Well, I was going to say nothing much further to add. I’ll respond to amrussell’s accusations in a moment, but first I’ll say what I was going to.
I have strong suspicions against Malacandra and Zeriel. I’ll switch my vote to Z if I’m alone in voting for Mal towards the end of the Day. I have some suspicion for Idle Thoughts. Again, I ask for someone else do the honor of reviewing his posts?
Queuing, and others considering voting for Nava–it’s a cop-out to vote for her. It’s better that we ask for a mod-kill. We gain nothing from her death.
I’ve already explained my voting on Day 1–I voted for who I thought was scummiest at any given point of time, and then switched my vote to the second scummiest when it was clear no one was taking my lead. Nothing further to say about that.
I suspected Mtgman because he was the one making the argument about sham tussles while engaging in a tussle himself. That bit of hypocrisy bothered me.
I’m not sure why you’re accusing me of self preservation when I’ve been continually called suspicious by multiple players. And I’ve been trying to rebut what they’ve said. Many other players are avoiding all scrutiny.
Compare my behavior to Malacandra, who’s ignored or brushed off my accusations and has hardly posted. I’ve added little “content” regarding Mal since he hasn’t done much lately. I’ve calling attention to him consistently. He’s the one I find most scummy, why should I drop it because he’s laying low?
I’m not convinced that we should have low participation players modkilled even now. The only gain is that we reduce the number of players more quickly. I think modkill actions should be reserved for breaches of the game rules.
**Nava[/b[ has posted so little that none of us have a handle on her alignment. However, I think voting for a dunking now is essentially another random vote.
NAF,
You list **zumav1 **(confirmed town) as a reason for suspecting **Zeriel **remarkably different reaction to being on your list. I think this thinking is flawed. Different people will react differently. I would encourage you to look at posts 359 and 403, which show **SnakesCatLady **(confirmed town) taking my pointing out her lack of content, well… badly. For no good reason SnakesCatLady thinks I’m pissed at her (which I still don’t understand). I thought this was very scummy of SnakesCatLady, but I was wrong.
Basically, I agree with you that Zeriel overreacted, **but **I don’t agree with you that his overreaction constitutes scumminess.
Also, I have to take responsibility for causing Zeriel to revisit NAF (post 1425). I think if I had left NAF alone, Zeriel would have moved onto other things. But the scum status of ArizonaTeach and his being missing from your list of ‘lurkers/invisibles’ is suspicious (to me), which encouraged Zeriel (I think). I know you’ve given an explanation, but the existence of an alternative possibility does not preclude the possibility that your being scum is the reason for ArizonaTeach’s missing place on your list.
The more Zeriel and NAF argue, the more I think town vs town (possibly scum v scum, but I’m not there yet). They are practically rabid; not very subtle at all. I’d encourage Zeriel to look at the argument from NAF’s point of view, and vice versa. I think you are both reading things to support your thesis rather than reading things to determine the truth.
I’m not too keen on a mod-kill of **Nava **only. I think if there’s to be mod-killing, Blaster Master should look at the list of players and knock out 3 for balance. Preferably low post count people, but I’d be willing to volunteer for my side just to get things back on track.
Although, if Blaster Master can get a sub like amrussel, that would be great. Nava is a blank page anyway and amrussel is posting quite nicely.
Still have two days left in this Day, but it’s better to do this earlier rather than later.
I am a Townie, a Believer, and the one and only Martyr. The secret role. I win or lose exactly as the other Believers do.
Since the secret role is an unknown entity to both Town and Cult, there’s little more I can do at this point, other than state openly I am on the Town’s side. I have several powers, but none are especially helpful at this moment in confirming my claim. There’s no advantage to the Town for me to reveal my powers openly. Better to leave the Cult speculating. I will not discuss my powers any further.
Why claim now? Because I’m the vote leader and I want everyone to have plenty of time to think about who to vote for. Last minute claims don’t really help the Town. And meta-gamingly, I hope to respark interest with some of quieter players.
I need to seriously rethink my posting style, because clearly my thoughts aren’t comming across well.
The way zuma reacted is one of several things I was attempting to illustrate in that post. The main thrust was really that Zeriel twists facts to meet his own ends.
And Zeriel, I know that the list isn’t the main reason you find me scummy anymore. It was just the best example of the above point I could find. And shows off some other scummy behavior as well.
BUT sach is right. I am not taking my vote off you Z, but I will disengage…for now. I still think you are scummy but at this point it is in the hands of the rest of the town. I will hold further arguments against you 'till tomorrow and start looking for the other scum.
[out of game] Also on a personal note ,Zeriel, sach mentioned that we are sounding rabid and I do want you to know that my arguments against you are all in game stuff. I have seen arguments that started in these games turn into real grudges and I don’t want that to happen. So, nothing personal, I just think you are scum .[/out of game]
Weeee! A roleclaim. At least this will make things more interesting.
And Wha? Why roleclaim now? Can someone do a vote count? Is Pleonast really in that much danger already? Color me confused.
Didn’t I accuse **MadTheSwine **of being a martyr secret role? The fact that I used the term martyr secret role makes me want to proceed with caution. It will be very difficult to confirm this claim.
