Sinjin, for some insane reason you think that “Surely survivors of a curse are more likely to be Good, but we must remain aware that they could still be Evil,” and my concluding that Squid is Good based on the circumstances of the game are incompatible.
They are not. I explain why I think Evil cursing an Evil Squid is an unlikely scenario. You quote this explanation in your “case” against me. Two statements: Evil cursing evil is a viable tactic. I find it unlikely that Evil cursing evil is the case with Squid. One is general, one is specific. I state that in the specific case of Squid, I conclude that Evil-curse-Evil is unlikely. Are you suggesting that Evil curse evil everytime? What has to happen for me to be allowed to conclude that an evil-curse-evil has not happened? Am I ever able to conclude that Evil-curse-evil has not occurred?
Even if the two statement were inconsistent, inconsistency does not equate to scum. Your entire case against Cookies was based on similar reasoning, that Cookies stated one thing at one time then changed her mind and stated something that ran counter (to you) to what she said before. Cookies was not Evil.
Inconsistencies are the mark of HUMANS. It has nothing to do with Good or Evil.
I did state where my doubt could lead me. It could lead me in the same direction it lead Darth. He probably didn’t think it all the way thru and just wanted to know if one of you (sacher) were Evil. He expressed his doubts of you in the last turn. We all expect someone to follow in story’s boots and bus his buddies one of these days.
However, if I were Evil and I had the staff of command I would point it at someone Good on the chance that one of my scum buddies was about to be investigated. If both Chucara and Darth are Evil and you (sacher) are Good why would Darth not redirect you to a Good person? Especially since I was giving you such a hard time last Turn about investigating Hockey Monkey instead of Chucara?
Please note: I “secretly” got results on Turn One, not Turn Two. Turn Two I was an idiot who forgot to get his action in. And you seem to be impugning my strategy by saying I “didn’t bother” to share my results, but I think you will find that most people with an investigator capability will try to gather info quietly then reveal in a block when it is more advantageous. Cops are best kept hidden to do their work for a while, so they don’t get killed too soon. I realize that the Ring didn’t make me a cop, but I felt the situations were suitably analogous.
Incorrect. I did not “not get any results for two turns”. I failed on Turn One. But succeeded on Turn Two and Turn Three. I have reported each of my results as I received them.
I can accept sinjin’s most recent comment about Darth. It’s more emotional rather than logical. That I can deal with.
Why are you so certain that Darth Sensitive has the capability to redirect anyone? He says he has the Staff of Command; but he could be lying. In fact, I think he is.
I’ve had on and off bouts with Staff Paranoia. I targeted Chucara on Turn One; MHaye confirms seeing me fail at something to Chucara (evidence that I was not redirected). On Turn Two I investigated Hockey Monkey. No one claims to have seen me do anything on Turn Two, but we’ve killed Hockey Monkey and Hockey Monkey was Evil. If I was redirected, I was redirected to someone Evil (unlikely that I was redirected at all, in my estimation). On Turn Three I investigated Chucara; Zsofia confirms that she saw me do something magical to Chucara on Turn Three. I am reasonably confident that I have never been hit by the Staff of Command. I even question its existence.
Also: My bit about inconsistencies is the view that mafia isn’t about finding inconsistencies in opinion. Town opinions will change. Human opinions will change. Applying one set of ideals to one player and then a different set to another is inconsistent, but not necessarily scummy. Inconsistencies do not equate to scumness. Humans are hypocritical beings, so accusing someone of being inconsistent/hypocrite doesn’t say much about alignment. More detail is required.
Scum are found in the positions they take and the motivations for their actions. Inconsistencies are the realm of everyone.
I know **sach **already responded to these quotes, but I want to respond as well since you posted them at my request. (Thanks). Looking them over, they absolutely do not say what you think they say. In fact, IMO, they show someone being totally consistent and straightforward.
The first quote says, in essence: Evil cursing Evil is a viable ploy, so while it’s not likely, we should keep and eye out for it.
