(color removed)
That’s fine. You’re not the first, and I doubt you will be the last. Do you want me to respond? Because I will, but I don’t think there really is anything more to say on the matter. I’ve been avoiding casting suspicion on people who vote for me, because my ideas have invitied it many times. The problem I have with this vote is MonkeyMensch says:
Which implies to me that you haven’t read what I have to say, yet are willing to vote for me anyway. Suspicous? Lazy? I’m not sure. At the very least I suggest you read post #633
(oops, sorry I had this ready to go a while ago but didn’t post it. Also, fluiddruid, please read).
I confess I overlooked that the doctor-type roles were able to protect from recruitment as well as night-kills. That wasn’t the case in the last game (M3) that featured recruitment.
Keywords: metagame, group strategy, role analysis Mgtman and Sachertorte,
I do find your analyses interesting, but I feel that you are playing a different game to the rest of us. Finding clever ways of coordinating various roles is the sort of thing that belongs in a separate discussion.
Mgtman (#649) posted a suggested method of gaining a town win. Storyteller pointed out various problems with it, but even if it did guarantee victory I still wouldn’t want to do it, as it’s no fun, it’s just mechanically following a prescribed process. Of course, you regard that process as the solution, problem solved.
That sort of analysis doesn’t need to be done within the game. In fact, it doesn’t even need to be a real game at all. Imagine someone posed a puzzle like “Here are some roles and rules. Devise a strategy that allows A to find B and kill C without alerting D”. Now this could have some truly ingenious solutions, and I would actually be interested in it, but it’s a different sort of game than what everyone else is playing. Mafia is about people, not roles. I’m not very good at it myself (I read through all the games on this board and found that I was really bad at spotting scum) but I think I’m getting better.
I am not going to vote for either of you as I don’t find your analyses scummy. I’ll just (politely) ask you to stop the role analysis and start the people analysis.
I’ll just add that yes, I know that Mgtman was not actually advocating that we follow his suggestion, he was just putting it forward as an example of how the town could coordinate, but my point stands.
Actually, Zeriel, I want to follow up on that. I find it a bit odd that you credit the observation that the Apprentice’s revelation and subsequent recruitment endanger the Oracle to storyteller, and then ding me for my earlier post noting and asking about how to deal with the problem. I’m not sure whether it’s suspicious, but it does strike me as strange.
[QUOTE=Captain Klutz]
For those who are filtering posts:
Keywords: metagame, group strategy, role analysis
[QUOTE]
Captain, may I point out that you just filtered your own post. And consequently this one because I quoted it. So you aren’t reading this.
Just my way of saying you are going to be missing a great deal of the information you need if you filter the posts. Read everything. (Or at least skim it if it’s not a conversation you are interested in.)
No, you didn’t (Post 670 ) You said you got caught up in the discussion. You did not say you had supported the plan when you voted for DiggitCamara.
I don’t think we’re going to see eye to eye on this.
I don’t accuse you for backing DiggitCamara’s idea. I *don’t mind *that DiggitCamara was thinking along those lines. I accuse **Queuing **because of inconsistency:
Telling me I shouldn’t expect those that discussed plan#2 to be held accountable. Then holding DiggitCamara accountable for plan#2.
Furthermore Queuing supported DiggitCamara’s plan originally. How can Queuing of all people use a plan he supported as reason to vote for DiggitCamara? How is this logical? If Queuing himself looked at the plan and thought, ‘yeah, that doesn’t suck,’ how can he blame DiggitCamara for thinking it was a viable plan too? How can Queuing excuse his own blind spot and at the same time hold DiggitCamara accountable for the same mistake? Inconsistent!
Ok, much going on the past 48 hours, so I’m picking away when I can. A few notes on things I’m picked up:
Hockey Monkey’s grilling of Scuba Ben in Post #675 and Post #701. While the entire bit was a misunderstanding, the bottom line is that Hockey Monkey thought Scuba Ben had knowledge of the secret role, and was trying to get it out of him. If Scuba Benwas this “secret attack role” (and assuming it was a pro-town role), then trying to unmask him was a very scummy act. FOS on Hockey Monkey
Autolycus, I hereby publicly apologize for killing you in M4 simply for staying in character. You do all the…errr…whatever it is you do that you like, I’m cool with it. I would, however, suggest stepping up the content quotient.
I’m a little puzzled as to people’s reaction to zuma’s shrugging off of Malacandra vote (#546 and #547). I have my own issues with zuma (quoth the Kenobi, “Who is more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?”), but I don’t see how not getting riled up over a single vote on Day One is a big deal.
More to come as my workday begins and I can concentrate on important things…like this, for example.
Oh USCDiver, you’re here.
This morning I was thinking about the game, and I realized I owe you an apology. I hurt your feelings yesterday, and while I didn’t intend to, it’s clear that I did. I’m sorry.
I should have apologized right away. In my defense, your ‘numbskull’ comment had me in an off mindset. Sorry.
I gave my reasons for voting for you, and they’re valid, not irritation. You are one suspicious guy. I also never voted for you for lack of particpation in the other games, so how is this a grudge on my part?
I assume you noticed not only the number of people who have been annoyed with your lack of participation, but also the ones who have since said (paraphrasing), please post content and not fluff? And it seems a LOT of people are contributing nicely on Day One.
Lust to take you out? I certainly gave more reason and have more evidence than your vote did. I also didn’t vote for you at all until I saw you were going to to the SAME THING THAT WAS ANTI-TOWN IN THE OTHER GAMES. Once I saw that it was the same pattern, you darn well better believe I’ll be suspicious of it.
However, I do thank you for being more substantial; that’s all I wanted, even if it does make you feel uneasy with me, at least now we’re getting some sort of helpful participation from you.
I would hardly call that a grilling. I wanted to know if I missed something. He said he never said it, and I quoted his post for him. He explained. shrug
Why did you think I thought Scuba was the secret role and I was “unmasking” him? Is that what you thought when you read his post? I thought, “Hey maybe I missed something in the rules.” There are a lot of nuances in the roles, and I’ve missed key components already that have been clarified.
The Avatar is scum. Killing a confirmed scum (in fact, the only confirmable scum) is good for the town.
I agree that the presence of the Avatar tempers the scums votes, but that needs to be balanced against the need to eliminate all the scum.
In light of the also mentioned recruitment possibilities (i.e. recruiting the Apprentice to learn the identity of the Oracle) we have the following possibilies should the Apprentice find the Avatar:
Role claim and identifiy the Avatar. We then dunk the Apprentice (to guarantee against recruitment as well as confirming the role claim). Then the Crusader can safely take out the Avatar. (Not sure what to do if the Crusader is gone)
Keep quiet and… what? Do you breadcrumb (big crumbs)? Do you try to steer toward an Avatar dunk? Or what?
Note that dunking the Avatar is more likely to result in a town death than a scum death. The Avatar tempers scum voting for scum, but it is a bigger danger for the town.
Okay, so now I don’t know what to do. If the answer is that the Apprentice should keep quiet and do nothing with the knowledge then the Apprentice is pretty well completely useless. In fact, worse that useless, as recruiting the Apprentice costs us the Oracle.
Fair enough…I can see that being the case. My thought was that if you thought someone slipped and may have revealed themselves as the Secret Role, then the best move would be not to call attention to it.