Furthermore, roleclaiming Martyr doesn’t sound very Martyr-like. Shouldn’t you just die quietly to be a martyr?
I probably should have just thought this through more thoroughly before posting, but it’s the most exciting thing to happen this Day.
I think the only thing that could conceivably be done is if Pleonast is lying and is not the secret role, the real secret role holder is the only one to know this and could counter claim. I don’t think a counterclaim would be good; but depending on the role, who knows? Hopefully, if Pleonast is lying the real secret role can do bad things to Pleonast at night.
If Pleonast is telling the truth, I don’t think there is anything we can do. I think I will believe Pleonast until we end up with a dead player holding the secret role. Pleonast, go stand over there next to Hockey Monkey.
I started writing this post much earlier today, but it got interrupted by work.
I am going to be branching out in some new directions today, but I can’t guarantee where I’ll end up when the analysis is done. I am still suspicious of Hockey Monkey, including lighter posting volumes of late, as if some of the scrutiny she has been getting made her decide to try and lay low more often.
I voted where my strongest suspicions lay yesterDay, regardless of whether or not my choice was a popular one. No one but Mad got anywhere near the dunking pool, ironically for some reasons that were very similar to “have him dunked only to see if he’s what he says he is”.
I didn’t read him as in much danger yet - but he is (as he said) in the lead in votes.
My current tally is :-[ul][li]Pleonast : 3[/li][li]Zeriel : 2[/li][li]DiggitCamara[sub]2[/sub] : 1[/li][li]Malacandra : 1[/li][li]NAF1138 : 1[/li][li]Nava : 1[/ul]I am not sure whether his action will achieve his stated goal. I still intend to review his posting history for myself, although the actual work looks to have been done by amrussell.[/li]
The only two reasonable verification methods are counterclaim and testing. However, as Fretful just pointed out, BM explicitly refused to rule out multiple secret roles - even secret Martyrs. I thought I had a link, but I don’t. It was sometime Yesterday (or maybe Today). That rules iout a successful counterclaim.
The other is testing the claim against previous actions. This isn’t very useful as a martyr role is probably one-shot (at least, the Martyr can only successfully protect once).
I came in now only to say that I’ll be away all of tomorrow (a work “team-building” event followed by team drinking) but will check in on my Friday morning. Of course, now I see that there’s been an Event, but that’ll just give me something to think about while I’m buggering about with ropes tomorrow. I’ll be back in plenty of time to reconsider my vote.
Okay, seeing the discussion about Nava, I’ll leave the decision up to you all.
Pygmy Rugger, who was an active player in M2, has volunteered to take Nava’s spot. I think, after he’s caught up, that he will actively participate and fill the role. However, because some of you feel it could be an unfair advantage to essentially be coming into the game with a clean slate this late in the game, if enough of you would prefer a mod-kill, I will do that instead.
If mod-kill is chosen, here is how I will carry it out. It will be in addition to whatever the town chooses to kill today and will occur as a Day kill simultaneously with the dunking. If it is a role that has a special action upon death (such as the Avatar or potentially a secret role) it will be carried out at random across the entire town versus only those who voted for the role. If it is a role that is activated upon death (such as the Psychopath or potentially a secret role), I will reassign that role at random to a different elligible player at random (ie, if it is the Psychopath, the death will show as Non-Believer and a different Non-Believer, if there remain any, will become the Psychopath). If it is any other role with or without a Night action (Priest, Disciple, Apprentice, Alchemist, Cultist, Prophet, Believer, Non-Believer, or potentially a secret role), I will take not additional action.
My preference is to substitute, because even though this role has had little tells one way or the other, I still think it is less disruptive this way. Those who feel strongly one way or the other, who have not already PMed me, please do so.
Nice. So Pleonast claims a role that may or may not exist in the game, can’t be verified, can be falsified only by a counterclaim from someone who has been told that he is the sole secret role, but is too useful to us for us to waste his one-shot protection if, say, the Priest has to out himself?
I wonder when I can vote Pleonast without it being taken as OMGUS or a scummy attempt to save my own neck?
Even interpreting it that way, you’ve essentially said that the correct thing for the Oracle to do is to investigate the alleged alchemist, hence at the least it is a veiled suggestion that the apprentice does the same.
First, sach is probably right–I might be nitpicking NAF, not reading him… I’m going to step back to one of my lesser suspicions while I think about it. unvote NAF1138
Secondly, whee roleclaim that can’t be confirmed (Again!). I don’t know that I’d think it probable that the typical Martyr is what this one is. Any other secret roles should use their best judgement. On preview, yeah, I’ll buy it until I see some evidence otherwise.
Third, I like having a vote on someone at all times. That way, I’m accountable. My second suspicion after NAF therefore gets the nod: vote DiggitCamara[sub]2[/sub], for reasons stated previously, summed up as fixation on previous role, persistent attempts to paint me as scummier than I am with lies, and general gut feeling.
Fourth, meta–BM, I’d be willing to accept a sub who wasn’t a returning deader, especially in Nava’s case.
Fifth, more meta–no worries, NAF. It’s a game. Emotions are some of the game pieces. If you’re scum, you’re being damn canny about it. =P
.[/out of game]