Funny this thread should reappear now.
When I started it, I had just started a conversation with a woman on a dating app, so I had given myself, ‘sotto voce’, one last bit of wiggle room.
(High risk of oversharing, skip the passages in italics if you don’t like that)
We met at the beginning of June and it was great. She texted me the next morning that it was a “good sign” that she “had completely lost track of time” and that we should “spend more time together” soon.
The second date was in mid-June and it went so well that after a couple of hours I extended my hand towards hers and she immediately took it. We kissed soon afterwards. A lot. As I was walking her to the bus stop she said she hoped we’d have “many more dates like this”. Later, she sent me a goodnight text with a hug emoji.
She ghosted me a couple of days after that.
In classic manipulator fashion, she resurfaced the following week.
Her “abusive” ex-husband was challenging the child custody terms. She needed time to deal with this and then we’d meet again.
I received a text from her yesterday morning.
“I liked you a lot”, “pity to meet someone special in my situation”, “writing this with tears”, “I won’t forget your gentle behaviour and nice eyes”, “it isn’t fair of me to burden you with the consequences of my past mistakes.”
At this point I have only three explanations for her behaviour.
1 - entitled delusion (I’m not fit for a relationship but I deserve one anyway!) ;
2 - abusive vanity (can I still seduce a man? Yes! Next…) ;
3 - predatory scam (I need find some sucker to pay my court ordered 60K fine).
Whatever. That settles it.
35 years ago almost to the day, I met my first girlfriend.
We promised to see each other again after the holidays, which took us to different places.
During the two months that followed, I declined very direct proposals from a couple of girls because I “had someone.”
Someone who called me at the end of the summer to tell me that she’d met a cool guy, and that she “couldn’t resist. Sorry.”
In retrospect, that was just the prelude. Both Sides Now…
In the past 35 years, I’ve tried to take the high road, be respectful, and play by the rules. All I got in return was humiliation and abuse. Time to close that door.
It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose.
Ich wandte mich und sah alles Unrecht, das geschah unter der Sonne.
If these are the only three explanations you can think of, I’m not sure she’s the issue here. I’m sorry this happened, but your read on it seems way, way off to me.
Yeah. Did you even consider the possibility that she actually has an abusive ex-husband and a serious custody problem?
And why on earth is one of your supposed three possibilities “predatory scam” when there’s no indication that she ever asked you for money, let alone for 60K?
Based on the way you described what happened in your post, I agree that you not trying to date would be best for all involved.
Hard concur.
What about possibility #4? She is telling you the truth and is in the difficult situation she described.
Women are human beings, not terrifying creatures from the D&D monster manual. Until you lose your extreme paranoia (and I sincerely hope you do) I agree you should not date.
OTOH, people (of any gender) in tough spots are certainly prone to believing that their fairy god mother will send them some relief. To which they believe they are utterly entitled because they think of themselves as a Good Person who they hold in high regard.
Whether relief comes in the form of a small windfall lottery ticket, an unexpected lead on a better job, or some person of their preferred gender who’s both willing and able to help. Sometimes in exchange for tangible help back later, sometimes just for sex and friendship, and sometimes in “exchange” just for the warm fuzzy sensation the helper gets from helping someone who they both perceive to be in need.
A LOT of humans are real good at advancing their agenda with what seems to be a casual ruthlessness towards the people they employ as tools along the way.
The “I need rescuing bait” persona is very common. As is the “I’m a rescuer; having done that now I own you” persona. Those two stick to each other like a two-part epoxy that hardens into a plastic explosive.
Are you seriously saying that being respectful is the wrong thing to do?
I submit you might not be the gallant person you think you are towards women if in 35-years they all just have not understood you somehow.
I remember what a friend once told me long ago after I broke-up with a woman:
“The one thing consistent in all your failed relationships is you.”
That hurt but also brought some clarity.
Are you sure? Check between “Wombat, Dire” and “Wood Elf”?
No, I was trying to say the opposite. I think I tried to do the right thing for the past 35 years only to be thrown under the bus when I least expected it.
I did, and that was actually my pavlovian reaction when she told me about it, having been trained to suspect that men are always the problem.
She sent me the lawyer’s letter. It makes it very clear that she has been found guilty of child non-representation and repeated breaches of the custody agreement over the past years. She was the problem, at least as far as the law is concerned.
Many of the women I’ve known who presented themselves as victims turned out to be emotional abusers : my ex-wife (who was also physically violent and threatened to call the police if I dared try to protect myself), my ex (who never mentioned my existence to her friends and family in the 2 1/2 years we were together) and half a dozen of those I’ve met in the past two years.
…which is exactly what I was saying when I started this thread.
I’m perfectly aware of the fact the there must be something about me that makes me go through this constantly.
I have no delusion of being the world’s greatest catch but I do think I have quite a few things going for me. Basic respect for every human being and gentle behaviour, a stable job where I consistently get top reviews, good conversation skills on many subjects, a wide range of hobbies, a quirky sense of humour (ok, it doesn’t really shine through here), impeccable hygiene and a good fitness level (I’ll turn 50 in November but people think that I’m in my early 40s).
Perhaps I’m not as desirable as I think.
