Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase [Newbie Friendly!]

Two more things that I would like to point out about Scathach:

  1. Compare this D1 post:

to this D2 post (bolding mine):

There seems to be some contradiction here. Is it good or bad strategy? Is it a bad thing to lynch the loud, or should they be voted for?

  1. This may be overanalysis, but when **Scathach **actually decided during D1 to go over her thoughts with regard to some of the players (which does not lead to a vote, but still), her method is to look at the people that have already been voted for - as if those are the only people to choose from! Perhaps if you want to just pile-on, you look through the votes that have already been cast, and see where you can hitch your wagon most easily…

Okay, I am back. Svejk, I think you make some decent points about Scathach, but I am going to

Vote septimus

I agree with Guiri’s case against septimus that he made one claim about focusing on a certain set of players, but then evaded that when called on it. His Day 1 vote for Precambrian was another vote that seemed like a scum possibly looking for a safe place to park a vote. I also agree that his response to Guiri initial accusation did misconstrue what Guiri said.
I still have my lingering suspicion of Mahaloth from Day 1, but have not really seen anything since to either intensify it or reduce it.

As I was reviewing septimus and Mahaloth, I also became a bit suspicious of fubbleskag, but I will have to investigate that further later.

fubbs, I do think you need to just apologize to Mahaloth, since the comments about his “bitchy” tone and players not liking to play with him were unneccessary in the first place and in my opinion simply incorrect. I do hope Mahaloth returns to the game, even if it is just to lynch him.
Scathach was not really on my radar before Svejk’s case against her, but I do think Svejk makes some decent points. I still prefer the case against septimus, though.

I am so furious right now I could spit venom. Just created my analysis of Inner Stickler’s posts and by accident clicked my right mouse button and went off the page, losing the WHOLE FRAKKING THING. Serves me right for not composing it in EditPad, or at least copying the damn thing once in a while.

Sorry, just had to vent. I’ll be off re-composing the damn masterpiece and will be back soon.

I don’t think Scathach is just voting against Inner Stickler because he’s been “loud.” As my crazy wall of words is about to explain.

So. Now here’s my last over-analysis of “people whom known townies voted for,” on Inner Stickler. Now, since the known townie who voted for him is yours truly, I know my fellow townies are thinking, “um, but you’re not a known townie to us!” Well, obviously. But I am to me, and this is more for my edification than anything else – I’m probably not saying anything you guys haven’t already thought of anyway.

[spoiler]Anyway. To start with, if you look at the numbers, Inner has 44 posts as of my writing this; this makes him seem pretty productive. However, 16 of those were before the game started (on 11/28). Of the remaining 28 in-game posts, 20 were posted on the first day, 11/28. Let’s look at 'em.

  • His first in-game post contains a jibe at special ed, assuring people that special ed’s accusations are usually wrong. ed takes this as normal ribbing/banter. Mind you, later on, Inner will make another crack against ed, which the latter doesn’t find as funny. More on that when I get to it.

  • Next he explains how he sees the game and How It Should Be Played: no random votes, grudges are bad lurkers suck, don’t vote against anyone because of some blanket policy, and slips can be useful info but it’s best to find more supportive material to use as a vote rationale. All sensible guidelines. How could anyone really suspect someone who’s so incredibly kind and helpful?

  • The interaction that follows is so prophetic it’s worthy of a Greek dramatist: fisha mentions how much she hates lynching townies. Inner responds with basically, “meh, no big deal. They’re almost as useful as scum lynches, in that you can tear apart the people who voted for the Townie as possible scumbags.” Inner, need I remind you, voted for fisha, the townie.

  • Next few posts are more help for the newbies, including wevets, whom Inner reassures by saying not to worry too much about Day One voting, vote however you want and we won’t know till Thursday how the lynchee flips.

  • When Mahaloth votes against Svejk for voting randomly, Inner immediately leaps to defend the newcomer. “And when a poor newbie like Svejk tries a random vote like he read about in preparation, he gets lambasted for it.” Again the newbies’ protector! The huddled noob masses yearning to breathe free are thus enfolded by Inner’s warm, and clearly trustworthy, embrace. Or is it the embrace of a boa?

  • Now comes his next anti-special ed post. Well, not really anti ed, just a jibe saying that ed makes people feel inferior. He says this to reassure newbie orcenio, and also reiterates that Day 1 is very tough. (Ahem. That’s twice now, just like me. VINDICATION!! Sorry, I won’t harp on this any more, but spotting these posts cracked me up. What can I say, I’m easily amused.)

