I must say, this is most fascinating and instructive. It’s really an honor to read, as the situation develops, the posts in summary of relationships you all have out there. I’m a convert.
Also, I hope this isn’t an intrusion.
Beagle, that is a remarkably seductive post you’ve laid out. I would have hamfistedly slogged through “what if the lines are blurred?”
Is it possible people become increasingly provocative because of the thrill? Let me explain my question: for quite some time, out of a misunderstanding of the rules, I’d been thinking I was going to be banned. When after a day of frantic reading of the rules, I discovered I’d been wrong. But that was one of the most active, exciting times on the Board so far and I’ve been simply delighted to still be around. So I was cleaning the cat boxes when it hit me: how long will it take for my behavior to degrade?
You find a hot button and over time just keep hitting it, always pressing the boundaries because you’re clever and well-spoken. I’ve not experienced a Collounsbury rant, but his unfolding posts were like watching dark silk slip across a woman’s thigh. Maybe he was an anomaly.
I know manhattan has been a mod. Anyone else out there? How do you discuss these things? Do you type really softly? Or is it more like every time you go out with your buddy Dave he gets in a fistfight with some random fellow in the bar? Do you stay faithful to Dave or do you just let the friendship die out? At least the bannees (meh) here got a warning or two or dozen. You’re not setting a good example for morons like Mr. B.
Maybe it was a political thing. But if the Board is known to be liberal, baiting liberals isn’t exactly the right thing to do. And it’s definitely not right to boot members simply for their political stances.
I am very pleased to be part of this group. It’s made a difference in my life and has afforded a great deal of knowledge. Thank you all.
Y’know, I don’t really post a lot in GD, but I do lurk, so I’ve read my share of December threads. Seems to me that with his constant barrage of dippy OPs and questionable facts, December was constantly intertwining reasonable conservative positions with abject stupidity. I imagine he single-handedly convinced more people of the correctness of liberal thought than any two or three left-wing posters you could name. I don’t quite understand his defenders; the SDMB Conservatives ought to be delighted that December was banned. Makes their job a lot easier.
Anecdote: I used to work with a very religious Fundamentalist Christian back in the late 80s/early 90s. We would discuss religion occasionally, not a lot, and he was actually pretty receptive to views differing from his own. Anyway, one day he started bitterly complaining about the treatment Jim Bakker received from the government (Bakker was convicted of defrauding donors to his PTL ministries), how he was hounded and persecuted because he was a Christian.
“But Bakker took advantage of people just like you” I pointed out. “He took money from good Christian people, he used your faith against you, to enrich himself. He turned who knows how many people away from Christianity due to his greed. I would think you’d want him in jail and out of the ministry so good people could step in in his stead.”
But no, my co-worker was convinced that the good Christian Bakker needed to be defended from the anti-Christian government. Didn’t matter what he did, the real reason he was persecuted was for being Christian.
And that’s exactly how some people see December. December would roll in and post a, shall we say, checkered OP; whatever its merits were, stellar or stupid, he knew some people would defend him. He took advantage of you guys. And yet, despite his faults and the damage he did to his own side of the debate, some people still want him out there, ministering to the flock.
Well, Mr. B, I reckon if you keep your head screwed on in Great Debates (Collounsbury) and don’t post the same topic over and over like a, well, troll (december) you’ll survive. There are only so many times you want to poke at sleeping leftists. Best to let them sleep it off.
Also, remember this one, there is no edit posts feature.
Say what? Gay (and conservative) poster here who’s been Pitted for my opinions lots. Shit, maybe I should have flashed my gay Get Out of Pit Free card.
And apparently you missed the whole Gang of Four mess after the 2000 elections when anti-Bush liberals got their asses banned for being massive jerks.
And in any event, Shodan you are not a conservative, but a reactionary.
Stop being a crybaby.
I’ve been thinking about what pisses me off about December’s banning.
Because as you say, he wasn’t exactly a great asset. A lot of the time when I’d read an OP of his I’d roll my eyes and think, “Well, thanks for giving them THAT ammo…” And certainly he was warned and kept doing what he was doing, because towards the end I just don’t think he gave a shit.
