Well, there’s always the pit if you’re really that angry. You might want to read up on what the fallacy of the excluded middle actually is before you pit this though, because you quoted that from me but what you wrote doesn’t seem related to it. Also, I’ll just warn you that it’s kind of doubtful that anything you angrily write in support of cheating is going to make me suddenly consider it OK. Especially since you’re basing it on ‘majority opinion.’
If majority rules, why are you limiting to this country when there’s a world full of 7 billion people to answer to? After all, if we’re going to use simple majority, we need to count all the people in areas with laws and/or customs that punish adultery with death or other extremely harsh penalties. I don’t actually know what 50% of the world thinks on adultery, but odds are that if you compile figures it’s not going to support either one of us.
Also, support for gay marriage was a minority opinion in this country for the first two decades I could vote, but I don’t think it was a shame that I felt my position was better than the majority even then.
I also think this goes too far. Especially the assumed sexism. OK as a secondary theme a person might be asked or ask themselves whether they’d feel the same in a hypothetical where instead the wife was their friend and the cheater…a tough hypothetical because opposite sex friendship isn’t typically the same. But unless the person answered that hypothetical with ‘of course I’d tell the husband in that case, she’s a cheating s—, that’s different !’ I don’t see a reason to assume that sexism or sex equality is part of the picture here. That assumption weakens you argument IMO.
Personally I think a strong bias toward MYOB is just long evolved human wisdom. Getting involved in other people’s romantic relationships doesn’t work out on average for anyone involved.
But a strong bias, not an absolute rule. And there is an issue how much the person has already gotten involved, in effect, by remaining the friendship as this information has arisen on various occasions, how many, how many discussions.
Also I think various people would naturally answer this based on their own friendships. No friendship I’ve had in adult life except my own wife and blood relatives, which are obviously different situations, has been close enough that this would present any dilemma to me. At the first hint of such a situation I would drop the person. It would never get to the point of a discussion of the details except in ‘too much information’ mode, which I’d tell the person right to their face. This personal history and outlook is probably among the reasons I find the idea of looking up somebody’s spouse and telling them their spouse is cheating to be bizarre. OTOH someone thinking of a different friendship relationship, then I can see them being perhaps more conflicted.
A friend of a sibling of mine was cheating, spouse found out, killed themselves on the spot. I don’t know if my sibling knew of the cheating beforehand, and definitely wasn’t the one who told the suicide about it. But anyway I agree this is not far fetched.
Now, the anti-MYOB side could respond I suppose with an even greater presumed burden that you have to inform the spouse and in a way that reduces this risk, because even if you don’t they may find out in a more shocking way with even greatly likelihood of harming themselves or others. But I think it gets pretty far fetched pretty fast. MYOB wrt to others’ romantic relationships is a good general rule. It has stood the test of time. There can be exceptions.
I understand what you are saying but if that were the case I couldn’t talk to half my family. Probably not 1/2 my friends either. So that standard unrealistic for me.
When my ex was cheating on me, our neighbors knew because he was having her over to our house when I was gone. Kind of a strange situation–they were more than just neighbors–our circles overlapped in a few different ways: 1) Next door neighbors 2) Wife taught at my kids’ preschool 3) Wife was best friends with my parents’ best friends’ son. So we saw each other on a regular basis, both in day-to-day life and at social events like parties, etc., Though I wouldn’t say we ever grew to the point of being close friends, we were definitely very friendly acquaintances.
I found out after the fact (via mutual friends) that they saw what my ex was doing, even confronted him about it, but never said a word to me. I kind of understand it–they didn’t want to get involved, all the myob stuff that’s been written about here. It still hurts, though, knowing that they knew and didn’t tell me. I certainly didn’t have a clue at the time (which, in hindsight was kind of idiotic of me but I was stressed with taking care of two kids under the age of four while dealing with a prolonged illness and I just didn’t have headspace to even suspect him of it.) Now all our interactions are awkward as hell. Thank goodness they moved so at least I don’t have to see them EVERY day like I used to.
Anyway…I realize every situation is different, YMMV, etc. But I vote tell her.
Sorry to hear. I think it highlights something implicit in a lot of the conflicting answers but not debated directly. I don’t know about theoretical moral basis, but practically a key element would seem the potential whistleblower’s relationship with the cheated-on spouse. In your case, my natural reaction is that your silent neighbors were in the wrong, in fulfilling their responsibility to you in the relationship they had with you. My first impression in OP’s case is different in part because he said his friend, v spouse who is not his friend. Perhaps some theoretical moral argument can be made why that doesn’t matter, but I personally don’t see it. If I come across two people ‘in flagrante’ in an ally and later say to myself ‘wait, I know them, vaguely’, saying I have some obligation to research whether they are married to other people and tell the spouses seems ridiculous. Clearly that’s being a busybody, IMO. It seems to me the relationship if any with the cheated-on person is a highly relevant aspect in whether to tell them.
I do think there is an obligation in this sort of case as originally described in OP: you have a real relationship with the cheater, and they’re telling you they’re cheating. It’s to tell that person quietly they are doing wrong, and to drop them as a friend if they don’t rectify it. An obligation to be a whistleblower to the spouse is a higher hurdle IMO, and will depend in part on whether one has any relationship with that person. Just ‘that person has a right to know’ is not necessarily sufficient IMO. But I agree it’s not subject to any absolute rule for every situation.