Anyway, ed takes the jibe amiss. A few more back and forth banter posts between them along these lines. Clearly there are some rough patches in the Inner/special ed slashfic romance, for when Inner assures ed that he holds ed in the higher tier of player than his lowly self, special ed, perhaps trenchantly, snarks that he hasn’t been snuggled so well in many Days. Inner tosses that snark off with a merry “I don’t care, I’m Town this time and don’t have to censor myself” (paraphrase).

  • In response to someone who again worries about town lynchees, Inner says: “One thing that frustrates the hell out of me is at the beginning of the game, when we’re all feeling each other up in the dark, is that if a townie gets lynched, and that specific townie votes for X, then everyone else goes “X must be scum because the poor lynched bastard voted for him!!” /QUOTE]No, but if as the game progresses and we see a surprising number of red names in the list of people who voted for that person, one tends to draw conclusions.”

Ha! And of course, here’s your humble choie, doing exactly that. Better yet, who was Inner addressing? fisha. Now that’s some choice dramatic coincidence for you.

  • Even more prophecy: Another response to fisha: “The fact of the matter is that some townies are going to be lynched. The sooner we can put away the hair shirts and accept it philosophically, the better off we’ll be. Make lemonade from your townies and look for the scum who pushed their lynch.”

-Fluff and meta chatter finish out Inner’s first day of posts. The next day begins with more game mechanics stuff, and more reassuring Svejk, this time advising him to ask Trepa whether outside docs are kosher.

  • And that’s the end of his posts until Dec. 1. When Svejk turns against his staunch protector and ponders why Inner’s posts are so fluffy–and, now, nonexistant–Inner quickly pipes up to explain that he can’t go online during M-F work days, but he’ll post more often on weekends. (Note: Inner’s 20 posts on the first day were on a Monday; Dec 1 was a Thursday. In fairness, he might have had Monday off if he’s in the U.S. and took an extra post-Thanksgiving vacation day.)

  • Now it’s still Dec 1 (Again: Thursday. Just sayin’.) and Inner ribs me for kvetching about Day One being tough, reminding me that the same thing happened in De’endee for harping on how new I was; he also notes that complaining about Day One could be seen as scummy in a Catch-22 sorta way.

  • And in this post, at long last, Inner votes! For… fisha. Because… he feels her analysis of Silver Jan was too unflattering. He also mentions that fubbleskag’s abstention is annoying, but he’s not sure if that’s as bad as Mahaloth’s reaction to it. So after 21 posts of nuttin’, he lashes out against four of us in a single bound. Now that’s efficient!

  • I should mention that it’s here that I voted against Inner Stickler, for a few jokey reasons (including inviting me to partake in the game in the first place and for being the third vote on fisha) but more seriously for being oddly protective of Silver Jan.

  • Meanwhile, after I point out that I actually haven’t mentioned Day One suckitude all that often, Inner apologizes and says that no, he wasn’t making an accusation against me. “I’m not trying to build a case on you because I don’t want to lynch you yet.” Yet?

  • Dusk arrives, fisha meets her maker at the end of an unjust noose, and Nighttime begins.

  • Now Inner and I enter into a mini-feud between the two of us. Most of his subsequent posts are in response to my questions (questions I asked to the players in general, not just him). I asked why scum needs three or four days of Nighttime when they can already strategize during the several days of Daytime. He responds and then (admittedly midly) comments that I’m trying to be subtle, presumably accusing me of scummitude. This goes back and forth a few times, with his stating that he won’t be coy, he thinks I’m trying to hornswoggle the lot of you by pretending to be vanilla Town. The tension between us builds. Talk about Tracy/Hepburn chemistry! If this were really a romance novel we’d end up in a torrid clinch by the last page of the book.

  • In between he still answers my questions when he uses an arcane phrase (“poggers”) so he’s still a helpful guy. (And I mean that genuinely.) BTW, it’s the weekend now, the time when Inner said he’d be more active. As it turns out, he posts twice on Saturday, nothing on Sunday.

  • Final two posts are on Dec 5 (Monday again): once acknowledging Scathach’s vote against him with a weary “I’ve been lynched before for trying to be helpful, and yet I keep at it.” And the last one jokingly asking what “MGT” means in Trepa’s mod post about when the Day ends.

