Mafia: The Conspiracy

[Idle_Thoughts]

Nope, I didn’t talk to anyone. As I have said before, I will say again: I will NOT talk to someone just on the basis of “they are Town”. I would rather hear from Pleonast, then, what they roles are so that I may be sure, since it seems sach is not giving them out.

Speaking of sach more trust points for him. I’m now leaning more toward believing he is the Coroner than not. But I still don’t understand the sense behind: Talk with them if you want to talk with someone. She said this first with amr, then with DB and most recently with Rysto. Three different people. After I’ve already said that I wish to wait and talk with a Witch the most followed by the list I gave, in that order.
How saying “They’re Town, talk to them.” help me learn which of them is a Witch (if any are), I don’t know.

[Idle_Thoughts]

Sorry, I mean HE. sach is a HE. :smack: For some reason, my mind finds this so hard to comprehend. It’s of the firm believe sach is a female, even though I know he isn’t. :smack:

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Zoggie

But another thing that’s pinging my radar is that neither sacher nor Idle is dead. Granted, scum might be able to use a coroner. But wouldn’t scum want a Townie who can talk to the dead and resurrect gone?

More smudging.
I can think of a couple reasons, one of which is obvious. :rolleyes: Because if they kill me and I’m enchanting myself, I come back from the dead with one of their names.

This has been said a few times. Yet it seems to you so out there why scum would want to stay away, to the point where you want to continue the Day suspicion on me.

Vote Zoggie

[sachertorte]

Ah, fluiddruid. Fair fluiddruid. Fair and furry fluiddruid. Alignment: Wolf
Good job Town!

As you all know now, amrussell is a Freemason. I decided not to reveal her role because I felt knowledge of the existence of Freemasons would have helped scum more than revealing her role would have helped confirm myself. Seriously, no one should have been impressed if I said amrussell was a Freemason after she had already claimed.

[sachertorte]

@Idle Thoughts

But I still don’t understand the sense behind: Talk with them if you want to talk with someone.

Because, by doing so, WE can CONFIRM YOU.

And I don’t believe I explicitly said for you to Talk with Drain Bead, only that you would have proof of Drain Bead’s Town status prior to choosing to talk with her.

If you had talked with Rysto last night, you could have learned his Role as well as any information he might have, and reported back to the town. By pre-empting me and Pleonast with Rysto’s Role information you prove to the town that you did what you say you can do.

[Blaster_Master]

@Idle Thoughts

Nope, I didn’t talk to anyone. As I have said before, I will say again: I will NOT talk to someone just on the basis of “they are Town”. I would rather hear from Pleonast, then, what they roles are so that I may be sure, since it seems sach is not giving them out.

Speaking of sach more trust points for him. I’m now leaning more toward believing he is the Coroner than not. But I still don’t understand the sense behind: Talk with them if you want to talk with someone. She said this first with amr, then with DB and most recently with Rysto. Three different people. After I’ve already said that I wish to wait and talk with a Witch the most followed by the list I gave, in that order.
How saying “They’re Town, talk to them.” help me learn which of them is a Witch (if any are), I don’t know.

Well, here’s MY problem with the situation. Suppose Rysto was a seer or witch or detective, if Rysto reveals that before hand, you then have the opportunity, if you’re scum, to make up the results of the investigation. If he is the seer or detective, we’d have no independent verification of those results… if he’s a witch, the rest of the witches have the dilemma of letting to mislead the town or outting themselves if, in fact, you’re a liar.

OTOH, if you take his word for it, by him confirming your result (which he can no longer do with Rysto), then the town either gets two scum when he eventually screws up in his guessing game, or we KNOW that one of you is scum if you disagree and need only wait for Pleo’s confirmation to decide which one of you two to lynch. Thus, by YOU naming the role, you give yourself some credibility. And, if he lied about the role and the person came up as scum or a town-role that wouldn’t make sense to talk to, I’d consider it a fair trade of that power for getting scum.

Of course, that all said, you shouldn’t publicly state your intention to follow the plan or not, because that let’s the scum know if you’re ripe for the pickin’. Similarly, because it would no longer bear any resemblance of you being able to gain a level of confirmation, even if Rysto IS some kind of investigative role… I’d advise against Sachetorte suggesting you speak to him again.

