More Muslim Marvelousnous

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Ibn_Warraq

That depends on what “terrorism” committed by Muslims you’re referring to.

The IRA is no more a Catholic organization than Nasser’s government was Muslim. Similarly, most of the Irgun weren’t religious at all. What was driving both groups was nationalism. Irish nationalism in the case of the IRA and Zionism in the case of the Irgun.

Similarly, referring to Abu Nidal or the Black September guerillas who carried out Munich as “Muslim terrorists” or claim they were motivated by Islam would be asinine. They were motivated by Palestinian and Arab nationalism(the former being a subset of the latter).

A much better comparison to Osama Bin Laden would be the Lord’s Resistance Army and the people who blew up abortion clinics.

They were motivated by their views of Christianity just as Osama Bin Laden , Al Quaeda, Hamas and the Taliban are motivated by their view of Islam.

Well, thats kind of my point. Blaming Islam for this shit is like blaiming Christianity for every horrible thing that the west has ever done.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@magellan01

Here’s the thing. When’s the last time you heard about Buddhists punishing a girl for being raped by whipping a young girl to death? Jews? Hindus? Mennonites? Quakers? Catholics? Jews? Mormons?

Is your premise that other religions have not been guilty of atrocities? Or is your point that we see more of these things from Islamic countries than from Buddhist or Catholic countries in current events? Wasn’t the “punishment” was illegal in much the same way abortion doctors is illegal or corrective rape is illegal.

But wait, that’s just one incident. And if that were a purely isolated incident, I think you’d be right. But we have incidents like…

…And what, pray tell, is the common denominator here. It’s not only that all this barbarism was perpetuated by Muslims. More important, they all perpetrated the barbarism in the name of Islam.

Now, as I’ve said in this thread an elsewhere, this does not mean that all Muslims are such barbaric scumbags. It means that there is something about the religion that leads humans to act in the most barbaric ways.

So you are sayign that not all muslims think its ok to rape children and then whip them to death but there is somethign about Islam that encourages or is permissive of this sort of behaviour. Something unique about islam?

OK what is it about Islam that encourages this sort of behaviour?

Let me know if you’d like more examples of the asshole Islamic extremists.

Does that answer your question?

No, it doesn’t. Your OP and your title doesn’t distinguish between Islamic extremists and mulsims in general. You are attacking a religion wholesale rather than attacking extremism.

I could make a MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger argument pitting extremism than pitting Islam as a religion of raping children then whipping them to death or ANY of that other stuff youa re talking about. Extremist Christian, Jews, Environmentalists, Animal Rights Activists, etc. are all capable of doing horrible things.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Cort

An abstract question: What would it take for apologists for Islam to admit that beliefs have consequences, and that adherence to bad beliefs tends to have bad consequences? If there was discovered a handwritten scroll, penned by Mohammed himself, which mandated that every Muslim do his best to kill redheaded women on the second tuesday after Eid, and redheaded women were subsequently murdered on that date, where would the blame fall? Would it be on scripture? Or would it be on anything but scripture? We seem to have no problem blaming fundamentalist Christian gaybashing on an adherence to Mosaic primitivism. What would it take to similarly blame for acts of Muslim violence on Quranic primitivism? After all, Islamists have no problem attributing their violence to scripture. Why should we be squeamish about it?

I don’t attribute gaybashing to all Christians any mroe than I attribute child raping to all muslims. The OP invites us to make that connection.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@magellan01

Son, the day one of your posts goes over another poster’s head is the day after amoebas start posting.

And if you had a half of a half of a half of a half of a half of a brain, you, too, would be fearful of radical Islam. Unless you don’t mind the type of activity I posted above.

And in your opinion, what is the difference between third world radical Islam and third world radical Christianity?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@villa

Well you see there are a lot of us who are afeared of radical Islam. But we are also afeared of the the rabid, racist, right. And the RRR has quite possibly more chance of impacting our lives and the lives of those we hold close. In very real ways, white Christian racist right wingers have a much greater impact on my life than radical Islam does.

Doesn’t mean I should be complacent about the potential for threat from radical Islam. But I’m keeping more of an eye on the crazies you line up with, to be honest.

When the revolution comes who do you think are going to have all the guns?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Monty

If the local Muslim authorities condemn the action as unislamic, how can you decide on your own that said action is representative of Islam?

Because it works so well with their other theories.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Champion-of-Truth

So, do any of you Islamic apologist, in-denial dhimmi brainiacs want to even attempt to rise to the challenge of showing me any Islamic state that is tolerant, free, and peaceful?

Mali? It’s a secular democracy. Regarding religious freedom, the State Department has said:

The Constitution provides for freedom of religion, and other laws and policies contributed to the generally freed practice of religion.

The Government generally respected religious freedom in practice. There was no change in the status of respect for religious freedom by the Government during the reporting period.

In terms of general freedom, Freedom House ranked Mali 2 (out of 5) in terms of political rights, and 3 (out of 5) in terms of civil liberties, and has ranked it “free”, and has been since it overthrew its dictatorship in 1991. It’s mostly peaceful, having just ended a rebellion by the Tuareg. It’s primary security threat is Al-Qaeda of the Maghreb.

