Johns said Sanford, who is originally from Michigan, told him that he moved to Utah for a fresh start to plow snow and while there he started a relationship with a Latter-day Saints woman. “They wanted me to get rid of my tattoos. They wanted me to do all this stuff, and I wouldn’t do it,” Johns recalls Sanford telling him.
Maybe the church attacked was the exes, and he had been there before, which would give the familiarity with the layout speculated about in this thread.
Except…. the relationship was supposedly in Utah and the attack was in Michigan. I mean, they’re only separated by over a thousand miles.
I suspect it was more a matter of “these are the Mormons in the my current neighborhood” than anything else. But, of course, I’m just guessing and I could be wrong.
I generally think of provocation as something that happens immediately before an event, but I hate pedantic arguments more than almost anything else on earth, so I guess “unprompted” it is.
Sorry to hear it. I hate imprecise and inaccurate choice of words, although not more than everything else on earth, but more so than ever now when accuracy and precision are so wanting in public discourse.
It was just a WAG that this was arson as opposed to something unplanned like his car catching on fire or some candles getting knocked into something flammable.
I understand what you’re saying here, but I’ve known a lot of firemen in my lifetime. Firemen run into whatever they want, whenever they want. If they get yelled at afterwards, it’s something they deal with. They are, in general, incredibly dedicated and brave people.
They’re not allowed to, or they are not required to? There is a difference. It’s conceivable that certain circumstances might cause firefighters to try to put down the fire even if they are being shot at. It’s a basic cost/benefit evaluation. Also, where are you speaking about? Everywhere? I’m not sure you can speak for every fire department everywhere.
The radio traffic from the incident was posted on YouTube yesterday, I listened to it on the drive to the office this morning (about 90 minutes or so). The first arriving company was asking about staging for law enforcement, but was cleared pretty near right away. The timeline is difficult to determine as the radio recording deleted the pauses between messages, but it was really, really early in the incident.
It sounded like they were focusing on rescues instead of getting water on the fire. They were clearly overwhelmed, far too many things to do before they had enough resources to do them. They were getting victims outside with no ability to move them away. I was having a tough time keeping companies/voices separated, but it sounded like it was a couple of 3rd alarm companies that initiated fire attack, and then they had water issues once they had enough on scene to really get going. The roof started coming in shortly after and they dumped the building.
I’ve always been an advocate that putting water on the fire makes most of your other problems a lot easier to deal with, but you have to address the call that’s in front of you. It was one of those incidents that kept playing “glad I wasn’t the incident commander” over and over in my head.
As have I, having spent the last 22 years being in charge of them. Firefighters are also pretty good at following instructions, and we generally know who has what role at an incident. Law enforcement clears the site, then we go fix the other problems. We’ve done a lot of work as an industry in the last ten years working directly with law enforcement for hostile responses - even then we’re behind the cops and have some semblance of body armor. There are policies and protocols in place to make that work, and it falls back on following orders. It’s ad-hoc but highly organized and controlled.
Can’t help anyone if you’re down, and you’re now part of the problem. Post incident, they aren’t just getting yelled at, they’re getting suspended or fired if they ran in whenever they wanted.
I will defer to your obviously superior experience. Most of the stories I’ve heard are not of the “active shooter/explosives on-site” kind, more of the “that roof looks shaky, hang back” “but there’s a report of a kid in there” variety.
One of the first rules of first aid is to ensure that you’re not putting yourself in danger trying to help others, thus potentially creating another victim..
I’m a lapsed EMT, never employed, but remember well the first assessment on arrival is ‘scene safety.’ If you forget to say or don’t explicitly affirm that you completed the scene safety assessment during testing, you fail. It’s like a seatbelt during driving lessons and licensing. Scene safety is meant to include active shooters, of course, but more realistically gas leaks, power lines, traffic conditions, need for watercraft/rescue harnesses, excavation shoring, etc are all a lot more likely day to day.
Personal protective equipment(PPE) is similarly mumbled to check the box during testing.
I think EMTs are under appreciated by the public in terms of wages. I thought they were surely vivacious last year when I hemorrhaged in the shower and passed out. I was modest about their pulling me naked out of the shower but they didn’t mind a bit. They ought to be paid more to do their jobs.
Actually…yes. Well, the bathroom. I could crawl that far before I bled out.
I bought some to be used to clamp model kit parts together, but they really don’t work well for that. They’re actually too strong, they crush the parts.