The second quote says, in essence: I’ve considered the possibility that Evil cursed Evil (Squid), but for these reasons (1, 2, 3) I don’t think it makes sense. Therefore I think it more likely that **Squid **is Town.
What’s the problem? IMO, there is nothing at all suspicious there and you are grasping at air (with regard to these quotes, at least).
Since I haven’t done anything to get any results on, dumb focusing chi thing:smack:, I don’t know when people get their results. I assumed that if you investigated on Turn 1 you got the results on Turn 2. I understand what you are saying about being a cop in a normal game and with-holding your results. However I still think it was a mistake in a fast game like this at best and anti-town or even Evil at worst.
Sinjin, for some insane reason you think that “Surely survivors of a curse are more likely to be Good, but we must remain aware that they could still be Evil,” and my concluding that Squid is Good based on the circumstances of the game are incompatible.
[QUOTE]
I think you have been giving Squid the benefit of the doubt thru-out the game. A benefit that you denied storyteller and a benefit that you are currently denying Darth. Your reasons for why Evil would not curse an Evil Squid can be exactly reversed to be reasons why Evil would curse and Evil Squid.
I’ve just gone over the kerfuffle surrounding the various claims near the start of the Turn.
Considering Sachertorte’s reported claim first, the allegation makes no sense to me if Chucara is Good. A Good Sacherorte wouldn’t lie. An Evil Sachertorte might lie; but if the Evil are so close to winning that they can afford to throw a Good Chucara under a bus knowing that Sachertorte would be a goner in Turn 5, they were close enough to win for Sach to do this last Turn instead of bussing HM. Thus I would suggest that it makes no sense to allow the Good players another Turn to put it together.
Evil Sach bussing an Evil Chucara for Good cred is plausible; but that makes Chucara Evil whatever Sach’s moral alignment, so it’s safe to conclude Chucara is a bad boy.
Vote Chucara.
Darth Sensitive’s claim makes no sense to me if he is Good. The simpple question is this. What grounds does Darth have for knowing he can trust ShadowFacts? If Darth is Good, he has no reason to believe ShadowFacts is Good. So how did he knows ShadowFacts would report his findings truthfully (or even if there were findings)? it suggests that Darth too is Evil.
Vote Darth Sensitive.
I will very likely be online in the runup to the end of Turn; it’s 8pm my time.
Hawkeyeop, I thought that I’d already said what my ethical alignment was, but it’s possible I did not spell it out.
Just a suggestion; you could, this Turn, try to Watch three people at once.
By my estimation, this gives you a 50/50 chance to see what the first subject does, and a 1-in-6 chance that you can see what the second and third people do.
You have about two chances in three of coming up with some information Tomorrow; what someone did to who. At best, you might manage three reports.
Uh no, I have a 1/6 chance of seeing what three people did if I use my Monky power according to what pleo told me. I totally didn’t/don’t understand how the chi works. And who would believe anything I said at this point anyway.
My item didn’t get blown into the hoard so I guess I will just place it in there tonight. I’ll tell you upfront it’s the potion of speed so somebody doesn’t accuse me of lying tomorrow.
Sinjin, don’t misunderstand me.
This game is exceedingly complex, and it is a ruleset that we haven’t played before. You know well enough that many games wind up being won or lost based on power-roles. I don’t mean to say that anyone is superfluous, only that this game is hinging on Turn Actions, rather than more traditional methods. It’s the game; not you.
For what it’s worth, while obviously “scum would never do that” is a fallacy, I just dont think sachertorte’s actions make sense at all if he isn’t town.
I agree we should try to lynch them both. I am hoping that **Hawkeye **will come back and vote for Darth. He says at the top of the page that he thinks **Darth **is scum, so I’m feeling optimistic about that (I’m surprised he hasn’t done it already, actually, given that post).
If so, please don’t - it’s extremely anti-town.