It wasn’t an idea either. Why are you twisting it to look like it is? Did you even GO back and read the post?
Here:
Note the bolded part. :rolleyes:
Anyway, I finally found the vote list and I see it’s not updated as I think I have five against me right now.
And guess what? I’m not usually on PST anytime before Noon. I’ve said this before in many past games. I’ll certainly try to be tomorrow, but:
- I’m not sure if I’m going to be able to, for sure
- If I am, it’ll be with about an hour to an hour and a half to spare before Day ends.
So, without further ado, I am a Witchdoctor. I hesitate to use “the” Witchdoctor there because Pleonast has said there could be multiples of each role however I’d find it very, very in favor of Town if there’s two Witchdoctors, so I’m leaning more toward thinking I’m the only one.
I’ll be on for about one or two more hours tonight, but when I leave, don’t expect me back until about 10 or 10:30 AM tomorrow, PST (if I can, and I certainly hope so).
I’m not twisting any damn thing, Idle. I’m just pointing out that, whatever the hell you want to call it, you brought up the concept? Possibility? Hypothesis? Notion? Theory? Thought? of a mass role claim. Even included the question “Wouldn’t a mass roleclaim screw scum over?” before your disclaimer.
I never said anywhere that you said “let’s do this”. Or quote me where I did. But whatever the hell you want to call it, you posted it.
Can we stop with the nitpicky semantics game now?
Oh yeah, amrussell ain’t coming back to life either. Not unless there’s another Witchdoctor.
So you see, like I said, it doesn’t matter if sach tells us if he was a Freemason or not. Just a simple yes or no would do.
throws up hands And now, the whole discussion is pointless, I guess. At least I can stop looking through Day Two of Firefly trying to find that discussion.
Try Question.
Here, you said:
To me, the word suggestion means: “hey, what about us doing this?”
First, I’m in favor of sach saying yea or nay whether amrussell was a freemason because it is one more data point in sach’s favor should he get it right, especially if amrussell really wasn’t a freemason. I’m more concerned that he hasn’t given us whatever information he has about Fretful or OAOW, though. Even if he’s right about the side but one or both of them turns out to have a specific role, and not just a side, then I’m going to be very suspicious of sach. I think it would at least help if he would clear up whether there was any more information to share on those two. If his claim is true he shouldn’t be afraid to give us any scum info he has.
That said, I can’t figure out why you keep insisting that if sach is indeed the coroner that his revealing whether or not amrussell was a freemason doesn’t help the scum in any way, because it obviously does, and many people have pointed it out. To name a few reasons if you can’t figure them out for yourself:
-
As some others have pointed out it keeps the scum guessing a little about role-claims. If they think that it’s possible that amrussell wasn’t really a mason they might slip up while trying to work around that.
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The scum might use the fact that amrussell was a freemason to try to work out who the others are. If they have some doubt about that it might hinder their efforts.
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If amrussell really wasn’t a freemason then the scum wouldn’t be led astray by his role-claim, and any confusion we can cause the scum is good.
-
Not specific to amrussell’s role, but I can also see sach not wanting to set a precedent that he needs to reveal the roles in the future so that when a townie is killed without claiming it doesn’t look suspicious if he just says, “town, trust me.”
I weighed these types of things against our need to verify sach as much as possible and as soon as possible and think being able to trust him is more in our favor than the slight information advantage that we keep by not revealing amrussell’s freemason status. I think Today is good evidence why we want to get discussion of sach done with rather than dragging it on.
I also think item 4 above isn’t really much of an issue because sach could easily chime in and say he won’t be revealing roles for un-role-claimed townies so as not to give the scum more information. My biggest issue with him right now is that he hasn’t chimed in to explain his reasons at all, which I find odd.
If he is the coroner and wants to keep town roles to himself it’s his role and I’m not going to lynch him for it. If he isn’t the coroner he’s either already made a mistake with the sides or probably will soon. If it gets down to mid/endgame and he hasn’t been night killed and is still playing things that close to the vest he’s going to start looking more and more suspicious.