Analysis: Well, I think it kinda speaks for itself. Svejk and special ed seem to take umbrudge against Scathach’s anti-Inner vote, as fluff and helpful posts on Day One are completely natural. I actually agree with this. But looking back at Inner’s history was a bit surprsing to me. Even though I’d voted against him, I hadn’t really realized just how unsubstantive (aside from helping the noobs) as a Townie Inner was. I didn’t like his vote on fisha, and I like even less his lack of any other scumhunting aside from a few scattered posts, and then aside from fisha, all his suspicions (mild though they were) were against me.

(Of course, this last is not an argument you guys should take seriously, since you don’t know I’m town. I do not expect you to consider this particular point against him. But I have to.)

Meanwhile, didja notice anything missing in his history after Day One ended, btw? Here’s a hint: it’s the same thing I found odd about Silver Jan’s post-Dusk posts. The answer: Inner Stickler does not make any comment on fisha’s flipping Town. None. No remorse, no “oh crap, sorry about that.” Again, maybe this is normal behavior, but it’s not what I’ve ever done (in my huge long Mafia-playing history :D). I mean, I’ve felt lousy when I’ve voted for someone who turns out to be Town, and I copped to my mistake openly. Then again, as I admitted before, maybe if these two were really Scum they’d’ve definitely replied with crocodile tears, I dunno. Still it’s noteworthy to me and, fair or not, I do judge people by how I’d behave in their shoes.

Finally, to be scrupulously honest and fair: I admit that in De’endee, the last game I played w/Inner, I started to suspect him even after he claimed detective (or was it doctor?), because he was so unvocal and thus seemingly anti-Town. Even though his claim was uncontested! God, what a nimrod I was. So anyway, this tells you two things: 1) My instincts ain’t perfect, and 2) Inner appears to have a posting style that isn’t necessarily a reflection of his guilt or innocence.

Conclusion: Despite my not trusting my instincts, I have to say that he’s strongly leaning scum to me, possibly in league with Silver Jan. If he’s not scum, he’s certainly not helping our side by being so quiet except for the very first day of the game. Post and strategize more, please! [/spoiler]

vote Inner Stickler

It’s not a firm, impossible-to-change vote, so anyone who reads the above history and comes to a different conclusion, please share!

:slight_smile:

:slight_smile: :slight_smile:

:mad:

:smack:

Vote septimus

In order:
-Yeah I missed EOD, can’t defend myself from that one, it is what it is.
-Why do you think I might have rushed to get a vote in after missing EOD the Day before?
-What analysis is there to do? Speculate on whether there’s a Vig or an SK? What good does that possibly do?
-Why are you so certain Hirka is town?

As for Inner Stickler, I was reading over people’s Day 1 posts and his stuck out to me the most, so I voted.

It’s a solid case choie, sorry you had to type it up twice; if the prose suffered for it I did not notice. At any rate, I think this echoes sentiments I voiced on D1 when I called **Stickler **out on not doing a whole lot that was of substance. I’m glad you did some legwork to substantiate that hunch. The fact that I voted against scathach, who voted against stickler, should not indicate that I think your case is wrong.

Way to jump on a bandwagon there - is ‘:):)’ going to be the only justification for your vote? :dubious:

In order, as well:

  • sure, it’s possible, but to me, given the rest of the story, it adds to your scummitude
  • this too is a fair point, but I think it was all too hasty. Why not actually build a case like choie did? It’s better than not voting at all, but only barely.
  • a lot could have been said and has been said; I am not sure why I need to convince you that analysis is useful. Even simply chiming in to agree can be of use. I suggested this before and you actually agreedat the time.
  • I am implying that you are certain that he is.

I will also point out that I think it’s suspicious that you would be gone from the thread for days, but as soon as someone votes for you, you pipe in with a defence.

I’ve been steering clear a bit, but I will vote right now so not to end the Day with no vote.

Vote Special Ed

I’m not sure how to explain this. His style and tone seem…different. It’s hard to put a finger on it. Anyway, that’s my vote.

Vote Count:
Inner Stickler (2): Scathach, Choie
Guiri En Espana (1): septimus
Scathach (1): Švejk
Septimus (4): Guiri, Astral Rejection, Mental Guy, fubbleskag
Special Ed (1): Mahaloth

That’s nine votes in, eight more to be cast (FluidDruid, SilverJan, Hirka, Orcenio, Inner Stickler, Special Ed, GnarlyCharlie, PCM).

