So, did Mal make anyone else feel stupid because they had to look that reference up, or is it just me? 
Aha! Admitting to being a baby-eating Carthaginian Cultist, eh? 
Hey, nothing personal, I’m only thinking you’re most likely to be scum. And our Oracle was at least suspicious of you, too, so I’m not completely nonsensical.
Substitution is bad; missing player is bad. Both choices are bad. Is anyone else really frustrated with the lack of participation by certain players? USCDiver isn’t the only one, but at least he’s giving notice. Quite frankly, disappearing for a week won’t really impact USCDiver’s post count from what was there before. He may even avoid being dead last in posting for the day despite being away.
Because you’re the one who wanted information. I can’t magically know that there’s an issue you wish to discuss. You even said yourself that your vote is not well founded.
Look, NAF asked me for something that I couldn’t respond to at the end of Day 2. At the beginning of Day 3 he reminded me of the request, and he got a reply. Simple right?
:eek: Wow, I feel special now; was I really that suspicious on day one? But here’s the problem, there’s no way to differentiate between breadcrumb and normal gameplay, especially with only two nights of investigation to go on.
No. I just found it annoying. Malacrandra is barely even playing the game – a whopping 4 posts during Day 3.
Player - number of Day 3 posts - voted for…
DiggitCamarav2 7 Zeriel
Captain Klutz 16 Scuba_Ben
Cookies 6 Hockey Monkey
fluiddruid 7 Hockey Monkey
FlyingCowOfDoom 3 Pleonast
Fretful Porpentine 7 Scuba_Ben
Hal Briston 15 MadTheSwine
HazelNutCoffee 16 Pleonast
Hockey Monkey 23 Scuba_Ben
Idle Thoughts 16 Pleonast
Kyrie (CJ) 13 MadTheSwine
MadTheSwine 9 Scuba_Ben
Malacandra 4 NONE
MHaye 16 NONE
zuma (Monkey Mensch) 0 NONE
NAF 23 Zeriel
Nava 3 NONE
Pasta 4 NONE
Pleonast 5 Malacandra
Queuing 24 Scuba_Ben
sachertorte 18 Scuba_Ben
Scuba_Ben 7 Queuing
SnakesCatLady 15 Captain Klutz
USCDiver 9 NONE
Zeriel 41 Hockey Monkey
[game off/] Grandpa’s pic is up. 
[/game on]
Sorry. You must’ve not had the chalk thrown at you in Classics as often as I did. Besides, I’m sure Google gave you the answer in a millisecond.
And sorry to the room for my meagre post count during Day Three, but if more people shut up when they had nothing to say, this thread would still be within manageable proportions.
Alright, so just me it is. :o
I have been looking back over day 2 and don’t feel like I can really know what Hal was thinking, so I am going to take his vote as a slight mark against **Mad ** and a slight vote in favor of sach. Not enough to make me make a decision about either of them on it’s own, but I will take it into account if cases are presented against them.
That being said, I would find the case against Mad more compelling if it wasn’t for the frenzied dog pile of votes at the start of the day. So I am holdin off judgment on that one until later in the day.
So for now zerial is still my top suspect.
It did, but don’t think that finding it so quickly helped my pride any. I am going to blame the American public education system.
And as a reminder, even in the middle of the game, ignorace can be fought!
You say that zuma has assuaged the suspicions you had for Monkey Mensch. MM had mostly flown under my radar, so I didn’t really have any suspicions, but what about this post was sufficent to remove all suspicions?
zuma didn’t vote Day 3, and I don’t really see how one post can remove all suspicions.
I’m sorry if this seems like a rather pointless post, but for some reason it bothered me. It just seemed odd to have that line added at the end of a post.
My sentiments exactly. The sudden pile of votes has me suddenly wary about this whole Mad thing, despite the fact I have been suspicious of him since the beginning. I just got back from work, so I’ll have a look at his posts and then post something more definitive tonight.
It ain’t an excuse, toots.
I work…my job calls… I have to go.Granted it is unusual that I have to go for more than a day at a time,had I known work was gonna be like that the last few weeks, I would not have played,so I am sorry to everyone for that.But since it did,I have tried to partipate as best I could…which includes making a last minute vote.Now I am wishing I hadn’t,but somehow I don’t think it woulda mattered much
For those of you that have played with me before…ya gotta figure, even with my limited play, I would not make such a shitty scum player.
I also wanna reiterate post 355 in which scum Az tries to pit me and **story ** each other.That post alone should switch a few of your minds.
For those interested in Mad the Swine’s posing history, I went all the way back to the beginning when I was doing the work-ups on the players who didn’t vote.
Day One
Mad the Swine
#198 - fluff (response to Hockey Monkey’s poo-flinging comment.