[DiggitCamara]

@sachertorte

Ah, fluiddruid. Fair fluiddruid. Fair and furry fluiddruid. Alignment: Wolf
Good job Town!

As you all know now, amrussell is a Freemason. I decided not to reveal her role because I felt knowledge of the existence of Freemasons would have helped scum more than revealing her role would have helped confirm myself. Seriously, no one should have been impressed if I said amrussell was a Freemason after she had already claimed.

What’s it with the zombie werewolves in this town? And why are they all female?

[Idle_Thoughts]

@sachertorte

Because, by doing so, WE can CONFIRM YOU.

But I don’t want to talk with anyone else other than what I’ve listed. YOU are not saying if any of the dead are any that I listed. So pardon me if I don’t take your word for it and prefer to wait until I do know if they are any that I listed.

And I don’t believe I explicitly said for you to Talk with Drain Bead, only that you would have proof of Drain Bead’s Town status prior to choosing to talk with her.

You said to talk with her and find it out myself. Just like you said the same thing about amr at the time.

If you had talked with Rysto last night, you could have learned his Role as well as any information he might have, and reported back to the town. By pre-empting me and Pleonast with Rysto’s Role information you prove to the town that you did what you say you can do.

Sorry, I don’t know what Rysto is. I’m not taking that chance on wasting the talk.

[Freudian_Slit]

But how is it a waste? It’s not as if you only have a limited number of times to talk to the dead…or do you? (Sorry if I’ve missed something.)

[Hockey_Monkey]

OK folks, gather round the campfire…I’m going to tell you a scary story.

I’ve given a lot of thought to this, and I think it is a good time to come forward with my information so the Town can put some good use to it.

I am the Chief Detective. My role PM states that I am not just a Detective, but the Chief. During the day, I investigate the death of one person killed overnight. I can only investigate one of the previous night’s deaths. If the person I investigate was killed by a Vampire, I get no result. If the person was not killed by a Vampire I will learn the name of the killer. Guess what? I have secret powers too! Once during the game I can determine the number of Werewolfs currently alive instead of investigating a death. Once during the game I can determine the number of Vampires currently alive instead of investigating. My third secret power I will leave a secret for now because I haven’t used it.

Day One: no one was dead yet, so I used secret power number one to determine the number of Wolves.

Day Two: I had to trust Sachertorte’s information, because otherwise my investigation would be a shot in the dark. Since he revealed Fretful Porpentine as a Wolf, I figured the Wolves didn’t kill him. I investigated amrussell’s death instead. I got a result.

Day Three: If the Wolves were smart, I figured they would send out the same killer to lunch their victim to minimize their exposure to me, the Detective. Since Sachertorte did not reveal the sides of the dead right away, my investigation of a death would have been a shot in the dark anyway. Instead, I used the opportunity to execute secret power number two and determined the number of Vampires in the game.

Here’s the scary part:
There were 5 Wolves at the start of the Game.
amrussell was killed by MHaye
There is currently one Vampire in the game as of dusk yesterDay.

Now, we know a lot of information. What can we glean from the information we have?

We know that there is a Necromancer from the appearance of a Zombie.
There is one Vampire. If fluiddruid was a Vampire, she does not count as the “one” because I receive results based on players currently alive and she was dead at dusk.
There are/were three Werewolves alive as of dusk yesterDay. If any were killed overnight, that info would be helpful in determining the number alive now.
We know there are Cabalists in the Game as OAOW was revealed as one. I don’t know how many Cabalists there are left, but I would hazard a guess of two.
We know there are Freemasons.

I obviously wrote this before learning of fluiddruid’s alignment.

That gives us a really good estimate of the number of the Scum Faction. I count seven from that list.

Who is left alive that has not claimed?

MHaye - Werewolf
Diomedes
CatInASuit
HazelNutCoffee
DiggitCamara
Blaster Master
Pygmy (Santos) Rugger
MadTheSwine/Dotchan
Zoggie
ShadowFacts

Who are dead but unknown?

Fluiddruid - Werewolf
Nesta
Kat

What does this mean? That the majority of players left alive are scum of some sort.