Perhaps I suffer from White Knight Syndrome, which make me an easy prey for abusive women.
Perhaps I’m really bad at reading people.
Perhaps I’m too sensitive. Or paranoid.
Perhaps it’s just bad luck.
It does not matter anymore. I emotionally drained. I’ve had this ball-in-my-stomach, metallic-taste-in-my-mouth feeling as if I was about to be sick for the past two weeks. This is literally making me physically ill.
Stupidity is keeping on doing the same mistakes and expecting different results. I like to think that I’m not stupid.
I’m stepping out of this farce.
Unless maybe one is prone to dating banshees, hags, harpies, medusas, sirens, or succubi. We’ve all been there.
You do seem to have a propensity for making yourself the martyr of your own stories. What makes you easy prey for abusive women is that you allow yourself to be abused in the name of “doing the right thing and playing by the rules” (whatever that means).
Let me retell your story with the appropriate level of perspective:
I met this girl in June. We went on a couple of dates and kind of hit it off. She’s dealing with this whole ex-husband custody bullshit so we haven’t fucked yet. I don’t think I’m going to call her again.
I’ll also suggest that, if after hearing her side, and seeing what she chose to share, you think she is the problem in this custody battle, don’t walk away, run.
BTW, your three explanations are still incorrect, she is telling the truth, as she sees it. She is dealing with some personal drama, not trying to abuse you, or scam you, or play into a delusion. The fact that she appears to be the source of her own drama doesn’t change the fact that she is being open and honest with you. You should still walk away from someone who turns their own life into a mess.
Well said.
I’m going to take you at your word here.
There’s a thing the shrinks call “repetition compulsion.” It’s when people repeatedly get into toxic relationships because that’s what they’re used to. Possibly it mirrors the relationship their parents had. Surely you are aware that there are successful marriages and happy relationships out there. So if, again taking you at your word, all the women you are in relationships are toxic, why are you attracted to them? I suspect on some deep level you are actively seeking toxic women out. While one option is to go cold turkey, another is to figure out the thing in yourself that repeatedly gets into terrible relationships. I’m guessing that whatever that is, relationships aren’t the only thing it’s affecting. However, to answer that you’ll need a qualified therapist, not a bunch of randos on a message board.
A book by Michelle McKinney Hammond says that. I found it profound. I wish I had it written down.
Something like, you are attracted to their brokenness because you are really trying to heal yourself.
Maybe. But a lot of it seems to me, it’s just what they’re used to.
I knew a woman who would get in relationships with abusive assholes. It got to the point where her friends staged an intervention. She said that if she dated a man who was good to her, she’d get restless and bored.
Say what you will about drama, it isn’t boring.
True. We only had the absolute beginnings of a potential something. I’ll get over it, as I’ve always done. It’s just the constant ups and immediate, unexpected downs that get to me.
This is completely incorrect, however. She’s the one who decided not to pursue our relationship, as she expressed the certainty that I “will meet a wonderful woman in the coming months”. Routine, conscience-clearing BS.
As for “haven’t fucked yet”, of course I thought about it. She was intelligent, interesting to listen to and mild-mannered but also really good-looking. On the other hand, I’m turning 50 soon. Those urges are not as… urgent anymore.
That she shared the lawyer’s letter seems to indicate good faith, especially since it shows her in really bad light.
Her “past mistakes” wouldn’t necessarily have been a dealbreaker, actually. I’ve done my share of mistakes, as a man, a partner and a father. Again, she decided that they were.
And that’s what doesn’t sit well with me.
She signed up to a dating app, went on dates with me, opened the door to a relationship then slammed it shut immediately while she understood she was in hot waters legally. Why do that when she knew she had been violating the custody agreement again for the past year, something for which she’d already been convicted before ? She was aware of the potential implications.
The thing is, I consciously go for women that seem to be the very opposite of toxic : gentle, stable and affectionate. Only when the relationship has started do they suddenly switch, and by then it’s too late to get out easily. I’m not the sort of guy who can go on great dates, kiss and have sex without feeling at least a bit of an emotional attachment.
So, you know my ex…
Finally, I really want to thank you all for your answers. They’ve been helpful, and I appreciate the fact that they were mildly expressed, even when some of my judgements may have been excessive.
I’m going to try one last time, and then probably abandon this thread.
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I think you know that there are happy marriages and relationships out there. You’ve seen them or at least heard of them. Some people on this board are in decent relationships.
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According to you, all the women you have been involved with are toxic. Mathematically, this seems unlikely. Non-toxic women (and men and bears) vastly outnumber the toxic ones.
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Therefore, you are seeking the toxic people out.
You protest that you don’t do this, that you look for nice women, etc. I am sure you are being sincere. But the human mind and unconscious is pretty powerful. People pick up clues that they aren’t aware they are picking up. There’s something about these women and their drama that appeals to you even if you aren’t consciously aware of it.
Unfortunately, you won’t be able to figure these things out on a message board. You’ll need therapy. And you’ll need to be brutally honest with your therapist. You’ll also need to figure out what’s causing your, frankly, fucked up views of women and relationships that you displayed in the early posts of this thread.
Of course you can just give up and walk away. Who can stop you. But it seems to be causing you some anguish. Otherwise you wouldn’t have started this thread.