Michael Flynn's Shining City on the Hill - For Christians Only

This is a P&E sort of story, but considering the information included, it was bound to end up in the Pit, and probably with cause. The CNN article that prompted the thread -

The specific quote that sets jaws a droppin -

“If we are going to have one nation under God – which we must – we have to have one religion.”

And we already know from many, many prior threads about what Flynn considers the one religion. Although, to throw some additional shade, I was just as disgusted (Or possibly more, which took doing with) a certain Ohio state Senatorial candidate

Josh Mandel, who is Jewish, appears to see Flynn’s comments as being in step with his own “Judeo-Christian values”: “We Stand with General Flynn,” Mandel tweeted in response to the backlash. “America was not founded as a secular nation.”

In a related article from the Guardian, his opinions are made a bit more clear, and not for the better.

Mandel’s own religion has been the subject of debate and controversy. In September, the Forward published an op-ed which asked if he was “obscuring his Jewishness” in order to appeal to far-right Christian voters.

In response, Mandel described himself as a “Proud American. Proud Jew. Proud Marine. Proud Zionist. Everything Democrats hate.”

So there you have it. If you’re a democrat, you have to hate other Americans, the Military, Israeli excess, AND non-secular goverments. As the articles point out, it’s a terrifyingly ironic contrast with the concerns of similar types about ‘Sharia Law’.

Speaking to my own prejudice, I am Jewish by culture and upbringing, although not religious, and I know otherwise socially liberal Jews (including in my own family who have an Israeli branch) that were moderate Trump supporters based on his actions regarding Israel - the classic one issue voters who were willing to overlook everything else for their own hot-button issue.

Okay, rant off, everyone else can have their say.

Can’t say I’m surprised because I’ve known of the existence of the American Taliban since before that was a term, what’s different is that they’re saying the quiet part out loud and louder.

This sort, who want a “Christian” nation united under one sect of Christianity, tolerate Jews because of the role Jews are supposed to play in their vision of the End Time: basically, cannon fodder. They don’t actually want Jews in their neighborhood. If they ever do take over I could see at least some of them trying to make a case to deport all the Jews in the US to Israel where they “belong”.


I would post the Doonesbury strip with Mike & Mark meeting the mayor but I can’t seem to find it online.

It’s not that it’s surprising that there are people who believe it. It’s that people with some level of political clout are saying it so openly.

Sure, you had people saying we are “one nation under God” or “a Christian nation,” but you didn’t have people flat out saying that there can only be one religion in America—that we need to eliminate the others. Up until now, the rhetoric was more “Christians deserve religious liberty, too!”

The only reason it’s unsurprising is the same reason the mythical frog is not surprised the water gets even warmer. But will we do what the frog would actually do, and jump out of the pot?

I’d love to see Flynn try to become a religious icon. It would be such a colossal yet entertaining fail.

And of course, Beau of the Fifth Column just had a video on it:

I would say he has it entirely right. Flynn isn’t trying to be a religious icon. It’s more sinister than that. They’ve seen how gullible the “religious right” are and how much they are willing to tolerate if you feed their delusions.

I think it’s more than gullibility, which implies that they’re being fooled. It’s that the Right is out and out saying that if you’re religious (which is now just a euphemism for -Christian-), you have to be part of the Right. That religion and politics is one and the same. And since polarization has been increasingly weaponized by the Trump years, they’re pushing for the next stage.

And considering the voting patterns of (largely but not exclusively white) Christian voters, it’s working. You can have your doubts about your candidate, but you can’t have doubts about your sides righteousness. :man_facepalming:

I agree about that. But the gullibility I’m talking about is that they seem to genuinely think these people are on their side. And they seem unaware of what they’ve given up.

And, well, if you watch the video, that what these guys are pushing is not Christianity but fascism.

This goes back to the bigger topic, which is that there have always been many Christians who can’t tell the difference between forcing someone to put up the external appearance of something, and genuine internal belief within.