We know that we can lynch MHaye today, but I would rather be able to lynch the Vampire. With him/her out of the way, we go down to one kill per night for the Scum. And we can pick off the remaining Wolves. If there is a Vigilante, I suggest killing MHaye tonight. Or, if we cannot come to a good consensus on another person to lynch, we can kill MHaye at the end of the day. We still need to use our time for strategy discussion. I am not overly concerned with the Necromancer or the Cabal at this point in the game, although in the next couple of game Days they will become a factor. With the information we have, I would suggest that if we have any Witches, they come forward and confirm themselves and give the results of their investigations, especially if they know the identity of the Vampire. This will narrow our Scum Pool significantly.

I would like some insight from Sachertorte and Idle Thoughts on what we should do with this information. Sorry, but the rest of you aren’t exactly high on my “Not Scum List”.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Blaster Master

Well, here’s MY problem with the situation. Suppose Rysto was a seer or witch or detective, if Rysto reveals that before hand, you then have the opportunity, if you’re scum, to make up the results of the investigation. If he is the seer or detective, we’d have no independent verification of those results… if he’s a witch, the rest of the witches have the dilemma of letting to mislead the town or outting themselves if, in fact, you’re a liar.

OR…the thing you’re forgetting seemingly… :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: …sach could just say what s/he was right now, just like he could have yesterDay before Night fell.

Rest snipped because none of it is relevant. I could easily know what someone is just by the Coroner doing their job. The one they’re refusing to do even though they role claimed it.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Zoggie

But how is it a waste? It’s not as if you only have a limited number of times to talk to the dead…or do you? (Sorry if I’ve missed something.)

As I’ve been saying and have said many times before, I can talk with ONLY ONE PERSON one time in the whole, entire game. Only one. One time. So I must choose wisely…because if I talk to scum, it’s wasted and I learn nothing.
If I talk to a role that is Town but has little or no info to give, it’s wasted and I learn nothing.
If I try to talk to a role and it’s somehow blocked for whatever reason, it’s wasted and I learn nothing.

And not to mention in ALL of the cases above, I would also not have much to verify me or confirm me, now would I?

So again, sorry if I’m not so quick to just talk with any “Townie” that I know of. I prefer to bide my time and be sure.

[Blaster_Master]

@Idle Thoughts

More smudging.
I can think of a couple reasons, one of which is obvious. :rolleyes: Because if they kill me and I’m enchanting myself, I come back from the dead with one of their names.

This has been said a few times. Yet it seems to you so out there why scum would want to stay away, to the point where you want to continue the Day suspicion on me.

Vote Zoggie

Now, I’m suspicious of Zoggie, but this is an OMGUS vote. My understanding is that this is her first game and, unless she followed several of the earlier games closely, may be unaware of how that can be manipulated by the scum to redirect suspicion. Thus, because the motivation is unclear, this is more or less a null tell.

Now the smudging, OTOH, doesn’t make a whole lot of sense from a town perspective. Sach is little more than a mostly confirmed townie that provides information that is not particularly hurtful to the scum and, in some cases, may be beneficial. Taking him out at this point, when each scum faction is worried about two other scum factions and the pro-town power roles, just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Confirmed townies don’t become a big threat until late in the game.

As for Idle, the scum are probably inclined to believe him, and even if they’re not, absent a counter-claim, the risk is VERY high if he is telling the truth. First of all, they essentially waste a kill attempt, meanwhile they pretty much confirm him AND give up one of their names? This is devestating if the killer is the vampire, because that’s going to make the necromancer’s job a lot harder AND lengthen the game which favors the town. If the killer is a wolf, they’re already down two (which they obviously would have known going into the Night) which means they’re already behind, and that risk would seriously cripple them, or potentially even knock them out if there were only 3 wolves to begin with, though that’s unlikely.

[Blaster_Master]

You know what, Idle… let’s just agree to disagree. You’re obviously not following the logic, I’m tired of restating myself, and it’s a huge distraction from the town. So, just forget it… We need to focus on finding scum, not encouraging arguments between two likely townies.

[Hockey_Monkey]

Yes, Idle, let’s please put that argument on the back burner and discuss something else…like what we are going to do with the information I just gave you.