#209 - fluff (response to NAF1138’s POS of him for his actions in a previous game.
#232 - discussion of scum tells.
#244 - more discussion of scum tells, vote Clockwork Jackal.
#257 - more discussion of scum tells.
#266 - fluff - asks Idle Thoughts if he has been lurking.
#271 - acknowledges that CJ had not put a “revenge vote” on him, but a “revenge FOS’” and that he wll let his vote stand.
#320 - response to storyteller concerning his vote for CJ.
Day Two
#1305 - just got back, is going to read through and see if he has been replaced.
Day Three
#1411 - “hi”.
#1423 - Was going to look back at the posts of a player but that player has been killed. Asks for patience.
#1426 - asks who the “noob” players are.
#1429 - response to a post by sachertorte concerning the “3rd vote as scum tell”.
#1435 name abbreviation preference.
#1509 - in response to question by HazelNutCoffee he says he made a mistake in referring to the FOS Clockwork Jackal placed on him as a vote, but that CJ saying “no one looks scummy yet” is a scum tell.
#1528 - in response to question by HNC he says he couldn’t vote for both Hal Briston and CJ, that he had picked CJ over Hal because he had killed Hal in previous games and because he wanted to get some discussion flowing. “I rate FOS’s, implied or straight up, as important as a vote. They can be very revealing.”
#1529 - asked that Blaster Master note on the living players list who subbed in and who they replaced.
#1679 - voted Scuba Ben "on the strength of Q’ings analysis.
After deliberation, I’ve decided that I can’t be sure that our late Oracle voted for Captain Pig because of an investigation. I’m thinking now that it’s more likely that his comment about sachertorte was a breadcrumb. I’ll need more time to revisit all of his posts to make a better decision.
Unvote MadTheSwine.
–FCOD
BLARG! That should be:
Unvote MadTheSwine.
–FCOD
Well, time to majorly catch up.
I went back and looked over most of Hal’s posts from the beginning, but really, adding here after going over all of the replies since Day Four started, nothing I can add or say hasn’t already been said. I don’t really think we’ll be for certain who he was leaving breadcrumbs on, but like others have noted, he’ll have had time to investigate twice.
That being said, I agree with (I think Fretful brought it up the best first?) Fretful Porpentine in the regards that the two that seemed to have ANYTHING remote was Mad and Sach, Mad leaning towards possible scum or, at least, non believer and Sach leading toward possible town.
That being said, I would not have envied being the Oracle in this game because if investigating someone and finding “non-believer” one would have to tread carefully because both Cult AND actual Nonbelievers come up the same. : /
That being said, if one of the breadcrumbs WAS Sach and was a “pro town” read, we shouldn’t forget that the Prophet would investigate as town.
But in any case, Hal expressed two implications of scummy/non-believerness in his posts while he was still with us…one was of Mal via a vote (although it brings to light why he, Hal, unvoted Mal there in the middle and then seemed to hesitantly place a vote for him again to tie it up with, at the time, Kat/AZteach). Therefore this doesn’t really damn Mal any more in my mind or eyes…but Mad is a different story.
However, before I get onto that, let me reply to replies so far…starting with one actually mad yesterDay:
Snipped heavy.
Well I don’t know what else to tell you. Really I don’t see how, personally, you can have suspicions based on such a flimsy thing, but I guess that’s just me. But you’re going off of me asking about what the third vote is scum theory was? JUST that? Because that’s certainly what it seems like you’re saying. I seriously had never heard of it before and was unaware of what Queuing and Hal were talking about. I’m sure I wasn’t the only one either, but I guess being the only one to ask about it puts the spotlight on me in your mind? Is it not conceiveable that someone really may not have known or heard of it before to you? I really don’t get this, but whatever, if you feel that’s all you need to keep me on your radar, then whatever works, I guess. But I just don’t know how or what I could offer that would make you believe me or take my word at face value any more than you do now (or did there, apparently).
I wouldn’t really call this a “verification” by any means. If someone role claimed Oracle (predeath of Hal, of course…and made by someone who was most assuredly NOT Hal), I wouldn’t really have wanted Hal to say “No, no, he/she’s lying. I’m the Oracle!”.
Really, keeping one’s mouth shut and mum in that situation is for the best, I feel.
Oh really? Where? If you’re so sure then why haven’t you looked and picked out things that look great in your defense then? I have and all I see are posts where he votes for you and says things like he’s feeling stronger in his vote of you. :dubious: That doesn’t seem to be a very strong crumb in favor of you being town.