Now, Idle, I don’t know if it’s your play style or what that makes you always seem suspicious to me, but you’re doing it again here. You seem to be harping on sach about amrussell’s status rather than on what else he got about OAOW and Fretful and in my mind his biggest offense of not even trying to explain why he is giving us the information he is. You even went so far as to vote for him. You don’t want to lynch him Today, right? If you’ve said that, what kind of pressure can your vote really give whether he’s scum or not, since he can just ignore it. Your behavior here is odd. I’m now a little suspicious of you, but I’m trying to weigh this against my WIFOM of thinking scum probably wouldn’t stick their neck out like you are doing.
Idle Thoughts,
Running through the situations with **amrussell ** a freemason
**sachertorte ** claims amrussell is a freemason:
The town believes that at least 1+ freemason exists, the freemasons think **sachertorte ** is telling the truth and the scum will definitely not choose freemasons as a claim. sachertorte goes unlynched.
**sachertorte ** claims amrussell is NOT a freemason:
The town does not know if freemason exists, the freemasons, if they exist, know if **sachertorte ** is lying and the scum may choose freemasons as a claim because they may or may not exist (they are part of the town remember)
sachertorte gets lynched.
Running through the situations with **amrussell ** NOT a freemason
Freemasons in the game and **sachertorte ** claims amrussell is a freemason:
The town believes that at least 1+ freemason exists, the freemasons know that **sachertorte ** is lying and the scum will definitely not choose freemasons as a claim.
**sachertorte ** then gets lynched.
No Freemasons in the game and **sachertorte ** claims amrussell is NOT a freemason:
The town does not know if freemason exists and the scum may choose freemasons as a claim because they may or may not exist
sachertorte does not get lynched.
No Freemasons in the game and **sachertorte ** claims amrussell is a freemason:
The town believes that at least 1+ freemason exists, no-one knows if **sachertorte ** is lying and the scum will definitely not choose freemasons as a claim.
**sachertorte ** then gets lynched when proved false.
No Freemasons in the game and **sachertorte ** claims amrussell is NOT a freemason:
The town does not know if freemason exists and the scum may choose freemasons as a claim because they may or may not exist
sachertorte does not get lynched.
I think the above covers all the situations that might occur and frankly it’s as clear as mud.
Your basic assumption is that no scum would be stupid enough to claim freemason because the other freemasons would know about it.
We don’t know yet if the freemasons actually exist. If **sachertorte ** says **amrussell ** is one, the scum will have to steer clear of that as a false role claim because of the risk of being outed. If **sachertorte ** says **amrussell ** is not one, they may claim it because Freemasons may or may not exist. If it is a missing role, then the scum will be well pleased with themselves if they manage to claim it.
What I don’t understand is your continued aggression that **sachertorte ** has to reveal the role of the dead town member when by confirming the role of the dead Wolf provides nearly as good a test with no benefit to the scum at all.
I can only think that you want to quickly fill in the gaps for your scum group (and the scum in general) by narrowing down what town roles do exist, to make it easier for you to false claim.
If I’m wrong, I’m sure you’ll tell me 
Great, Idle has role-claimed now. I still think my points are valid even if his claim is true.
Yeah, well, I actually was using it in the sense of “A psychological process by which an idea is induced in or adopted by another without argument, command, or coercion.” especially with the “Wouldn’t a mass roleclaim screw scum over?”, seeing as how it’d be so easy to later point out “Hey, I did say I wasn’t actually encouraging anyone to do it”.
Why’s it not an “idea” though?
Rest cut because that’s the only thing I’M suggesting yet people are finding me scummy for it.
Even though: Sach hasn’t been in this topic since and refused to say either or in his last post.
And people aren’t finding that suspicious…
I replied to this when that other person said it. I’ll say it again here, I disagree. There are TWO other Freemasons out there IF amr was a Freemason. I don’t see why or how knowing if amr was one would make them any more or less likely to claim Freemason (or any other role).
And how, exactly, could they do this?
I still don’t buy it. See what I said above to the second quote.
And if he can get a role right I’m more willing to do have trust in him.