[Blaster_Master]

Oh my, Hockey… quite a bit you laid on us there.

Obviously, your explanation fits well with the information we have at hand… further, it fits my intuition about the number of wolves and vampires in the game. So it seems believable from a consistency stand-point.

However, I am a bit concerned by your request for the witches to come out. Unless they have reason to believe you and/or know who the vampire is… I’m not sure about the efficacy of them revealing themselves… OTOH, since the witches share information, especially if all three are still alive, perhaps they could have only one reveal his identity?

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Blaster Master

Now, I’m suspicious of Zoggie, but this is an OMGUS vote.

How so? I voted for her three Days running now. How is it OMGUS when I’ve been consistant?

My understanding is that this is her first game and, unless she followed several of the earlier games closely, may be unaware of how that can be manipulated by the scum to redirect suspicion. Thus, because the motivation is unclear, this is more or less a null tell.

I not only disagree, I disagree more with this statement than I’ve ever disagreed with anything that anyone has ever disagreed with in the history of this world and I’m actually surprised at you, Blaster, for letting someone go with the “oh, they’re new” defense.

What does being new have anything to do with anything? So people new to the game couldn’t be scum? Or how about this, people new to the game couldn’t possibly be scum AND try to use that “I’m new” card to their advantage?

Maybe Zoggie is scum and maybe she’s not, but I don’t see what anyone being new to the game has anything to do with it. I don’t think people should get passes for being suspicious just because this is their first game.

As for Idle, the scum are probably inclined to believe him, and even if they’re not, absent a counter-claim, the risk is VERY high if he is telling the truth. First of all, they essentially waste a kill attempt, meanwhile they pretty much confirm him AND give up one of their names? This is devestating if the killer is the vampire, because that’s going to make the necromancer’s job a lot harder AND lengthen the game which favors the town. If the killer is a wolf, they’re already down two (which they obviously would have known going into the Night) which means they’re already behind, and that risk would seriously cripple them, or potentially even knock them out if there were only 3 wolves to begin with, though that’s unlikely.

Well, at least we agree on something.

Anyway, also read and digested Hockey’s post. Sounds extremely truthful, at least at first read.

I agree that if there is a Vig in this game, that they should off MHaye at Night…but if enough people vote that way toDay, I don’t see the major harm in that either.

I think Pleo said that every Power Role in this game has secret powers, didn’t he?

And on preview: I’m all for laying it to rest and agreeing to disagree for now.

[Blaster_Master]

@Idle Thoughts

How so? I voted for her three Days running now. How is it OMGUS when I’ve been consistant?

I not only disagree, I disagree more with this statement than I’ve ever disagreed with anything that anyone has ever disagreed with in the history of this world and I’m actually surprised at you, Blaster, for letting someone go with the “oh, they’re new” defense.

What does being new have anything to do with anything? So people new to the game couldn’t be scum? Or how about this, people new to the game couldn’t possibly be scum AND try to use that “I’m new” card to their advantage?

Maybe Zoggie is scum and maybe she’s not, but I don’t see what anyone being new to the game has anything to do with it. I don’t think people should get passes for being suspicious just because this is their first game.

WTF? Did you read what I wrote AT ALL? I was talking about MOTIVATIONS. Motivations INCLUDE things like, say, how much you know about the game. I specifically said I was suspicious of her… but that doesn’t mean I want to see spurious logic supporting a potential lynch, even if I agree with it, because it pokes holes in a legitimate argument.

I intend to take part of the Day to research Zoggie and see what I come up with.

[Blaster_Master]

Oh… and does Sachetorte care to provide any alignment information on nesta or Kat? If one of them is a wolf or vampire, it may prove to be useful information in discerning the veracity of Hockey’s claim.

[ShadowFacts]

@sachertorte

Ah, fluiddruid. Fair fluiddruid. Fair and furry fluiddruid. Alignment: Wolf
Good job Town!

There’s been a lot of interesting information posted already toDay, but I cannot tackle it at the moment as I am opening a show tonight. However, I did want to quickly chime in and say, if sach is right…

WOOHOOOO!!! I didn’t fuck it up at the last minute!!!