? Why would you think…how do players with no action to play…? I can’t even.

[Drain_Bead]

@GuiriEnEspana

Farewell Chronos & Brewha, welcome Cygnus & Svejk, thanks!

@ToeJam, #1063, I never used the second lynch as a reason to vote. Someone had commented that Crys would have reached the threshold for a second lynch had it not been for the votes on you but the vote record doesn’t look like there was ever enough momentum

@Total, #1066, do you mean a WoW? I think it a review of a player’s posts would be useful but it would need to be objective - a neutral paraphrase, with comments added separately, just sharing your thoughts without support evidence isn’t really a massive help… if enough players do it, it might be a time saver

@Thing Fish, #1099, there’s no smoking gun but there’s still meat in the vote records - I’d like to hear reasoning from nesta and inner stickler!

@raventhief, #1103, didn’t you yourself jump off the brewha train at the last minute?

@Drain Bead, #1113, why do you suspect Total’s participation dropped off so much? Do you think she was pushing for the claim and once she achieved her goal, had little more to do?

I have really mixed feelings about Prof.P. and his #1116 says it all “hey, here’s a list of people who are doing exactly what I’m doing, we should be suspicious of them!”. It’s consistent but is starting to feel like a party trick, a policy vote, to allow him to keep up a pretense of scum hunting

@Captain Klutz, in #896 you liked Johnny Bravo’s plan to leash the cultists, but then in #1119 you disagree with “compelling them to vote the same way”, what did you understand by “leash” and “block”?

@ToeJam, #1123, why exactly do you think scum want you dead? #1132, the convoluted plan to have people target him was not brewha’s, but Chronos’ - mason, is that really part of why you voted brewha?

Sorry for quoting the whole post, but deleting stuff is a pain on mobile and I’m still trying to catch up.

I don’t think that it was a “my work here is done” moment. I think that once he claimed, she realized that she was the one who was putting the most pressure on him, so she went into lurker mode in the hopes that people forgot. The drop-off in participation after that event was drastic. She was also one of the ones who FOSed colby for the “slip” but didn’t vote for him, which is why I did the WoW on her in the first place. The arguments she has made in the game have generally given me a Town lean (and the drop in participation could be as much “oh fuck” townie as it is Scum), but those two actions have given me a reason to keep an eye on her. To me, in this game, actions speak louder than words. It’s why I kept voting for brewha on D2. He lied, and his explanation for why rang hollow, and when I said “Why lie when you could just not address it at all?” I never got a good answer from anyone. Someone else asked me why I kept voting for him, and that’s why.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hockey_Monkey]

Oh and Meeko,

Eep, Opp, Ork, Ah Ah.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

@Hockey_Monkey

Oh and Meeko,

Eep, Opp, Ork, Ah Ah.

Ching chang walla walla bing bang!

[raventhief]

@GuiriEnEspana

Farewell Chronos & Brewha, welcome Cygnus & Svejk, thanks!

@ToeJam, #1063, I never used the second lynch as a reason to vote. Someone had commented that Crys would have reached the threshold for a second lynch had it not been for the votes on you but the vote record doesn’t look like there was ever enough momentum

@Total, #1066, do you mean a WoW? I think it a review of a player’s posts would be useful but it would need to be objective - a neutral paraphrase, with comments added separately, just sharing your thoughts without support evidence isn’t really a massive help… if enough players do it, it might be a time saver

@Thing Fish, #1099, there’s no smoking gun but there’s still meat in the vote records - I’d like to hear reasoning from nesta and inner stickler!

@raventhief, #1103, didn’t you yourself jump off the brewha train at the last minute?

@Drain Bead, #1113, why do you suspect Total’s participation dropped off so much? Do you think she was pushing for the claim and once she achieved her goal, had little more to do?

I have really mixed feelings about Prof.P. and his #1116 says it all “hey, here’s a list of people who are doing exactly what I’m doing, we should be suspicious of them!”. It’s consistent but is starting to feel like a party trick, a policy vote, to allow him to keep up a pretense of scum hunting

@Captain Klutz, in #896 you liked Johnny Bravo’s plan to leash the cultists, but then in #1119 you disagree with “compelling them to vote the same way”, what did you understand by “leash” and “block”?

@ToeJam, #1123, why exactly do you think scum want you dead? #1132, the convoluted plan to have people target him was not brewha’s, but Chronos’ - mason, is that really part of why you voted brewha?

I was concerned that there were scum trying to protect brewha- and that was a concern even though i know I’m town. I explained to toejam why i moved my vote back to him after he came back to save himself from a mod kill. Just because i know my motives are pure, doesn’t mean a thing when it comes to everyone else.

[MHaye]

@ToeJam

And Mhaye, I’m not going to claim at 10 votes (when you first asked), nor at 14 votes. But it is interesting that you’re voting me and hinting/asking to get a claim out of me. Since when do you play like that, why not just wait until Day 3? Why did it need to happen in the last 12 hours of mafia, when many people are away and not even able to catch up?
-R

At the point I was at when I asked you for information, I had come to the following position.[ol][li]I had read large chunks of the Days, but still had some holes.[/li][li]I had a general sense that the vote leaders were Brewha, Crys75 and yourself.[/li][li]I had decided that it was not good to vote Crys, as there was some evidence supporting her claim, and if true she was an obstacle to the scum teams but not Town[/li][li]I had satisfied myself that Brewha had lied for an understandable (if ill-advised) reason, and that he was claiming vanilla Town truthfully, and [*]I didn’t have the time to review your posting history before Nightfall.[/ol]So I asked. You chose not to respond, therefore I voted you because at that point your flip would maximise the information yield.[/li]
Yes that’s cold-hearted. Sorry, but that’s early game Mafia for you. As the game progresses, I’m likely to shift focus to other issues, but in the early game I’m all about maximising information.

Onward to Dawn.

[Cygnus42]

Hi all - a few thoughts from me, while we wait for the next Day:

I wasn’t crazy about how the voting train ramped up on brewha and Crys on D1, but I can understand why it happened. At that point, I think the lynch leader had 2 votes, with 1 each on several others. So, once something unusual occurred, people flocked to it.

Johnny Bravo - looks like a pro-town concern about helping out scum with night strategy - not relevant in this game, as has been pointed out, but seems genuine to me.

Crys75 & sachertorte - Cult buddies, probably harmless for now, though we will need to see a death message from one of them at some point, to solidify their claims.

ToeJam - Still worthy of suspicion, despite attempts to save himself late in D1. Need an explanation of ‘vanilla town targeting themselves to confuse scum’, this makes no sense.

Meeko - I have no idea what’s going on here

Like others have said, looking closely into who all joined the brewha wagon would be a good place to start for D3.