I actually find myself being more or less sympathetic towards all of these cases except for the one against Guiri - watch all of these people be clean and Guiri turn out to be scum :smack::smiley:

don’t be upset, peach. I liked your case, too, just not quite as much - there’s no way to do 1.5 smilies or I would have.

:smiley:

:smiley:

I was hoping to avoid this, but even if I stave off Lynch toDay, the same thing will happen toMorrow. So here is my role PM:

I suggest Town put my claim to the test. Insist that the Vig try to Kill me toNight. I will self-protect (as I did yesterDay and was probably going to do toDay anyway). It seems almost certain we have a Vig, or a Serial Killer pretending to be a Vig which should be just as good for this experiment.

I apologize to Town for drawing attention to myself and forcing myself to claim. With the Cop, my Power was less valuable anyway and, hopefully, as the game progresses I will guess right at some point and force Scum to waste at least one Night Kill.

As to the charges against me; there seem to be two main ones.

  1. I posted about slight hunches and pings, rather than making a full accusation or remaining silent. (Although the details vary, this is almost the same charge guiri has made against me in prior games when he was also Town. In at least one of those games he was not Town.)
    Part of the problem was that having a Power made the game, and my participation in it, seem more important than usual. I’m learning.

  2. When replying to a newbie to explain “3rd vote rule” and “Wifom”, I combined the concept into a scenario where the 3rd vote was an alleged Wifom play. This was intended to be helpful in explaining to the newbie, but only half-serious in terms of what might have been happening in the game. I make the same mistake in SDMB threads on politics, etc. Each sentence should be either serious or a joke; combining ideas into a single sentence which is then a “half-joke” is confusing.

Again, I apologize to Town, and ask for the simple test. If, as some think, I’m Scum, the Vig will kill me toNight. But in fact, I’ll prove I’m the Doc, stay alive and, I hope, eventually save a life with my Power.

Anyway, I made it safely to the 27th largest city in the world. The local Internet shop closed early and I had to brave the perils of wee-hour Sukhumwit just to post this. :dubious: If I’m on-line again at all before end of Day, it will be immediately before EOD.

No worries, Septimus. I’m willing to believe your claim for the time being.

Unvote Septimus.

At work, so further case-making will have to wait until I get home.

Unvote septimus

I am also at work, so I will vote someone else tonight.

Ooh interesting development. septimus throws a spanner into the works! Fun.

Thanks for the kind words, Svejk. I’m curious, though – if you thought Inner Stickler’s fairly unsubstantive posting was suspicious on Day 1, and agree that my case against him is relatively solid, why do you think Scathach’s argument is flimsy? I admit she didn’t create a wall of words like I did, but her rationale for voting against Inner is basically the same reason we both are getting pinged by him.

Not that I object on principle to your vote against Scathach,I’m just trying to follow your logic.

Meanwhile, fubbleskag’s posting via copy/paste of others’ arguments with only smilies in response is almost as unhelpful as the absention on Day One. C’mon, make an argument with actual text!

Though I do get a kick out of how the post looked in the thread search, which doesn’t parse smilies:

Hee! Viewed that way, it’s even more clear how unuseful this was! I don’t consider this a FOS on you, fubbleskag–just an urging that you bring some original or at least discussable points to the table.

Ooh, a spike in activity!

Vote Count:
septimus (2): Guiri, fubbleskag
Inner Stickler (2): Scathach, choie
Spec Ed (1): Mahaloth
scathach (1): Svejk
GuiriEnEspana (1): septimus

No worries, Septimus. I’m willing to believe your claim for the time being.

Unvote Septimus.

At work, so further case-making will have to wait until I get home.

It’s a fair point. I’ll have to think about that some more. Clearly I can see a case against **Stickler **on these grounds, so it’s rather the justification that Scathach offered in the post in which she votes that’s flimsy. My problem, I guess, is not so much that the justification is ‘razor thin’ as that it is ‘not elaborate’, which at that point, early on in D2 (when Scathach herself was not contributing either) makes it weird to throw out a vote like that.

Did you edit this part of your role PM?

I don’t think the experiment will tell us much, you could be a toughguy, bulletproof or have some other way to survive an attack. If you don’t survive, you could still be setting a trap for Town powers so a watcher can identify them. And if you’re telling the truth, what happens if there’s a scum roleblocker or redirector?

Anyway, short of a counter claim:

Unvote Septimus

Ahem.

Holy crap, that’s hilarious! Please tell me it was done on purpose, fubbleskag!