While the Oracle did die last Night, the Apprentice did not obtain his crystal ball until this Morning when it was discovered that he was dead. Thus, the enhancements to the Apprentice’s readings will occur for the first time begining Night Four.
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Fair enough. Which, I guess, means that if the real Alchemist hasn’t piped up yet, toDay would be a good time to do so - and do we then take it that if no-one contradicts our claimant, we consider the claim good? (Despite having run a fun pirate-infested ship, I’m still new-ish at this game, having been convicted in my absence in MII after not many Days.)
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think we should necessarily consider the claim good; I for one am still keeping an eye on Hockey Monkey. If she is not the Alchemist, the real Alchemist may have decided that it is worth more to stay low and possibly still be of use.
And I agree with the above players about the late votes; I think votes are important - so important I am very suspicious of anyone who doesn’t vote - but votes can be changed. If you vote at the last minute you stifle discussion and don’t give the person you are voting for a chance to defend themself. This is not in the best interest of town; it is in the best interest of scum because we run the risk of killing off power roles because they didn’t get a chance to claim.
[QUOTE=FlyingCowOfDoom]
I haven’t really had much to say. I strongly feel that if you have nothing significant to say, STFU! This game is so bloated that it’s hard to pull out any useful analysis. All that’s happened is the killing of a bunch of town power roles and one scum that didn’t leave much to go on. Until something happens that gives me information, I won’t be saying much.
[/QUOTE]
I agree that people should try hard to contribute to gameplay, but telling people to STFU unless they have something “significant” to say is a bit harsh. It’s just a game, for crying out loud.
Plus, I think the power role kills were mostly Night kills. Actually, I think they were all Night kills. What analysis were we supposed to do to prevent that? Out of three Day kills we got one Cultist. That’s not so bad. The Night kills were unfortunate, but they were out of our hands.
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady]
I don’t think we should necessarily consider the claim good; I for one am still keeping an eye on Hockey Monkey. If she is not the Alchemist, the real Alchemist may have decided that it is worth more to stay low and possibly still be of use.
And I agree with the above players about the late votes; I think votes are important - so important I am very suspicious of anyone who doesn’t vote - but votes can be changed. If you vote at the last minute you stifle discussion and don’t give the person you are voting for a chance to defend themself. This is not in the best interest of town; it is in the best interest of scum because we run the risk of killing off power roles because they didn’t get a chance to claim.
[/QUOTE]
This post got me thinking, is the Alchemist really a useful pro town role? It only has a 1/n chance of blocking the cult (n being the number of cultists) but has a 3/4 chance when it comes to blockign someone else. So the failiure rate of the Alchemist is high for scum, but relitivly low when it comes to blocking other players…such as the apprentice or a priest.
I am not saying we should kill HM because the role she claimed sucks, if she is an alchemist she is still anti cult, and that is better than nothing. But I would say the role has a greater potential for harm than for good.
Am I missing anything?
I figure now that someone has claimed alchemist we might be able to talk a little about this role.
I think I said “there is at least one of every role”. Obviously, by virtue of their descriptions, some of the roles wouldn’t make sense to have more than one or would seriously break the game if there were several of them. That said, clearly some of the roles HAVE to have more than one, or they wouldn’t be effective.
So, to answer your question, there could be more than one Alchemist. This is true of all roles.
[QUOTE=zuma]
OK Mad, in my initial read of Hal’s posts last night I thought he might not have investigated you, but where in the world do you get the impression that he may have investigated you and found you innocent?!?! He ended day 3 with a vote on you! If he had investigated you and found you innocent, why was he voting for you on day 3?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t have that impression…I was just hoping there might be something there…thanks fer checking.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
This post got me thinking, is the Alchemist really a useful pro town role? It only has a 1/n chance of blocking the cult (n being the number of cultists) but has a 3/4 chance when it comes to blockign someone else. So the failiure rate of the Alchemist is high for scum, but relitivly low when it comes to blocking other players…such as the apprentice or a priest.
I am not saying we should kill HM because the role she claimed sucks, if she is an alchemist she is still anti cult, and that is better than nothing. But I would say the role has a greater potential for harm than for good.
Am I missing anything?
I figure now that someone has claimed alchemist we might be able to talk a little about this role.
[/QUOTE]
Well, here’s how I see it. Bear in mind that my view is colored by the fact that the only prior game I’ve played in is M2.
Let’s say we’re in a situation like the endgame of M2 – fewer than ten players left, among whom are two or three scum, no townie power roles left alive, and no real way to get a bead on who is scum and who isn’t. (Sadly, this is starting to look all too much like where we’re going.) I think an Alchemist-type character has a shot at helping the town in this situation by picking another player to block each night and telling the town in advance who’s being blocked. No kill that night, we lynch the blocked player the next day. It’s sort of like the Apprentice: a quasi-investigative roll that isn’t always right, but at least this way you don’t get any false positives.
Of course, I’m assuming the Alchemist stays alive long enough in this scenario to be of use, and … well, actually I’m not sure how you make that work. Hmm.
The Alchemist is not required to use his power on any given Night; he would be just as happy to stay home and work on creating gold instead. 
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine]
The thing is here,that I was away again.I returned Sunday morning and had just enough time to come in read a few pages and vote.
I considered the ramifications of not voting,voting for Scuba and having him be scum,voting for **Scuba ** and have him not be scum.I knew anything I did at that point was gonna look bad.I couldn’t really go two days without casting a vote,so I had to do something.
I expected the Cult was gonna kill either Hazelnut or Hal last Night(if neither was cult themselves) cause they knew even more suspicion would fall on me and they get a 2 for 1 kill.On the surface it looks even worse for me as Hal was the oracle,but I think if we go back over Hal’s posts, we will see that I was not investigated or was investigated and found to be innocent. I will do it myself as well,but if some of you want to do it (and keep an open mind) as to who **Hal ** really investigated it should be clear.
