Well, I wrote the post yesterday to reply to sach, and it didn’t go through, andwhen I finally got my phone charged I came on to repost it and while reading all the posts I got he wrong name in my head. Normally I would have had my PM window open as anoher tab to check.
Let me see if I have this straight: Boozie offs townie Cookies (who only has one vote on her, Boozie’s) and gets a tsk, tsk from sachertorte. Darth says he redirected Shadowfacts onto Sacher and Shadowfacts comes up with an evil reading. Sacher calls foul on this because it implies Darth knew in advance that Hockey Monkey was evil while totally diregarding that I suggested that sache and Hockey might both be evil last turn and Darth mentioned it in his vote post last turn. Sache decrees that misdirecting any investigation by Shadowfacts deserves the death sentence because it is such an anti-town offense. How does Sache know that Shadowfacts actually is a town investigator? I sure as hell don’t. More PIS?
To continue; Sache investigates chucara instead of curing Boozy like he said he would. But Boozy is saved anyway by MHaye who
so we wouldn’t have an extra kill on town, hahahahaha. Oh and at the end of the last turn sache was calling for the death of the guy who stole the orb. But that appears to be off the table now doesn’t it?
Then recall that sacher called out several objects on Turn one that he said no town player should have. Storyteller immediately fessed up that he had one and offered to turn it over to anyone. Boozy also said he had one, refused to say which one it was and refused to turn it in. Sache immediately deemed them both Good. He then cherry picked Boozy off the random list of investigatees for his own personal investigation. Then storyteller was bussed because he had the flu. Why does Boozie continue to get so much lee-way from sache? I AM SO NOT GETTING IT.
And chucara has apparently left the planet or the game.
In no particular order;
vote chucara
vote sachertort
vote Boozy
PS: I didn’t lie sache, I focused my chi on Turn 1, missed doing anything on Turn 2 and refocused it last turn becasue I didn’t know that it would stay focused until I did something. Pleo told me that if you performed an action on someone who ended up disintegrated it would return a result of “no action.” Boozy’s description of his Turn 1 results did not sound like a “no action” to me, hence the lying accusation.
Bah, I feel like I’m the only lawful town player playing anymore.
Your confusion does not make me scum.
- What conclusion do you want me to make about Squid? Are you implying that simply because Squid killed Cookies I should be suspicious of him? How does that make sense? You are IGNORING a large part of the game and focusing on one facet. Squid was CURSED. While Evil could have chosen to not curse during Turn Two, I find the evidence points to Evil having Cursed Squid. I had established my unwillingness to Cure ‘less helpful’ roles. This makes Squid the perfect choice for Evil. Not only does Squid’s role suck for Town, but Curing carries the risk of DEATH. To me, it makes sense for Evil to curse a Good Squid and makes no sense to pretend-curse an Evil Squid. Why not curse an Evil Squid? Because there are better choices. If Squid had survived the curse without a CURE action, everyone would have been much more suspicious of him*. Also, Evil has Chucara, Hockey Monkey, and Darth Sensitive to choose from. Don’t you think Evil would prefer burning up a Cure on an Evil fake-curse? Why curse someone whose powers will actively deter the Cleric (me) from using the cure?
Furthermore, why is it surprising to you that a pro-Town Vig (which is what Squid claims to be) took it upon himself to stab someone he (erroneously) thought was Town? Are you saying this never happens? I would agree that perhaps it shouldn’t happen, but fact is, it happens all the time! If Squid hadn’t been cursed, would I be suspicious of Squid? Hell yeah! But I can’t discard some information and only focus on the facts that support one conclusion.
*Now that I type that out, I have a teeny-tiny concern of what if MHaye and Squid are Evil. This is kind of stupid of me, but the possiblity popped up so I should state it here. I find this unlikely as that would account for 5 Evil, which doesn’t make sense given the results of last Turn’s disintegration.