Mali’s far from a perfect state. It’s poor, there’s a good deal of corruption, their prisons are bad, and there’s still slavery in some parts of the north, as well as trafficking in persons, which the government has done a terrible job of fighting. But Mali does seem to fit as tolerant, free, and peaceful.

[villa]

@Damuri_Ajashi

When the revolution comes who do you think are going to have all the guns?

What? Why do you think I said I was keeping my eyes on Magellan and his type of crazy more?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@magellan01

I commend you for being afraid of both. Good. A now a question: how does this RRR have a greater impact on your life the radical Islam you also rightly fear? From where I sit, the murderous barbarians that flew the planes into buildings on 9/11 have effected life in the U.S. more than anything in the past 60 years.

So you don’t think the Jim Crow is up there with someone flying a plane into a building?

I think 9/11 affects us because of how we reacted to it. If we hadn’t invaded Iraq, 9/11 wouldn’t have affected us nearly as much.

I was in NYC on 9/11 I had friends in those buildings on 9/11 (they all made it out) and i still don’t thik that 9/11 was as significant an event in maerican history as segregation, the Vietnam War, the assassination of MLK/JFK/RFK, or even the invention of comp0uters, cell phones and the internet.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@magellan01

Deflect. What’s next, duck? Do youreally think if the Dems had been in power that we still wouldn’t have been hugely effected by 9/11?

Republicans would have squeezed every last drop of power from the hysteria they exploited and promoted regardless of who was in the white house. Republican power SHINES when they can make people afraid.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@AshenLady

It’s a free country here and if I don’t agree with Islam or what they are about I am free to proffer my opinion and ya’ll can stuff it up your assbutts.

And people are also free to disagree with you and tell you that you are a racist idiot.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@NCDane

Addressed in previous reply, but let me add more:

I initially took one position on the issue raised by the OP:

(1) the numbers suggest mainstream Muslim homicidal depravity.

I expanded that, when I said I thought it was:

(2) likely that most terrorist recruits came from the most religiously
fundamentalist segment of Muslim society.

The correctness of (1) does not rely at all on the correctness of (2).

The correctness of (2) does not rely at all on a mathematically exact
correlation.

(1) If the numbers suggest mainstream homocidal depravity then why do the numbers vary so much ebtween muslims of different countries. Doesn’t that suggest that it might be something other than religion that is causing this bloodthirstiness?

(2) No it doesn’t require mathematically exact correlation but it does require statistically significant correlation, doesn’t it?

[elucidator]

@Champion-of-Truth

Most scholars interpret it to mean that he “fucked her”…um…let me correct myself…RAPED HER, when she was 9 years old…

Oh, really? You can prove this, of course. The “most scholars” part. Got the cites right at your fingertips, do you? Or by “most scholars”, do you mean non-Islamic scholars who’s truthiness is affirmed by their concurrence with you?

…Pedophilia is rampant in Islam, and they do it because they believe the Koran says it’s ok…

“Rampant”, you say. But, of course, you can prove this?

Thats rather a non-quantifiable term, isn’t it, a bit subjective. Is pedophilia “rampant” in the Catholic Church, or merely exists?

… I’ll respond to anything you post that addresses the facts as I did above.

How very generous! You will respond to me so long as I accept your version of the facts? The IRA didn’t commit terrorist acts? Weren’t predominately Catholic Christians? Were they atheists? Scientologists?

…I don’t care whether you believe it or not…

And yet, here you are, banging away on your little keyboard. Hour after hour, in sublime indifference. A constipated little ball of hatred, shining rays of darkness into the world.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

OK, so what? Is Islam supposed to get some kind of credit or bye
for *not *providing any solutions?

I’m not following you.

A battlefield stretching from Bali to India to Pakistan to Afghanistan to
Iraq to Turkey to Egypt to Algeria to Spain to the UK to the US must be
considered as a threat to more people problem than one limited to the
UK and another limited to Palestine, am I right?

And if someone were to equate American military activity to “Christian” military activity? I know its a different point but if you are saying that the “blast radius” caused by adherents to a religion makes it more of a cause for concern then…

Catholicism and Judaism were just about perfectly correlated with IRA
and Irgun/Lehi membership. I would say that religious texts were definitely
a root cause for the development of RC and Jewish terror.

How do youa ddress the claims taht the IRA was not religiously motivated and that many Irgun were not particularly devout Jews?

As for the pre-1948 Palestinian Jews, their 25 centuries-old scripture depicts
the land they were committing terror over as literally given to them by God,
and I do not think I need to add any more on that note.

The way it has been explained to me was that the Zionists picked palestine not so much because they themselves believed it was some sort of religious imperitive but because a new Israeli state was much more likely to attract a critical mass of jews than the creation of a Jewish state in South America.

And as I wrote before, if Muslim religious moderates are as much of a
terrorist threat as the fundamentalists that could only make the Muslim
threat worse, not better.