Fact o’ business,I bet he did investigate me and find me innocent and the breadcrumbs should be there…he couldn’t do a 180 all the sudden after investigating me and say I was a good guy,but I wager the crumbs are there.
[/QUOTE]
Mad the Swine, do you want to be killed? You say “I bet he did investigate me” and “I wager the crumbs are there”, then when zuma calls you on it you say:
[QUOTE=Mad the Swine]
I don’t have that impression…I was just hoping there might be something there…thanks fer checking.
[/QUOTE]
I am not getting the impression you care if you are killed or not.
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine]
I don’t have that impression…I was just hoping there might be something there…thanks fer checking.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you do have that impression. Or you said you did. Here:
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine]
Fact o’ business,I bet he did investigate me and find me innocent and the breadcrumbs should be there…he couldn’t do a 180 all the sudden after investigating me and say I was a good guy,but I wager the crumbs are there.
[/QUOTE]
Why did you think he investigated you and found you innocent when his very last vote was for you? It has already been pointed out there are two possibilities: 1) he hadn’t investigated you and was voting based on gut alone, or 2) he had investigated you and found you were not a Believer. If he were sure of your innocence I seriously doubt he would have left his vote on you at the end of yesterDay.
Simulpost! w00t!
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
Yeah, you do have that impression. Or you said you did. Here:
Why did you think he investigated you and found you innocent when his very last vote was for you? It has already been pointed out there are two possibilities: 1) he hadn’t investigated you and was voting based on gut alone, or 2) he had investigated you and found you were not a Believer. If he were sure of your innocence I seriously doubt he would have left his vote on you at the end of yesterDay.
[/QUOTE]
I guess he didn’t investigate me then.
I am a plain ol’ citizen.
[QUOTE=NAF1138]
I am not saying we should kill HM because the role she claimed sucks, if she is an alchemist she is still anti cult, and that is better than nothing. But I would say the role has a greater potential for harm than for good.
Am I missing anything?
I figure now that someone has claimed alchemist we might be able to talk a little about this role.
[/QUOTE]
The alchemist is still beneficial as a roleclaim-able role. Suppose, HM really is the alchemist, then the role will have prevented us from dunking HM, a pro-town player. Now of course we ended up dunking a different pro-town player, but we are removing unknowns from the mix. This is still good.
As for negative effects of the alchemist. HM has stated she has selected to no use her role and make gold instead; a wise choice in my opinion.
I see no reason to dunk HM or even discuss the possibilty of dunking HM at this time. If it was a false roleclaim, the evidence will contradict her eventually.
Hmm, someone asked if there could be more than Alchemist. I must admit, I’ve been operating under the logic that powerroles were unique. I can see the possiblity of more than one alchemist being non-game-breaking (very anti-town, but not game breaking). Plus the fact that someone thought to ask BM the question makes me think that someone who is not HM asked the question. Specifically, the phase “If it IS possible, would you mind posting that in the game thread?”
I can see HM asking this if she false roleclaimed.
I can’t see a non-Hockey Monkey alchemist asking this to see there could be a definitive conclusion about Hockey Monkey. The conditional of the request is really off to me. In other words, if I were asking, I would just ask. The asker seems only concerned if it is possible for multiple alchemists. The only person who stands to benefit from this is a false roleclaiming Hockey Monkey.
Still, I’m of the opinion of letting Hockey Monkey be. And if Hockey Monkey is lying, then the real Alchemist should be blocking Hockey Monkey every night! Even if there are two alchemists, this action would still be in the towns best interest. Oh, and no need to be yappy about it.
Oops, that should be “that someone is probably HM” I had a different initial thought, but I’ve now concluded that HM being the asker makes the most sense.
[QUOTE=sachertorte]
Oops, that should be “that someone is probably HM” I had a different initial thought, but I’ve now concluded that HM being the asker makes the most sense.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is a nice cover for Hockey Monkey should the Alchemist be night killed or dunked. Interesting.
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine]
I guess he didn’t investigate me then.
I am a plain ol’ citizen.
[/QUOTE]
Are you going to address the question of why you’re contradicting yourself? You say “I bet he did investigate me, means I’m innocent” and when people point out he didn’t, you turn around and say, “I never had the impression that he did.” SCL pointed it out as well.
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
Are you going to address the question of why you’re contradicting yourself? You say “I bet he did investigate me, means I’m innocent” and when people point out he didn’t, you turn around and say, “I never had the impression that he did.” SCL pointed it out as well.
[/QUOTE]
Did you happen to read the rest of that post..the one were you quote me as saying “I never had the impression that he did.”?
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine]
Did you happen to read the rest of that post..the one were you quote me as saying “I never had the impression that he did.”?
[/QUOTE]
You mean, this post?
Your original post did not say anything about “hoping” that the Oracle had investigated you. It sounded like you were pretty sure that he had, and that he had left crumbs to boot.
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine]
Did you happen to read the rest of that post..the one were you quote me as saying “I never had the impression that he did.”?
[/QUOTE]
The part where it says:
[QUOTE=Mad the Swine]
I am a plain ol’ citizen.
[/QUOTE]
Is that the part you are talking about? Give me a break, Mad, do you think we expect you to role-claim as a Cultist?
If you want to help your case, you might start with explaining the contradictions in your posts. Saying something and denying it doesn’t help any.
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
I agree that people should try hard to contribute to gameplay, but telling people to STFU unless they have something “significant” to say is a bit harsh. It’s just a game, for crying out loud.
[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t trying to be harsh. You couldn’t hear my tone when I wrote that but it was supposed to be half kidding.
–FCOD