-
You actually believe that a Good Townie would redirect ShadowFacts to investigate me? Would YOU do that? Why? Regardless of who did the redirecting or who was redirected, how are we, the Town, to interpret said results? We already have a hill to climb in gaining enough trust of an investigator to believe the results. If we inject another party, the redirector, into the mix, then the reading becomes even less useful, as we need to understand the alignments of both investigator and redirector to have a sound conclusion. You think this action is reasonable? Well, I don’t. Darth Sensitive’s claim makes no sense for Town to do. Furthermore, if Darth Sensitive were GOOD, he would not know that Hockey Monkey is EVIL. Therefore to Darth Sensitive (if he were good) the possibility of Hockey Monkey turning up Town was non-zero (perhaps 50-50). If Hockey Monkey turned up Good, the conclusion would have been that I am evil. What use would there be in redirecting ShadowFacts into investigating me if Hockey Monkey had tuned up Town? It would have been a wasted investigation! You would have already be prepared to kill me. That is why Darth Sensitive is clearly Evil. Why are you not able to see these simple concepts? Why is it you are so willing to peg PIS on me, but deny the existence of PIS when Darth Sensitive demonstrates perfect knowledge of Hockey Monkey’s alignment?
-
I don’t know that ShadowFact is Town, but the evidence points strongly that he is. ShadowFacts revealed Darth Sensitive to be Evil. In response Darth Sensitive made a claim that makes zero sense for a Good player to make. Therefore, I conclude that Darth Sensitive is Evil and ShadowFacts is Good. Could Both be Evil? Technically yes, but I see no reason to believe ShadowFacts would turn in a teammate like that, especially one that had not been garnering much suspicion yet. At some point you have to trust that 99% certainty is enough. Otherwise you are freezing yourself into a paralyzed state.
-
What you call PIS, I call deduction. You seem to revel in being mired in confusion and lash out at anyone who reaches a conclusion that you don’t agree with.
-
I told the Town to kill someone with two items because I was certain that Evil had picked up items and was being silent about it. MHaye does not get my wrath this turn because it was revealed that Hockey Monkey had lifted the Amulet (anti-Town) item, leaving only the Orb of Healing (pro-Town) item in the mix. I also gave reasoning with numbers and everything, that showed that the probability of Squid living given MHaye’s Orb action is higher than Squid trying to save himself alone. That is, the evidence suggests that MHaye did use the Orb, which is a pro-Town action. And now you are suspicious of me for NOT being suspicious of MHaye? WTF! New information means moving on. Like, I don’t know, maybe putting aside your feverish Turn One suspicion and actually reading the game with an open mind. Yes, I know you were suspicious of me on Turn One, but you know what? You’ve got to learn to let things go and read the game without crazy bias. I handed you Hockey Monkey on a Plate. I’m giving you Chucara too. You need to temper your paranoia. Explain to me how Evil benefits from my telling you that Hockey Monkey is Evil. You seriously would do that move if you were Evil? Really?!
You know what? I can’t read your mind. You come in here railing about how Squid is a liar without explaining why you feel that way. What did you expect me to conclude from your remarks? You imply that you know that Squid didn’t try and kill zuma. Is it really so hard to believe that I would guess that your accusation stems from you seeing Squid do something else. Because, quite frankly, seeing Squid target someone other than zuma is a much stronger case.
Someone had claimed to have targeted storyteller on the Turn he died. I would like input from that individual regarding Sinjin’s accusation.
Take a breath sach, you’re getting worked up again 
I think it is more likely that you are Town than Scum, but the above is not as convincing as you think it is. 1. You “giving us” Chucara means nothing until we know his actual alignment. 2. **Hockey Monkey **had already taken quite a bit of heat from me before you fingered her as Evil. It is completely within reason that an Evil sach bussed an Evil Hockey, figuring she’d be a target anyway, and gaining you cred. I don’t think that’s likely, mind you, but it is not so outlandish as you make it seem above given the situation at the time.
I’m just trying to get a handle on where we are, so I’m posting this:
- Elf Magic-User Hawkeyeop (supposedly investigated by ShadowFacts as Lawful Good)
- Human Thief Darth Sensitive (supposedly investigated by ShadowFacts as Chaotic Evil)
- Human Bard MHaye
- Dwarf Paladin Zsofia
- Halfling or Gnome Magic-User ShadowFacts
- Elf Monk sinjin
- Elf Cleric Chucara (supposedly investigated by sachertorte as Evil)
- Half-Elf Cleric sachertorte
- Half-Elf Assassin Boozahol Squid, P.I.