What about OAOW? If he is a Cabalist, what more is there? I thought that they were only of that group and didn’t have roles?
Enough votes and he’ll talk, I’m thinking. If he can’t or won’t (for any reason, but the only reason I can think of is: he can’t) reveal a role, then yeah, my vote will stay there, because I find only giving out half the info suspicious. YMobviouslyV.
Hmm,
A powerful but pretty unverifiable power role unless he guesses right vs. the fact that **Idle Thoughts ** looks scummy.
Decisions, decisions… 
Idle Thoughts said this earlier on in the thread. For someone who’s the Witchdoctor, he’s awfully unsure of the role. “Whatever the protecting role is”? Rysto pointed this out a while ago, too, right after Idle Thoughts said it.
I’m not convinced he’s the Witch Doctor.
vote Idle Thoughts
Shoot. I forgot that I’m supposed to vote in blue…do I need to repost that, Pleonast?
**Zoggie **, I would suggest reposting in the correct colours.
I am sure Pleonast can work it out for himself
I was trying to make up my mind between voting for Drain Bead or Idle. I was leaning toward Drain anyway. Unless there’s a witchdoctor counter-claim I’m giving Idle the benefit of the doubt for now so that makes the decision easier.
Vote Drain Bead
Her vote for sach makes even less sense to me than Idle’s, because at least Idle gave a strong justification and had built a bit of a case for his suspicion. Drain Bead on the other hand just cited Idle’s case and her backtracking on whether she was voting because she thought sach was scum and should be lynched or whether she was just putting pressure on him doesn’t sit right with me.
Unless amrussell is revealed NOT to be a Freemason.
I don’t see why scum would choose Freemason in the first place. Even I only did it under extreme hesitation and against my better judgement last game. But it’s a very stupid thing to do. So I don’t feel that point holds any water.
When? Today? I’m don’t think we should lynch sach at all if she says yea or nay. What should be done then is just wait until amr’s role is revealed and if he’s a Freemason, one trust point for sach. If not, lynch the next Day.
When? Today? I’m don’t think we should lynch sach at all if she says yea or nay. What should be done then is just wait until amr’s role is revealed and if he’s a NOT A Freemason, A WHOLE SHITLOAD OF trust points for sach. If he is, lynch the next Day.
Again, then after he says yea or nay and we see amr’s role from Pleo, 10 trust points for sach.
Which will be when Pleo reveals the role.
Again, then after he says yea or nay and we see amr’s role from Pleo, 10 trust points for sach.
That but more importantly this: That it doesn’t matter. They could claim anything as we don’t know what is in this game and what isn’t. If amrussell was really Town (and sach says he was** WHY would he claim Freemason if there weren’t any Freemasons? There HAS to be Freemasons then, otherwise he’d be playing a stupid move and getting the possible Freemasons to think he was scum.
So why would scum role claim Freemason when at least one or two others WHO ARE TOWN, will know you’re lying? It’s better to claim something else. ANYTHING else other than Witch (who are like Freemasons in their own right). So again, your point holds no weight.
[quote]
We don’t know yet if the freemasons actually exist.
[quote]
Then the question remains. Why did amr claim he was one if he’s Town? We already have HEARD he was Town…so if he’s not a Freemason, why’d he say it?
I’m not asking him to reveal the role. If he wasn’t a Freemason, I do not want to know what he was. I just want to know IF HE WAS A FREEMASON OR NOT. There is a big difference and yes, it would put more trust in sach’s claim.
Well, I’m the Witchdoctor, so what you excuse you think it is now?
An idea is something you want to try out.
Compare the two sentences:
“Hey guys! I have this great idea! How about a mass-roleclaim?”
“I have a question. What’s stopping Town from just doing a mass-roleclaim?”
I bring people back to life. I don’t protect them. I didn’t know that the/a Witchdoctor was the Doctor for this game. My simple mistake.
Okay, well, if people don’t believe me, here’s more.
I have more powers than bringing people back to life. It is NOT in your best interest to lynch me, you true Townies out there. Trust me.