Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

The Game Room
2221

[QUOTE=Pleonast]
I have some suspicion for Idle Thoughts. Again, I ask for someone else do the honor of reviewing his posts?

[/QUOTE]

Well, I did myself a bit farther back but I’m guessing you want a second opinion other than that, right? Hahaha.

[QUOTE=Pleonast]
Still have two days left in this Day, but it’s better to do this earlier rather than later.

I am a Townie, a Believer, and the one and only Martyr. The secret role. I win or lose exactly as the other Believers do.

Since the secret role is an unknown entity to both Town and Cult, there’s little more I can do at this point, other than state openly I am on the Town’s side. I have several powers, but none are especially helpful at this moment in confirming my claim. There’s no advantage to the Town for me to reveal my powers openly. Better to leave the Cult speculating. I will not discuss my powers any further.

Why claim now? Because I’m the vote leader and I want everyone to have plenty of time to think about who to vote for. Last minute claims don’t really help the Town. And meta-gamingly, I hope to respark interest with some of quieter players.
[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmm…why do I get a sense that you may be lying and making up this role?
Why role claim now? I know you just said the reasons in this quote but really, you seem to be doing exactly what zuma did in mafia IV. And while I’m a huge advocator of not bringing up past games to influence decisions or votes or suspicion in this game, for one, I already had huge suspicion against you and for two, everything is the same as that was (in which I also expressed my hesitantcy to believe). You are in no danger of being killed off. You DO have two, which happens to be the MOST votes so far but color me confused why you’d pull this now. :confused: There are a few with only one vote and just one other from anyone who has yet to vote would tie it up. Plus there’s still fairly enough days left for Day.

I dunno…just still feeling overly cautious.

However, that being said…

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
Weeee! A roleclaim. At least this will make things more interesting.

And Wha? Why roleclaim now?
[/QUOTE]

Snipped some.

Um..heh, it sounds like you’re contradicting yourself here with these sentences. You’re happy at first but then you question it? :confused:

Anyway, I have no freaking idea what to do now. Not that that’s usually anything new. It’d be nice if we knew there was only one secret role (the rules say “there will be a secret role” singular), but with BM’s refusal to say otherwise, it really paints a hard picture. As others have said, there’s no real way to find out if Pleonast is making it up or not…although gut says that he’s making it up.

I’m holding my vote for now. I have to first stop my head from hurting, and then I need to try to sort through this mess again.

2222

Okay, with only a couple of exceptions, I received an overwhelming preference to a sub, so Pygmy Rugger is going to be subbing for Nava. He said it would take him a full day to catch up, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it took longer. I will post an updated player list presently.

2223

Sorry, my mistake. If **MHaye[/b ]'s tally’s are correct, you have three, Pleonast.

2224

Alive
2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
5 Hockey Monkey
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
10 Malacandra
12 Kyrie Eleison
14 Pleonast
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Pygmy Rugger
18 amrussell
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 zuma [Ver. 2]
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
30 Captain Klutz

Dead
11 Mtgman - Non-Believer - Day One
4 zuma [Ver. 1] - Citizen - Night One
1 Kat - Cultist - Day Two
6 storyteller0910 - Monk - Night Two
15 DiggitCamara [Ver. 1] - Crusader - Night Two
20 Scuba_Ben - Citizen - Day Three
13 Hal Briston - Oracle - Night Three
29 MadTheSwine - Citizen - Day Four
9 SnakesCatLady - Citizen - Night Four

Substitutions
** Kyrie Eleison **(Repl. ** Clockwork Jackal **)
** Nava **(Repl. ** Captain Carrot **)
** Kat **(Repl. ** ArizonaTeach **)
** DiggitCamara [Ver. 2] **(Repl. ** Autolycus **)
** Zuma [Ver. 2] **(Repl. ** MonkeyMensch **)
** amrussell **(Repl. ** Pasta **)
** Pygmy Rugger **(Repl. ** Nava **)

2225

I don’t buy Pleonast’s role claim. He’s not in immediate danger of dying. He’s only ahead by one vote at this time (I think…), and there’s still over two days until the end of the Day… It don’t make sense!

I’m not changing my vote.

–FCOD

2226

A total of 10 out of 21 votes have been cast. The Day will end in about 50 hours.
** Pleonast ** (3) - Idle Thoughts, FlyingCowOfDoom, amrussell
** DiggitCamara ** (2) - Captain Klutz, Zeriel
** Malacandra ** (2) - Pleonast, zuma
** Zeriel ** (2) - NAF1138, DiggitCamara
** Pygmy Rugger ** (1) - Queuing

2227

Hey guys, I made it! I’ll be out of town tonight, but I don’t see any reason why I won’t be caught up by this time tomorrow (my job and I have a love/hate relationship. I hate it, but it allows me to do things like this!).