But here’s what bugs me: The mods essentially allowed December to be run out of here, and they continually allow certain other posters to shit all over people at will. Since when is the rule, “don’t be a jerk, unless the other guy is really stupid?” But the fact is, those pile-on parties would go on for days and the mods would say nothing, while other people would get warned for much more mild personal attacks.
The fact is, it’s hard to debate in GD these days without being attacked, sneered at, called names, etc. And I just don’t have the stomach for it. I used to marvel at the shit december would take without retaliating. I can’t do that, and I find it distasteful to respond in kind.
So lately, I’ve just found Great Debates a very unpleasant place to be, and December’s banning was a symptom of how bad its gotten, because the fact that he was abused mercilessly seems to have been glossed over in this whole episode.
I’ve certainly done my share of whining about this, and that’s probably inappropriate as well. So maybe it’s time to consider doing what Elvis keeps goading me to do and leave this place. Great Debates, anyway. Life is too short. Maybe I’ll just lurk for a while and see if things improve over time.
Bleeding-heart leftist liberal checking in. Pardon me, I mean, bleeding-heart-leftist liberal who didn’t think the war was wrong checking in.
No, I didn’t. I even started a GD thread asking for people to convince me that it was wrong. I couldn’t see why it was, because my belief that the war was not as godawful as most other liberals believed it was confused me. My leftist leanings versus my support for the war itself (not just the soldiers, but the war) made my two-volt brain go kablooie.
As for december… really. Y’all are better off without him. The extremists (on BOTH sides, not just the conservatives) make the majority look bad. Most liberals and most conservatives KNOW that those on the other side of the political fence don’t suck as humans, and aren’t complete morons. We differ in opinion, we argue about those differences…but we know that the Other Side wants the same thing…a better world to live in. For everybody. How we get there is the sticking point. But MOST liberals and MOST conservatives are clear-headed and reasonable enough to actually work together to achieve that goal.
december was an extreme. SO extreme that it affected is actual behavior on these boards. Extreme viewpoints on these boards don’t get you banned. But when said extreme viewpoints cause you to engage in behaviors that break the rules of this board…you’ve got trouble. Liberal, Conservative, or otherwise.
I don’t post much at all, when I do it’s usually brief and pointed but I agree with Scylla. December is gone, move on… and at the very least we won’t have to read the plethora of leftist screeds compulsively typed in response to every tiresome thread he ever wrote about anything.
Maybe so but I’m kind of glad you did. Now I know it wasn’t just me thinking it…there’s strong disagreement and then there’s abuse, enough said. (I actually have no opinion specifically on his banning because of that though, all things considered.) After all that we got to read of it I think people can put up with a few complaints on his behalf without suffering any permanent damage, ya think?
I rarely read the december threads, because I saw early on that it usually just ended up being a shitstorm.
I feel like I’ve been left blissfully in the dark, because I just didn’t get sucked into it all. I also feel like I’ve been “left out,” because I don’t know which version of events to believe, and I don’t have the patience to go look up old threads and spend hours reading them. (One thing I do remember noticing the few times I was paying attention—people just got in such a tizzy over december. Some of it I thought was over the top. It seemed to have gotten to the point where if december sneezed, they’d have found a reason to have a fit over it.)
Anyway, in closing I wanted to say: Sam Stone, I hope you don’t leave. Well, stay away from GD if you like, but don’t leave the boards. You’re a bright fellow and I daresay a lot of us enjoy reading what you have to say. I’d really be sad to see you go. The board needs intelligent, reasonable conservatives, and I consider you to be one of them.
Much of the blame for this lies at december’s feet. It’s absurd to expect the liberals to stand about like do nothing Neville Chamberlins in the face of december’s constant trolling. Did you honestly think that none of his mayhem would find reflection in the other interactions between liberals and december’s conservative supporters ? Your continued support of his trollery helped bring about the very acrimony which you now claim to have little stomach for. With december gone it’s now possible for GD to develop a slightly less confrontational atmosphere, but no, you’ve got to whine and whine and then whine some more over how unfair the whole banning was. Get over it, and let the healing begin.