You see this with a lot of Christian parenting - “force my kid to go to church, force my kid to read the Bible, force my kid to pray, force my kid to say this or do that and it will mean he’s a real Christian” - not understanding that it’s what’s inside that counts.

People like Flynn, or other Christian theocratists, are just a bigger, political, version of that. If they can’t make America genuinely Christian, then they’ll at least force America to go through the motions of it.

Gott Mit Uns

I think you’re entirely correct @BigT - although especially in some of the newer, more radical post-Trump crazies, some of these politicians may well believe what they’re saying, not just saying it to earn points. And yeah, it’s one of the many flavors of fascism, with the traditional huge dose of “do as I say, don’t do as I do.”

My niggle is with the phrase “unaware of what they’ve given up.” A lot of these people don’t care what they give up, as long as ‘the enemy’ is losing more. From their POV - religious freedom was never valuable, it was a bug in what they felt was the real intent of the founders: that Christians have the right to be religious without interference! Especially appropriate this time of year when all our older memories of how the US Thanksgiving Holiday was (mis)represented.

I see I’m again being unclear, as it wasn’t religious liberty I was referring to with what they’ve given up. It’s all the morality they previously espoused. It was the way they could pretend to have the moral high ground, to point at anything that others do. They seem to think they’re fighting to get the clout back they once had, but instead are wasting what they did have.

The going belief used to be “well, they may be misguided, but, deep down, they’re still good people.” That veneer has been taken off.

Plus, well, if they go along with these guys into that word I blurred, they’re giving up what freedom they do have.

Not to mention all their loved ones they are killing.

I thought their deity was orange.

People like Flynn who pretend to be patriots and pay lip service to the Constitution have no fucking idea of what America is supposed to be about.

Time for Emo Phiilip’s timeless truth:

> Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”
*> *
> He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
*> *
> He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”
*> *
> Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.


I do wonder if any of them are self-aware enough to be hurt by those terms: American Taliban, Talibangelists, Yeehadis, etc. They seem absolutely prideful in their blindness (we won’t talk about how overweening pride has been glorified for this group of ‘Christians’ either), but the few times I’ve seen it come up, they seem to get their hackles up.

In that ‘them are furriners, and we’all are Americans’. Not that they’re fundamentally different in their desires for a (now all but blatantly stated) theocracy - but that they could in any way be associated with anything different/alien. A very, very blind xenophobia.

The One Religion he wants isn’t Christianity. That would mean following that crazy Jesus hippie. What he wants is Trumpism.

Well, Christianity has always been good at adapting itself to new circumstances. And we’ve already established that they aren’t exactly adhering to their own claimed doctrine. What the Religious Right seems to want is a mandate that they’re Godly, and therefore justified in anything they do.

Without having to adhere to that old, difficult ‘moral high ground’ that BigT was talking about. It’s all about shouting “Deus vult!” as they justify acting in a matter their theoretical diety would abhor, in the service of their oh so terribly flawed secular leader.

Sorry, looking back, I realize I may have been unclear - I absolutely realize this is a political movement with religious trappings, that Flynn and his ilk are using the perception that they are the godly ones, and that to be godly, you must be on his side (a claim the 2nd asshat I mentioned in the OP echoes). And that if, say, Pastafarianism was the dominant religion in the nation, they’d be claiming that the noodly hand of the semi-deity was upon them - in the US various flavors of Christianity are dominant, so that’s where he falls.

But, back to the first line of my last post, Christianity was once a downtrodden religion of the masses, that hated and was hated by their Roman superiors. And when Christianity became a useful and dominant force, well, so did their doctrine and enemies. I could certainly see an orange-flavored version of Christianity becoming the de facto (or de jure) religion of a ‘Great America’ - one where the patron saint is a CFSG.

It’s not too different than many of the megachurch celebrities. Sure God and JC may be mentioned, but they aren’t the focus.