So, what would explain a woman saying it?
Not wanting things near your butt isn’t necessarily anything to do with sex.
Yeah, I share your puzzlement, pizzabrat. No other explanation comes readily to mind.
Then see jsgoddess’s previous. I presume you wouldn’t insist that my own level-headed reasonableness over anal examination implied any homophilia on my part? :dubious:
Similarly, the fact that I enjoy anal sex with a woman doesn’t mean I want to do it with a man, any more than the fact I enjoy receiving blow-jobs means I want a man to give me one.
Next, I call upon the gay male Dopers to bear witness to the fact that plenty of gay guys won’t take it up the butt - and I really think you’d be stretching to call that homophobic.
I really, really hope that I never have to have anything shoved up my urethra - I think I could cope if it was an urgent necessity - and I say this not because I have any objection to having my dick handled by a doctor of either sex, but because I would expect it to be darned uncomfortable.
In short, ascribing an unwillingness to submit to rectal examination to homophobia is either (a) a poorly-thought-out argument or (b) yet another taunt levelled at stupid straight men, the big babies. Either way, I’m giving it the big :dubious: .
I’ll repeat, if women have “immense fear and shame of being penetrated anally by a doctor” are they homophobic?
Whoa, dude. Calm down. No offense was intended. And “homophobia” is probably not the right word, either. But frankly, I suspect at least some men are motivated by some sort of intense personal discomfort at the idea of being “penetrated”, and if you think that has no connection whatsoever to discomfort at the implication that one is gay, then, well, I have no idea where you’re coming from.
Um, that would be me, since I’m the only person I ever recall making that argument in any thread around here. I can’t remember any of the other gay guys mentioning that fact. I’m the one who carps about the automatic association between gay men and anal sex.
But gosh, I don’t recall making any statements, claims, assertions, or judgments in regard to men and what their preferred sexual practices are. You’re making a tremendously bad comparison here - one normally doesn’t get a doctor’s examination because they get off on it; it’s done to catch health problems before they become severe. What someone does or doesn’t enjoy in the bedroom has no bearing on what bizarre line of thinking makes certain men absolutely unwilling to receive routine medical care.
Note what I was quoting. pizzabrat was describing men who would prefer to die than receive proper medical care, including screenings that involve stuff going in the ol’ back door. (And yes, I’ve heard men say the same thing. I can only hope they weren’t serious.)
Now, what do you attribute that to? Since they’re not homophobes, and they’re not “big babies”, what are they? Rectal penetration is at worst mildly uncomfortable. A lot of the things a doctor normally does in an examination are worse. So we’re discussing a certain subgroup of men who would prefer death to a brief, slightly uncomfortable examination? But they’re not “babies” or homophobes. What are they? What motivates that kind of complete irrationality?
I’m not talking about men who are apprehensive about that kind of thing. I’m talking about men who make the incomprehensible decision to die rather than receive normal diagnosis and treatment. What does motivate them, hmm?
Probably the same revulsion, horror, disbelief, and fear that motivates women who do the same thing.
Then could you shed some light on what that is?
I offer this purely as an anecdote:
My father and I were moving a mattress, and the next day he complained of back pain. It happens, he’s not a spring chicken anymore, but when it had been three weeks and he had not been UPRIGHT the entire time, my mother and I forced him to go to the emergency room. It was like pulling teeth.
Turns out, he had a collapsed vertabrae. You know why it had collapsed? Cancer had eaten it away. Now he’s four inches shorter, and currently in remission because we caught it in time. His back is beginning to heal as well. I love my dad, and many men in my life, and if I have to push to get them to take care of themselves, I’ll do it. And maybe where Cartooniverse is from doesn’t have a problem with men not going to the doctor when they should, but every man I have ever known is reluctant to go unless they are missing a damn arm.
However, I don’t think it’s because of being a baby. I think it’s wanting to be able to appear tough and able to “shake it off”. So that condescending woman in no way speaks for all women who press the men in their lives to take care of themselves. Just saying.
Revulsion, horror, disbelief, and fear.
Right . . . so I’m still not really following. “Horror” at having a finger up your butt?
That doesn’t seem a bit disproportionate to you?