I think that the whole Israeli/Palestinian issue is radicalizing Muslims generally (in much the same way that the abortion issue is radicalizing Christians in America generally). I think there is some spillover effect there.

It now occurs to me to observe that although anarchist and Islamic
terror share much the same scope and method, the only Islamic enjoy
the support of hordes of useful idiot apologists in the very ranks of
their intended victims.

Once again, you seem to be conflating extremist Islam with all of islam.

Come on- that phrase was voiced by Muslims in the clear for over
60 years now.

And do you think that was codespeak for “kill all the Jooz”

You would be mistaken because besides religion all Jews share
linguistic and ethnic identity going back to Biblical times. On the
other hand the ME and Central Asia are filled with Muslim ethnic
groups whose language is Indo-European, not even in the same
family as Arabic. That includes the Iranians and the mostly Pashtun Taliban.

I thought there were Jews of all sorts of ethnicities. Does the Latin roots of the Romance languages make most of Europe share a lignuistic background that is relevant at all in any meaningful way?

You may if the generalization is reasonable.

So do you think it is reasonable to assume that all Jews are Zionists?

Conspiracies are secret and Zionism was never a secret movement.
Otherwise, is there any reason to doubt that Zionism and Israel have
benefited from the support of numerous Jews who identify with the
Jews of Israel, even if they themselves never intended to migrate to Israel.

A big diference is that the Jews did not set off bombs to further their
aims anywhere but Palestine, while the Muslims have been setting them
off all over the world.

The Palestinians didn’t set off bombs outside of paestine either… in the beginning. If Jews didn’t get what they wanted in 1948 and the UK had kept their mandate, are you really that sure that Irgun wouldn’t have set off a bomb in the london underground?

[El_Kabong]

Again, I have no particular interest in responding to the raving of a lunatic, but what the hell, might as well point out at least one factual error in our guest’s spittle-flecked rants that is pretty easily debunked:

[Quote=Champion-of-Truth]
Maybe you haven’t seen the tens of thousand, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Muslims cramming the streets celebrating the terrorist attacks of 9/11.
[/Quote]

Well, no, I didn’t, and neither did you, because there weren’t tens or hundreds of thousands of muslims cramming the streets in celebration following the 9/11 attacks. There apparently were a few demonstrations in the Palestinian Territories, but these were carried by persons who would tend to be supportive pf Palestinian nationalism, rather than Islam per se.

If someone has a citation or two to support the above poster’s gross exaggeration, have at it. We’ll see if it holds water.

[elucidator]

Egypt. Muslims marching to protect Coptic Christians. Providing themselves as human shields. May the Goddess hold them close to Her bountiful bosom for all their days, amen.

[Shot_From_Guns]

@Monty

Yes, I do like windmills. Why do you ask?

Tilt away, then, tilt away.

@AshenLady

Ijit doucheface.

Say, did anybody see what the troll did to finally get banned? Can’t be just trolling, since her [del]sock[/del] “friend” is still here.

@Monty

Well, one meaning of offal is “refuse, rubbish.” And that would include waste, wouldn’t it?

AFAIK, “offal” literally means the internal organs that are usually discarded when the animal is butchered. Thus, “offal” metaphorically means “refuse, rubbish,” but when you say “dog’s offal” it would clearly mean “dog’s organs” and not “dog’s feces.”

@elucidator

Which Christian tradition has rites for the baptism of corpses?

Mormons.

@Champion-of-Truth

Besides, anyone who has to append his girlfriend’s name to his own screen name isn’t man enough to join in the Pit.

Ooh, do me! Do me next!

@Lobohan

Okay Magellan, Champion-of-Truth is more stupid and uninformed than you are. I’m sorry for thinking you were as low as anyone can get.

Isn’t it *nice *when retarded racists make socks to argue their true feelings to avoid looking quite so much like the bigots they actually are? It shows that they at least have *some *sense of shame.

@Champion-of-Truth

I’ll quote an email someone sent me:

Oh my god, you guys, he gets emails about this shit. How can you *possibly *question the validity of his sources?!

@Tom_Scud

though I’m now slightly tempted to change mine to Champignon of Truth

I think I might change my title to “Champagne of Truth.” In fact, I think I shall!

[Tom_Scud]

@Shot_From_Guns

Say, did anybody see what the troll did to finally get banned? Can’t be just trolling, since her [del]sock[/del] “friend” is still here.

There’s a note in ATMB. In any case I don’t think Mushroom of Truth is her sock, since he’s actually capable of writing in complete sentences and seems to be able to carry forward coherent thoughts (even if they’re mostly copied & pasted from RW blogs).

Also, he’s got the whole right-wing paranoid thing going on, where Ashen was (I hang my head in shame at the association) a liberal on domestic policy issues as far as I can tell.

[Nadir]

Champion of Assholery just needs to learn the distinction between religion and people. Dude’s whacked. There’s plenty more just like him.

Be careful out there.

[VinylTurnip]

@Nadir

Champion of Assholery just needs to learn the distinction between religion and people.

True. I don’t condemn all Christians just because some of them think genocide is A-OK and that Orly Taitz is on to something.