So now the ‘excluded middle’ doesn’t meet your standards either? At what point do you slice that YOU AREN’T the problem? You’re up to 50% now… but now you discount the middle to boil it down to two choices.
So you are the 25% dictating to the 75%? Are you the 20% dictating to the 80%? The 10% dictating to the 90%? The 5% dictating to the 95%?
Tell us This, before I get to the point where I just don’t care about a single thing you say: Re: what You want/demand us all to do… at what small % that encompasses both you and your ego does the rest of America get to turn and tell YOU where to get off about matters that don’t concern you?
Asked by somebody who Doesn’t cheat (and you can drag the lying whore out here by the pony-tail who dares to say my DNA has ever been near her, Inside or Out).
I may not cheat, but I Sure As Hell won’t give YOU any say in how I live my life.
If you look at this cheating situation from a possible life lesson that needs to be learned by the wife or visas versa, by the husband. Then the decision to stay out of it becomes clear.
Sure there may be heart breaks. But, what don’t break you makes you stronger. The cheating guy will get his rightful lesson as well. If I were this guys friend. I would just observe and do nothing.
Speaking as a poster here for the moment, I think you might take a step back here and catch your breath. I’m not reading Pantastic’s posts the way you seem to be, and I’m not sure what the cause for anger is, here. I read the “warn you” as a figure of speech, not some sort of threat. And again, speaking as a poster, I don’t think “majority rules” is much of a standard to go by.
The person who ultimately told me that my ex-wife was involved with someone else was my ex-wife. I have no idea if anyone else knew, but I would have appreciated the knowledge if someone had shared it with me. I also wouldn’t have held someone responsible if they’d chosen not to get involved, but I’m not going to shoot the messenger if someone is concerned about me/my relationship and feels a need to share.
As a side note, the white-hot moral outrage being expressed in the thread is really quite interesting to me; I can’t help but wonder if it’s partly a cultural thing.
Obviously cheating on one’s spouse is bad and not to be actively encouraged etc, but I’m having trouble understanding what it is about marriage that evokes this desire to get involved in something that’s reallly no-one else’s business, especially given the potentially extraordinarily serious unforeseen consequences.
Well, I would for one would like to know if my spouse is having an affair or series of affairs. Then it would be up to me to act on that information. I won’t go into detail but let’s say I speak from experience.
I had a good friend in grad school, who was getting very serious about his girlfriend, who I also knew and liked a lot. I found out that she was cheating on him (long soap opera) and it was awkward as hell to share the hearsay that I had. And I made it clear that it was hearsay (also turned out to be true). His eventual wife, not the girlfriend, thanked me.
It’s hard to say if the spouse wants to know or cares. There are certainly examples of public figures who stay together even though the entire planet knows sexual fidelity is not a deal breaker.
However, most people marry into a monogamous relationship and cheating has a number of consequences. One is the obvious issue of disease. HIV isn’t the only disease. Others diseases may lead to sterility.
The other consequence is the destructive force of betrayal. It’s a devastating thing to have the person you love betray you. The longer this goes on the less time there is to fix it through divorce and it damages every relationship going forward.
Betrayal is not limited to his wife. It affects everyone he knows and it extends to any children that he may be responsible for.
So for those who say it’s none of your business consider how you would feel if it was your sister involved and you discovered he did this for 30 years.
To me this suggests the variable I mentioned before, what’s the potential whistle blower’s relationship to the cheated on spouse? If the cheater was my friend and the cheated on spouse my sibling, of course I’d tell my sibling. If the cheater was a vague acquaintance, the cheated on spouse just somebody I knew existed (I just know the acquaintance is married), there’s no way I’d insert myself into the situation, even if the cheated on spouse’s sibling, whose existence I might not even know, might wish it otherwise.
I don’t know where the line is where my relationship with the cheated on spouse creates a whistle blowing obligation, but I can’t see the convincing argument that the extent of that relationship makes no difference. Can anyone make it?
It’s not something about marriage, it’s something about HIV, herpes, gonorrhea, reproductive decisions . . .
I suppose it is about marriage in that the vast VAST majority of marriages include the understanding that it is safe to stop worrying about these things. It is fairly safe to assume that she isn’t in the mindset of keeping herself safe from STDs anymore, she’s in a long-term marriage, which, given the friend’s “confession” to the OP, clearly included an agreement of fidelity.
The white-hot moral outrage, at least on my part, is about leaving this poor woman ignorant of the risk in her life. Most of us single girls are carefully protecting ourselves throughout our single lives, trying to make sure none of these germs or viruses get a chance to infect us.
This woman is being robbed of the right to protect herself. She is being robbed of the right to also date around if she so chooses. She is being robbed of the right to determine whether she wants to continue in this relationship given the unilateral change he’s made to their agreement.
If someone, say, her brother, were continually robbing her house, and she had no idea. Would you " - stay out of it?" - shame anybody who clued her in for “Sticking their nose into it?” - prioritize the avoidance of a bad outcome for the miscreant (jail/divorce) over the bad outcome for her? (lost money/lost health)
When you really look at it, the possible bad outcome for her substantially outweighs the possible bad outcome for him.
I don’t see how anyone can justify not telling her.