Anyway, Mad actually rose and is above Pleonast in my suspicions, no easy task since I’ve been building suspicions on the latter since Day One. The only reason I’m not ready to vote is the huge pile on that’s transpired from the get go toDay. Sakes alive, that has to be the FASTEST bandwagon I’ve ever seen. It’s very possible that with the death of the Oracle, the scum see this as a prime oppurtunity to try for Mad but then again, Mad, himself, may REALLY be scum too.
In any case, his last minute vote for scuba in the VERY LAST minute of yesterDay put him far up on my radar…and I was already expressing and having suspicions of him. Him being mentioned by Hal in so many “strong” vote ways seems to seal it…
So bandwagon be damned…for now I’m going to throw my vote in too for now.
Vote MadtheSwine
That being said, I haven’t forgotten about Pleonast, who is still way up there…and also…(and this is something I wanted to say for awhile)…what the heck is up with everyone voting so late all the time? Crap people, it’s like most hold off until the very last Day and then all vote in one big cluster and flutter of votes and unvotes. Why the eleventh hour voting? This is getting to the point where some didn’t even vote at all the last Day.
I understand taking your time and going over things more than once but last minute voting doesn’t do much good. It all of shoots down a chance for role claims and further deliberation on that. It really looks shady to vote in the last few hours…and if it was one or two of you, that would put you high on MY list, at least. But it’s not. It’s about six or seven players in this game, and I cannot believe SOME real town isn’t in that group. Some come on people.
Oh, and another slight hit upon…but this is just personal opinion…I just don’t get voting and then not saying much of anything else during the current Day after. What good does that do for town when and if you’re dead and gone? Even when you vote, at the very least, you can still put forth opinions and feedback of other’s replies. I’m thinking mainly of Pleonast when I type this because of yesterDay’s “I’m here but I already voted and I don’t want to repeat myself” line. Not verbatim of course,…but others have done this too…like FCOD and Nava (yeah, remember her? I barely do either). You guys can stay around and actually talk even though you put in votes, you know. 
This is not “smudges” or suspicions, but my personal belief is that even if one has voted, sticking around and making posts never hurt.
My two cents, for what it’s worth.
I wouldn’t want the oracle (now the apprentice) investigating claims that can be verified through other means! I want the oracle (apprentice) out finding scum. Counter-claims may lose you a town power role, but they guarantee a scum kill.
I’ll trade an alchemist for scum any day of the week, Mal.
I haven’t really had much to say. I strongly feel that if you have nothing significant to say, STFU! This game is so bloated that it’s hard to pull out any useful analysis. All that’s happened is the killing of a bunch of town power roles and one scum that didn’t leave much to go on. Until something happens that gives me information, I won’t be saying much.
I still have my suspicions of **Pleonast **for the reasons I’ve previously outlined. I’m still suspicious of Captain Pig because of Hal’s vote. I’m a little less suspicious of **sachertorte **because of Hal’s “blessing”. Other than that, everyone else is pretty much equally suspicious to me.
–FCOD
Fair enough. Which, I guess, means that if the real Alchemist hasn’t piped up yet, toDay would be a good time to do so - and do we then take it that if no-one contradicts our claimant, we consider the claim good? (Despite having run a fun pirate-infested ship, I’m still new-ish at this game, having been convicted in my absence in MII after not many Days.)
OK Mad, in my initial read of Hal’s posts last night I thought he might not have investigated you, but where in the world do you get the impression that he may have investigated you and found you innocent?!?! He ended day 3 with a vote on you! If he had investigated you and found you innocent, why was he voting for you on day 3?
For the time being, yes. Mensch was hardly playing at all, which is why I was suspicious. A good post removes that impression. I’d put him at the same background mistrust level that most players are at for me.
I agree with Malacandra on this (and don’t think that being right about tactics clears you of being scummy ). Conversation for the sake of filling space or marking time doesn’t help the Town. Sometimes I feel those who post a lot are trying to make it hard for others to analyze their posts. It doesn’t take long to read all of my posts, so it’s easy to make a decision about me one way or the other.
I agree about your complaints about late voting. But I think past of the problem is that some players have expressed sentiments that “votes matter” as opposed to the “easy vote” philosophy I take. If votes are important, then players will have a tendency to hold back, to make it count more, to make the right choice. I much prefer the vote how you feel, and make changes later, if needed.
On preview: I see even the FlyingCow agrees with me about fewer posts.
If a counter-claim does not occur, I don’t think anyone should just believe the original role-claim by default. The safest thing to do is to keep everything in context. A role-claim can be:
-confirmed by the role-holder’s death
-somewhat confirmed by other members of the same role/group
-somewhat confirmed via investigation
-somewhat challenged by a counter-claim
-as yet unchallenged by a counter-claim
I think everyone should keep the context in mind, especially when another player chooses to believe one way or another (excluding the first situation) when posting analysis or justifying a vote/FOS.