02. Half-Orc Illusionist tdpatriots12 Cursed Turn One and died Turn Two
04. Chaotic Good Human Druid ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies killed by physical attack Turn Three
07. Half-Elf Fighter storyteller0910 Disintegrated Turn Two
08. Chaotic Good Halfling or Gnome Paladin Blaster Master Disintegrated Turn One
11. Chaotic Good Halfling or Gnome Ranger zuma Disintegrated Turn One
13. Lawful Evil Dwarf Thief Hockey Monkey Disintegrated Turn Three
I’m not saying that I’m confirmed town or anything like that. I’m asking for those who think that I could be Evil to put themselves in the situation they describe and honestly see themselves turning in a fellow Evil, and then turning right around and turning in another Evil. Look at the situation: I handed in an Evil. If the plan was to milk that for townie cred, then why would I tell you Chucara is Evil! If Chucara is Evil, then I’ve given you TWO Evil. You really think Evil would do that? And If Chucara is Good, then I would have blown all credibility that handing Hockey Monkey in gave me. If my ultimate goal was to get a Chucara killed, then why would I give you Hockey Monkey first?
It makes no sense whatsoever!
You ever read Mafia II, and try to make sense of storyteller’s actions in that game? 
Well excuse me for playing, I didn’t realize this was the sachertorte game and that everything that drops from your keyboard was a pearl of truth and wisdom. You are so totally, absolutely sure about everything and everybody and that everyone must do as you say. You have been this way since the start of Turn one and it’s why I am still on your case.
Boozy is one case in point. You have been sure that he is Good since day one even though he told you to piss off about turning in his sachertore proscribed item and wouldn’t even say what it was. Even his killing Cookies when we were possibly at lynch or lose leaves you unconcerned.
Story is another. You were sure he was Good, until he got the flu and you bussed him for lurking. Pretty convenient if you’re Evil.
And now we have Darth. He never said he knew that Hockey was Evil. You are putting words in his mouth. He said he was unsure. He said it last turn and he said it this turn but you are completely ignoring that. I also said it last turn and called it to your attention again in my previous post, but you have ignored that as well in order to castigate me.
And yeah I might have used the rod to get the investigation that I wanted if I had it. Because I don’t know if you, or Chucara or Shadowfacts are Good.
And I don’t know that Boozy was actually cursed. Mhaye’s using the orb on him proves nothing.
I’ll be responsible for dealing with my votes at end of day.
Scum would never do that.
No, I don’t. But I don’t know what Evil knows, what items they have, or if they have some kind of plan. Just because it doesn’t make sense to me, doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense to Evil. I still think the chances of you being Evil are low, but I’m not ruling it out, and nobody should. I would be voting for Chucara if he wasn’t already 1 vote ahead of Darth Sensitive. I’m gunning for Darth today, as I trust my own investigation 100%. I would prefer to Disintegrate them both.
sinjin, I suggest you take a breath also. Just because someone criticizes your theories, doesn’t mean they are “castigating” you. It’s a game, man. (Trust me, I’m speaking from “getting over-heated” experience here - you are doing yourself no favors by getting worked up). If you want to convince me that sach is scum - and I am willing to be convinced - don’t paraphrase him. You seem to be saying that he has contradicted himself several times this game - I’d like to see it. Link me to the posts where he does that and let me evaluate. I will take your case seriously if you make it with posted evidence.
I, for one, am shocked. Is this supposed to make us think you are pro-Town?
Which is fine, and I have no problem with. The caveat that I could be Evil is much different than sinjin voting for me. Voting for me states that sinjin thinks I’m Evil and should be killed. This is much different than stating “Well I’m not convinced about sachertorte; I’m keeping an eye on him.”
Sinjin has concluded that I am Evil and Darth Sensitive is not. Sinjin feels that Darth Sensitive redirecting ShadowFacts to me is perfectly reasonable and therefore I’m Evil. Yeah, I’m blowing a gasket over this one. I cannot fathom how someone could think that using the Staff of Command to redirect an investigation is pro-Town. I’m baffled, flabbergasted. Faint even!
