I still don’t understand this sentiment, especially since I reiterate that we’re all dopers here and therefore the unclaimed roles will have the intelligence to pick and choose the best plans from among the suggestions, taking into account how the exposure of a plan affects scum perceptions of it.
Besides, strategy discussions are fun. Especially if you imagine them happening in a setting-appropriate context and/or in an Eric Idle voice.
Sachertorte steps out into the middle of the town square: Er, excuse me. If any of you happen to be, er, or know any priests or disciples of Nairu, mind telling 'em not to sit up all night with Pleonast? Y’know, just on the off that he’s lying, what?
So because we are all dopers we will have the intelligence to pick and choose the plans we think are the best? Couldn’t it follow that we are smart enough to think of that plan too? I mean its not exactly a mind boggling clever and devious plan.
As well, think what you want about role discussion and it not hurting the believers. The evidence would seem to point to it does hurt the believers considering how many power roles we are down.
For those of you doubting my claim, what more can I say? I think waiting to role claim at the end of the Day is counter-productive to the Town. It’d force a snap judgement on the merits of the claim and is likely to produce a fast bandwagon on another player. Not very helpful. This way you can discuss the options without being rushed.
I’ve been sniped at for Days now. In addition to the three votes I had when I claimed, several other players had voiced suspicions of me over the past few Days. I claimed when I thought it’d be most helpful to the Town.
To those inclined to disbelieve anyway, I think you’re projecting your dislike of my posting style and/or tactics. Not much I can do about that. Try to be more objective once I’m confirmed (by death or other means).
I don’t expect to live long (not that that means much, I always last longer in Mafia games then I expect). At least my death will give better leads than Mad’s.
I’m having a hard time seeing how any of the discussion on the Oracle had any impact on Hal’s eventual death, and I still don’t buy into Diggit2’s theory on Diggit1’s demise due to the short discussion on roles–for him to be right, either every other participant in that discussion would have to be scum or the scum had to have gotten really lucky, the way I see it, to pull the Crusader out of the four participants or so on the first try.
I have to agree with Pleonast on one thing–a last day of the Day roleclaim doesn’t do as much as it should, given the low level of participation in the thread on any given day.
He might have been a bit too early for comfort, but not egregiously so given how many suspicion lists he’s on and how fast bandwagons have tended to form this game.
So we discuss a role in depth. That role is killed very soon. Yet you see no correlation? Regardless of what you do or don’t see the facts indicate the possibility of a power role giving themselves away because of the discussion and the suspicion that falls onto people who do not participate, forcing said power role to participate. Now you are willing to do the same thing once again?
Alright, I said I would give something by 5pm today. My idea didn’t really pan out, the only thing that is kind of-maybe showed was Zeriel acting scummy. This, in correlation with NAF’s posts and now this further desire to discuss helpful town power roles makes me:
vote Zeriel
My idea will be explained shortly, it will take some time to type it up and I have a number of jobs to do today.
One example of very soon that’s either luck or implies myself, Hockey, and Idle are all scum, and one example of a strategy discussion that doesn’t cause the death of either involved power role until two Days later when one outs himself on an unrelated issue.
Yeah, that correlates. The only thing the Crusader debate teaches us is that maybe it was a bad idea for Diggit to stick his nose into it, being the Crusader himself.
And I really don’t get why you would follow Pleonast’s role claim with one of your own. If you’re telling the truth, you’ve just made it a little bit easier for scum to locate power roles.
Er, well, I doubt scum is going to take Kyrie at his word (assuming Kyrie is not scum). I don’t see how saying “I’m a vanilla townie” makes anything easier for the scum. The scum already know if you’re town or not, and true plain citizens and power-roles alike are going to claim they are plain citizens. Saying you are an unremarkable citizen is not much of a role-claim, in my opinion.
I tend to agree with those who are saying that it would have been scummier for Pleonast to wait until the end. On the other hand, it’s awfully convenient that the secret role is something that someone else has mentioned already in the game. I could see scum make a false secret role claim in hopes that the actual secret role would out themselves before the Day is over. Although again, it makes more sense to wait until the last minute for scum and hope that someone makes a slip in the general chaos.
I’m going to withdraw my suspicions of Pleonast for now. Trouble is, I don’t have any other strong susicions at the moment. Time to re-comb the thread.
Why would it imply that? Discussion itself is the problem. It forces the power role to discuss. Again you can say what you want, but the facts are completely different then what you say.
Do you deny there was a lot of discussion about the Oracle?
Do you deny the Oracle is dead?
Do you deny that Hal Briston was a part of the discussion?
Do you not think it is possible for scum to re-read the thread, looking for power role clues?
No, of course not because you are not an idiot. However what you do appear to be is someone who really wants all the power roles to be talked about.
What is the role of the believers? Do you deny that it is to find scum?
What is the role of the cult in this game? Do you deny that it is to kill believers/non-believers? Who are the most dangerous believers to scum? Power roles: the oracle, the priest, the apprentice, the masons, etc. How do scum go about finding this people? By making them talk, by having role discussion that they (being the power roles) MUST take part in or risk being branded a lurker and getting the believers after them.
After going through MadTheSwine’s posts, since he is now confirmed town, he harped on Zeriel over and over again for being scum. Zeriel has been on my scum list for some time now, and frankly I am convinced. The last 24 hours of posts from Zeriel have been entirely self-absorbed defense posts or strategy posts, which I find an interesting pattern. I simply doubt that Zeriel has any intention of rooting out scum; the strong interest in rooting out power roles is even worse.
I must say I’ve suspected you Pleonast, but since your scum list is starting to align with mine I’m more open to this claim. A scum claiming the secret role is incredibly risky. I must say that what you’ve said is incredibly interesting, but my thoughts on the matter would really only benefit scum rather than Town, so I’ll keep it to myself.
That said I am still not 100% convinced of your innocence, but while I’m (naturally) skeptical of role-claims I have to say I find your post particularly compelling. I would be very curious to see who keeps their vote on you. Very curious indeed.
You mean Queuing, I think? In any case, I have to disagree. If a power role were to claim that they were vanilla, and then later claim a different role to avoid a dunk, I think we’d all be disinclined to believe the second claim. Everyone claims townie, but not everyone should claim vanilla townie. And everyone who does claim vanilla townie makes it easier to identify those who cannot make that claim.
I’m always skeptical of someone who claims vanilla townie to begin with. A vanilla townie has no real reason to (unless they’re completely on the chopping block, perhaps). Scum basically are making an unverifiable role claim. And it’s a terrible thing for a power role to say. “Look at me! Look at me! I’m nobody special!”
Well no one should take anybody at their word. However if you read the post someone did ask if I was the apprentice, most likely jokingly. My answer was meant to be taken the same way. Really this is very weak IMO.
I would not be disinclined to believe someone who role-claimed after claiming vanilla. What else are power-roles supposed to do? And why would scum take at face value anyone making a vanilla claim? The idea that vanilla townie claims make it easier to expose the power roles assumes that the power roles would never claim vanilla in order to deflect suspicion, and that scum would believe everyone who did make vanilla claims. I daresay both are not true.
I’m not sure if the number of dead power roles supports your claim. We started with 6 power roles, a secret role, and some number of monks. With 9 dead how many power roles would be hit at random?
Really bad math, but a quick calculation: assume 3 monks (conservative estimate)
that’s 9 power roles against 30 players with 9 dead:
[badmath] 9*(9/30) = 81/30 = 2.7 [/badmath]
So 3 dead power roles seems to me to be within expectations.