I see Queuing already has a vote for me… sigh I don’t know what it is with me and that guy. :stuck_out_tongue:

2228

[QUOTE=FlyingCowOfDoom]
I don’t buy Pleonast’s role claim. He’s not in immediate danger of dying. He’s only ahead by one vote at this time (I think…), and there’s still over two days until the end of the Day… It don’t make sense!

I’m not changing my vote.

–FCOD
[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t really make sense to me, either, but I’m not sure how this move would benefit Pleonast if he’s scum. I may be missing something, but it seems to me that any sensible scum would sit tight, wait to see if he’s actually in danger of being dunked, and then float the fake role-claim when there’s no longer enough time to talk it over. Claiming this early in the Day calls attention to the player and puts him under additional scrutiny.

Pretty much the only way this role-claim makes sense to me is if Pleonast really is the Martyr and going public at this point in the game somehow improves the Martyr’s ability to use his powers. (Pleonast mentioned “several powers,” so I’m assuming BM has added a few twists to the role that aren’t mentioned on sachertorte’s link.) Granted, I haven’t the foggiest idea how the role-claim would help, but I thought I’d throw the possibility out there since I can’t think of any other scenarios that make sense.

2229

Another thought: If the Martyr does more or less what it says on the site sachertorte linked to, a Martyr who has role-claimed is pretty much useless – the scum are going to target him ASAP, and if I’m reading things correctly, he can’t protect himself. So either a) Pleonast has a death wish (I think this is probably true regardless of whether he’s town or scum); or b) the role has some additional permutations we don’t know about (which may, of course, include having a death wish).

2230

Wow, I’m not sure what to make of **Pleonast’s ** claim. It seems way way too early…he’s not in any danger at the moment…I’m baffled. My first impression is that it is a false claim. I don’t know what that role entails, but the way he worded that he wasn’t going to reveal anything about his powers…well…sounds like a threat to the scum not to night kill him, which I read as a cover for a false claiming scum that doesn’t get night killed. Did that make sense? What I mean is that when he comes up alive morning after morning and we are all wondering why the scum haven’t killed him he can say that he warned them about his powers. Bah, I don’t know if that made it any clearer. Anyway, his roleclaim has done nothing but further my suspicions about him.

Vote Pleonast

[/game] I hope any further subbing we have to do is kept to a minimum, and if we do have to that they are all as good at doing analysis as amrussell. Just wanted to take a moment to give a Kudo. [game]

2231

Damn crazy stuff. Well first things first:

unvote Pygmy Rugger mostly cause I don’t want him to blow me up. I am against this sub though. Its getting very damn confusing.

Pleonast Role claim: I don’t really get why he would have done it this early, but it fits in his game style. The one thing that I can say about Pleonast is that he is very consistent in his style. He likes to vote early and often. He role claims to damn early (IMO he did so in M2 as well). As to the verifiability of the role claim; what, besides masons, can be verified? Ultimately we have to choose to believe or not to believe the role claim. IMO we should believe it. Once it gets to the end game then we can take a look at these role claims a little harder. As far as a secret role, assuming sachertorte’s link is accurate, it seems pretty damn useless to me.

I am for believing the role claims. That means HM and Pleonast are off my list of voteables. I am placing sach here as well; IMO he was a crumb and I thought he was town beforehand anyway.

Where does that leave us?

I have a sneaking suspicion that Zeriel and NAF are both believers of a sort. I think one might be a non-believer, and I think that person is Zeriel, but that is neither here nor there. All gut though. Which brings my “don’t think I want to vote for you” up to 6 (inc myself). Leaving 15 players. Pygmy Rugger is safe for the Day, so I am now down to 14.

1 in 14 odds stink. I know people hate this, but I have an idea, and I will commence my research. I will present this by tomorrow 5pm EDT. (about 18.5 hours from now)

2232

Re: Pleonast’s role claim

Another unverifiable, untestable claim. In Pleonast’s favour is that the claim is made when not under real pressure, and with lots of time in the Day remaining. The down side is that the claim can’t be tested.

For the moment I will believe the claim, at least until another secret role turns up.
Blaster Master has said that there may be more than one of each role, but it would be game breaking to not only have a secret role but to also have an unknown number of them. I will therefore assume that there is only one player with the secret role.

I am also assuming that there is only one Alchemist, which is why I am going to believe Hockey Monkey’s claim until another Alchemist shows up. I am surprised that Hockey Monkey, of all people, should disbelieve Pleonast’s claim. Hockey Monkey, why is Pleonast’s claim less believable than yours?

And a question to Pleonast: who have you been protecting each night?

2233

Just because I know my claim to be true, does that mean I have to believe all other claims? I normally do play with that assumption, but in this case, the whole thing rings false. If I don’t believe it, I want to say I don’t believe it. It doesn’t matter to me one iota that I claimed as well, I’m gonna call it as I see it. There was no reason for him to claim now. He only had 2 or 3 votes and there are several people with votes, and lots of people who have not voted yet. I see no reason for this role claim right now other than it being a scum diversion tactic.