BTW, do we have specific people to monitor Chucara’s and Darth Sensitive’s votes tomorrow? I’d like to establish the tie as early as possible so that there is a minimum of voting during the last few hours.
Right now, of the 7 players who are neither Chucara nor Darth Sensitive, Three are voting for both, three are voting for one, and one (MHaye) is not voting at all.
If anyone would like to take on the responsibility for mirroring Darth Sensitive, then you should be voting for both Chucara and Darth Sensitive since Darth is not voting for either. (I have a meeting in the morning, but I should be free at 3PM EST tomorrow to monitor Chucara).
- We need to identify the player who will Mirror Darth Sensitive
- ShadowFacts, Hawkeyeop, and sinjin either should vote for both or explicitly state their intention not to vote for both.
- MHaye should also either vote for both or explicitly state his intensions regarding the vote.
Let’s avoid surprises tomorrow. Okay?
At some point we should “lock” the vote; as in further changes will not be looked upon favorably.
It actually looks like I will be available at 3PM EST tomorrow, so I can try to outfox Darth. But if I vote for Chucara at the moment, it takes him 2 votes more than Darth, which I would prefer not to do. I can always unvote, of course, but I’d really like to see some more Darth votes out there!
If you are the one mirroring Darth, then you must have your vote be the inverse of Darth’s vote. I suggest you vote for chucara for now and wait for the others to push Darth into a tie. If you abstain for now, then the vote will look artificially even when it is really unbalanced. Give everyone this evening to vote and make their long term intentions clear. Then we can deal with what we have in the morning.
Fair enough.
Vote Chucara
I’ve been busy at work and just got back from a trip so I haven’t had a chance to answer you Shadowfacts, but the above quote is so BS I can’t believe it. That is not in any shape or form why I think sachertort is Evil and he knows it.
I have no idea why Darth appears to have blown off the game, maybe he’s just given up and feels like Evil is going to just steam-roll over Town for the win. Two lynches today and an axe or the sword and it’s all over.
It’s perfectly reasonable when you have three investigators and have no idea if any of them are pro-town. Especially when one of them secretly gets results on Turn 2 but doesn’t bother to share them til Turn 3, two of them don’t get any results for two turns, one goes walk-about and then suddenly w00t three scum are found instantaneously. Why is that so hard to understand? Forgive me for being doubtful.
sacher on Evil cursing Evil turn one:
sacher on Evil cursing Evil Squid today:
One of these things is not like the other.
Deep breath.
Its hard to understand because you fail to use names. You are welcome to be doubtful, but you should also state where your doubt leads you.
If an investigator is not pro-Town, then redirecting them does no good. How is redirecting an Evil ShadowFacts going to yield information positive to the Town? Just saying something is reasonable does not show reasoning.
Case One: ShadowFacts is Evil and sachertorte is Good. (Darth Sensitive is Good and redirected)
Result: ShadowFacts lies and says Darth Sensitive is Evil. We lynch Darth. But then he turns up Good. Oh no! Now what? Do we conclude that sachertorte is Evil because Darth said he redirected ShadowFacts onto sachertorte Or do you lynch Shadowfacts for being wrong? Okay, now you’ve had to lynch two Townies to discover that ShadowFacts is Evil. If Darth had not redirected, we would know immediately after Darth’s death that ShadowFacts was Evil. Thus redirecting is Anti-Town.
Case Two: ShadowFacts is Good and sachertorte is Evil. (Darth Sensitive is Good and redirected)
Result: ShadowFacts erroneously thinks Darth Sensitive is Evil. We lynch Darth, but then he turns up Good. Do we lynch ShadowFacts for being wrong or sachertorte for being the target of the redirect? You might lynch Good or Evil, but the redirect has obscured the data. Furthermore, had Darth Not redirected, he would have been found Good and not lynched the previous Turn. Again, clearly anti-Town.
Sinjin, if you think I’m Evil, why are you voting for Chucara?