Many people, including me, have incredibly strong aversion to being touched. Couple that with even stronger aversion to being touched intimately by someone we’re not intimate with, and for many even stronger than that aversion to being touched anywhere near the anus and no, I don’t think it’s disproportionate. It’s extreme, sure. And probably fairly rare. But I understand it. My husband is very tolerant of most medical procedures. I am tolerant of some and adamantly opposed to others, and it has nothing to do with the amount of pain involved.
True enough, in my experience (I am bi). Never took it up the ass, never found anal play fun (tried it alone), never even really found looking at guys’ asses very interesting. What interests me about guys’ bodies are their penises, their skin, their muscles, their body hair, and how it all smells and tastes. Oddly, I had a girlfriend who liked it in the ass, and it was an interesting change of pace, but not a natural inclination for me.
Right again. Also, consider:
And IMHO, women have a vested interest in wanting men to deny their pain because it gives them more of a forum for their own. When women say they want men to express their feelings more, they mean “I love you more than anything”, “awwww, what a cute kitty”, and “your new dress is lovely”. They don’t mean they want you to express feelings of pain, anxiety, fear, etc. That isn’t allowed. Even when it is, it’s only accepted insofar as it correlates with the woman’s own feeling, i.e., isn’t a male-specific feeling alien to her. That’s subject to long rounds of sighing and eye-rollling.
Tell her that women with glasses are babes.
Very well put, I agree. I didn’t mean to imply that I live in Responsibleville, Population Plenty. Just was saying that the flurry of reports irked me, because they spoke unfairly about men when as is evident from this thread, the thresholds are different gender-regardless. Some folks can’t stand hauling off to the Dr.
Thank god your Dad listened and finally was seen. How scary…
Translates quite simply to “shame, embarrassment, stupidity and ignorance.”
Then you need to get a grip. It’s entirely disproportionate. you’re not “being touched intimately.” You’re being examined by a medical professional to determine whether or not you have a problem. There will be no candle light, no dinner and no movie beforehand. It’s. Clinical. The fact that you are unable to differentiate “being touched down there” by your husband in a romantic way from your doctor performing a necessary exam is your problem. That doctor has zero interest in you sexually. This embarrassment and shame you feel is whatever conditioning you grew up with and, later, reinforced. You can overcome it. Just keep reminding yourself that it isn’t personal, it’s clinical, and no more sexual than getting your teeth cleaned.
If it really has nothing to do with the amount of pain involved, then I’d say that person is being ignorant. And selfish. And absurd. Wailling that it’s just how you feel and people should respect that doesn’t really excuse it. You’re being extremely irresponsible because you don’t like your ass touched. I don’t like being poked and prodded, either. My first mammogram was no fun, but with my family history, I figured a little embarrassment and discomfort isn’t much compared with dying young.
I realize there’s a high degree of shame and embarrassment involved. But really, what is there to be ashamed of? Do you think your doctor or his staff are going to run around town telling everyone he had his finger up your bum? Do you think he’s going to be looking at your body and finding flaws? All of these things are in your head. They shouldn’t stand in the way of you getting the best medical care you can.
Whatever. It’s not homophobia.
For you. It’s not homophobia for you. Are you really prepared to state factually that it isn’t homophobia for anyone who objects to having a prostate exam?
No. I am responding to people who said it was the only answer.
I think the burden of proof is the other way around, unless casual assertions of homophobia are beyond criticism.
Dude (btw, I’m fairly chilled, and by and large, you rock), someone, somewhere, was attributing a male reluctance to be examined anally to homophobia. (Not a sentence I’m overly proud of, but it more or less parses and I’m tired.) I thoroughly agree with your last sentence. Men that don’t want their balloon knots interfered with, I should say, would be averse to homosexuality because that was what, in their minds, the preference entailed. “Think queer is yucky because don’t want stuff up the arse” does not map to “Don’t want stuff up the arse because think queer is yucky”, is what I’m trying to say.
Sleep! I need sleep! Heading bedwards, with nothing anal going on…
Hey, irrational fears have a way of being…irrational. 
What they aren’t, however, is insurmountable. If it’s a phobia, it can be overcome. It isn’t easy, but it’s do-able. All you need is the right motivation.
I move a motion that we all agree that there are some people who don’t want a finger up their bum because they’re homophobic, but not all. Seconded?