2234

[QUOTE=zuma]
Even interpreting it that way, you’ve essentially said that the correct thing for the Oracle to do is to investigate the alleged alchemist, hence at the least it is a veiled suggestion that the apprentice does the same.

In any event, vote: Malacandra
[/QUOTE]

Hey, way to ignore the rest of my post - the part where I acknowledged that I’d been mistaken about thinking it was useful to investigate the Alchemist, but pointed out that it wasn’t a mistake the Oracle or Apprentice was likely to make - because, you know, the people who actually have investigatory roles are likely to have paid more attention as to whom they can and can’t get useful results about.

2235

[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine]
Another thought: If the Martyr does more or less what it says on the site sachertorte linked to, a Martyr who has role-claimed is pretty much useless – the scum are going to target him ASAP, and if I’m reading things correctly, he can’t protect himself.
[/QUOTE]

I suppose technically he can. That means if the Martyr is night-killed, it will be the Martyr who dies instead of the Martyr. Possibly not the best use of his power. :slight_smile:

Though I personally find Pleonast’s claim smelling fishier than a Brixham trawler, if we do buy this would it make sense for the Priest or Disciple to protect him toNight? Not, of course, that either of them should make any statement on the subject; the Martyr isn’t as valuable as all that.

2236

[QUOTE=Queuing]
I have a sneaking suspicion that Zeriel and NAF are both believers of a sort. I think one might be a non-believer, and I think that person is Zeriel, but that is neither here nor there.
[/QUOTE]

I’m assuming that this is not supposed to be a thinly veiled investigator breadcrumb, because it would be so…thinly veiled. :smiley: So I’m curious as to how (and why) you’d attempt to determine non-believer vs believer at this point in the game?

2237

[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]
I’m assuming that this is not supposed to be a thinly veiled investigator breadcrumb, because it would be so…thinly veiled. :smiley: So I’m curious as to how (and why) you’d attempt to determine non-believer vs believer at this point in the game?
[/QUOTE]

It isn’t. I am just an ordinary citizen. As stated its pure gut, no basis at all. Zeriel is striking me as a little off, but not scum off. NAF has always struck me as a believer. Note that my gut is a fickle thing and may change at any time.

2238

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
Um..heh, it sounds like you’re contradicting yourself here with these sentences. You’re happy at first but then you question it? :confused:
[/QUOTE]

Idle Thoughts, the first sentiment (‘Weeee! roleclaim!’) is a comment about playing the game. In other words, I found the game kind of dragging and not too interesting at the time, a role-claim was nice in the sense that it shakes things up (from a playing standpoint). The second statement (‘Wha?’), is an in-game assessment of the situation acknowledging that I can’t make sense of the roleclaim at this time.

So I am *amused *by the roleclaim and *confused *by the timing of the roleclaim.
Does that make more sense?

[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Though I personally find Pleonast’s claim smelling fishier than a Brixham trawler, if we do buy this would it make sense for the Priest or Disciple to protect him toNight? Not, of course, that either of them should make any statement on the subject; the Martyr isn’t as valuable as all that.
[/QUOTE]

I say no.

  1. Based on what little information we have, the martyr role seems very weak, and with a dead Oracle, its use is extremely limited. Not worth the risk; I’d rather have a Priest than a Martyr. Although the linked website may not actually be the role we’re dealing with.
  2. If I were going to write a secret role named ‘martyr’ I can see myself making the role operate in a few ways: a) the martyr must martyr himself (suicide) b) the martyr must get killed by the cult. We can rule out c) martyr gets dunked by town, since the martyr wouldn’t roleclaim in this case. Either way, protecting the martyr in this theoretical case doesn’t make sense.
  3. We don’t know if Pleonast is lying.
2239

Not meant as a “picking on you” sort of thing Sachertorte, but can we please not discuss what roles that haven’t claimed should do? Obviously they are playing well if they haven’t been forced to claim, so lets just leave well enough alone shall we?

2240

[QUOTE=sachertorte]

I say no.

  1. Based on what little information we have, the martyr role seems very weak, and with a dead Oracle, its use is extremely limited. Not worth the risk; I’d rather have a Priest than a Martyr. Although the linked website may not actually be the role we’re dealing with.
    [/QUOTE]

All true, of course. But the choice isn’t between the Priest and the Martyr so much as between the scum having a good choice of offing the Martyr or a random chance of hitting the Priest. I presume you’re figuring that the Priest will protect himself rather than anyone else, if he’s not covering the Martyr?

But as you say, the Martyr is very weak, even if **Pleonast ** is on the level; worth having in the end-game, maybe, but not to try too assiduously to keep alive. And meanwhile, of course, the Martyr can save us a life very well by getting night-killed. :slight_smile: