Yes, some men cheat because they are sick and twisted. My husband is not. I’m not sure where you are getting this based on what I’ve told you, but it’s not true. Our relationship is not a constant power struggle. I’m sorry that yours was.
You need to remember, though, that power can corrupt—even otherwise decent people can be susceptible. IMO/IME if person A does something he/she shouldn’t, that person B allows, the respect can start to suffer. I’ve been on both sides of that equation.
Ridiculously extrapolated example: the Nazis. When bullies have success, they become bolder and bolder in part because they lose all respect for those who won’t stand up to them. It’s a lot subtler in marriages, but it’s there nonetheless.
Probably I’m over-identifying because of my own issues. That said, lobotomyboy63 nailed it with his bully analogy. When I cheated, I knew exactly what I was doing, and getting my girlfriend to stay with me as I took advantage was part of the point.
@skald: I’d bet it’s a gradual process, isn’t it? You lose a little more respect each time until it turns you into a tyrant.
I’d also add that the process doesn’t require you to be a genius. A related story: doctors told my sister that she couldn’t get pregnant. She’d always wanted one, but it just wasn’t in the cards for her. And then, somehow, without really “trying,” she became pregnant.
Well, talk about a joyful moment! And when she had the baby, she was supermom. That kid couldn’t get out a second whimper before she was right there with a bottle, fresh diaper, etc.
But eventually, my sister pushed herself SOOOO hard that she ended up with pneumonia.
My point is that you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to manipulate people. Understanding a little cause-and-effect can go a long way. If a newborn baby can manipulate my sister…
So why not just move on? Why the need for counseling?
It wasn’t with that girlfriend. I went into the relationship intending to be as cruel as I could without being physically abusive. But it was a gradual process that led me to that point, and I’m hyper-vigilant about avoiding such patterns with my wife.
Because the root of the issue is a problem with communication, not a problem with fidelity. DoperChic and her husband failed to communicate their expectations of each other with regards to sexual fidelity, and so he cheated without realizing that what he was doing constituted cheating. Now that they’ve finally talked through this issue, he knows that kissing and orgasms with any other person is off limits, so he won’t do it again. Nonetheless, that doesn’t solve the underlying problem of communication, so there could be a similar blowout over another issue. Counseling, ideally, should help both DoperChic and her husband communicate better and strengthen their relationship.
I know a guy who launched his own vendetta against womankind. His fiancée had cheated on him, broken off the engagement, yadda, while he was at sea with the USN. He spent the next couple years destroying women everywhere he went.
Now that time has passed, I would think that he’d realize that he was punishing innocents; I’m not sure much guilt has caught up to his psyche yet, however.
I think we’re hijacking the thread, so I’ll shut up.
No, we aren’t.
ETA: Well, yes, we are, but for good reasons, like wanting healthy relationships.
He got a quasi-hand job while she was pregnant?
He thought the stripper ‘liked’ him so much she was going to let him pay her for sex?
The OP needs to get to a male strip club and go to town.
I’m anxiously awaiting your reply and I get this?!
Now I know you have a mean streak, but please satisfy my (and maybe others’) curiosity about why you would intentionally go into a relationship trying to hurt someone and what you mean by intentionally. I’ll even start a new thread if you’d like.
I haven’t read the whole threat yet (up to page 3 so far) but so far no one has said, or they’ve brushed over, a few of the things I’d like to point out.
What the hubby did this time is not the same as what the hubby did last time. The first incident, he did what he thought was OK and got heat for it. He said “I don’t get why, but I understand that it’s wrong.” Then he went to a club again. At no point were we told that he once again sucked a stripper’s tit or came from a dance. For all we know, he just got drunk and watched. He was unknowingly wrong the first time and this time, he’s perfectly OK until you tell me he got off again.
A male orgasm is NOT a personal, sexual experience all the time. Physical stimulation can do that even if the brain isn’t into it. Broomstick and DoperChic, you need to understand that there IS a difference. When hubby is screaming “But it was from the 20 minute dance!!”, you need to understand that what he really means is “My brain wasn’t even in it! It’s the same as if I had a wet dream!” Then you need to understand that he’s telling the truth. I feel you’re not really respecting this biological difference between the sexes. Put another way, cum!=orgasm.
I think we can sum up the argument thusly:
Dc: “I don’t want you to go to a strip club because if you cheated on me once, you’ll cheat on me again!”
Hu: “But the first time, I don’t think I cheated on you. I can’t imagine holding your viewpoint on this issue, but I respect your position on it and won’t do it again.”
Dc: “Then why are you going? Going means you’ll cheat again, especially since you don’t understand what you did wrong last time.”
Hu: “It’s my duty as a guy friend to go. This is not as big a deal as you’re making it.”
Again, I think the whole problem is that DoperChic is saying that going again=first time incident. Evidence: He doesn’t think he was wrong. Hubby is saying that it’s OK because going again!=first time. Evidence: He knows you don’t like it.
Resolve that and you’ll have it all patched up.
DoperChic, ever consider rewarding your husband if/when he makes the right decision with you giving him a Better Lap Dancesup[/sup] at home? It would be a win-win situation, and the positive reinforcement (in the future) would make him invulnerable to the peer pressure he might get from his friends questioning his refusal to go to any more strip clubs.
Yeah, who’s to say what’s normal and what isn’t?
The OP wasn’t explicit, but it seems she has been through some sort of past problems that has left her with “issues” as we say these days, and she has benefited from counseling in the past. She feels that more of it could be helpful at present. Nothing wrong with that conclusion.
I have several close friends who, due to abuse in their childhoods, have been in and out of counseling during their adult lives. Done properly, it can be of great benefit. It doesn’t even have to be a constant thing - a year or two of counseling, followed by years out of it, followed by another year or two when something comes up or needs further work, is a perfectly valid pattern.
If you want to start a new thread I’ll answer there. This thread should be to help & support DoperChic.
Done. Please visit.
I hope this underscores the importance of honest communication between you two. It’s dumb to try to be the “cool fiancee/wife” and say it’s ok for him to do these things if it really does bother you. You don’t need to say “I forbid you” or “you’re not allowed”, but you need to convey your displeasure and disappointment. You do no one any favors by doing otherwise.
Some things are difficult to say and unpleasant to hear, but that doesn’t change that they need to be said and heard.
Best of luck to you.
True, but something this extreme was a one-time occurrence after almost 8 years together.
No worries. At the risk of further hijacking my own thread (does it even count if I hijack my own thread) I have read your initial reply in the spin-off thread. It makes perfect sense now why you responded the way you did. I had a feeling that something of the sort was at the root of why you reacted the way you did to what happened with me.
Unfortunately, my issues go much farther back to my childhood. I’ve got a lifetime of negative thinking to undo. Those prior events/issues contributed greatly to my overreaction and need to be dealt with properly in order to prevent another blow-up. To rehash one of my prior metaphors, I know perfectly well that the way I view the world is often quite skewed due to my shit-colored glasses. I need some help in learning how to take off these glasses so that my rational self can merge with my emotional self.
Does that make sense?
No thanks. For one, just the thought makes me uncomfortable. For another, I hardly think that two wrongs make a right. How would me knowingly making my husband upset make me feel any better?
Once you read further, you’ll see that I have conceded this point. When my husband told me Saturday night that the club was bottomless, it triggered all of the intense emotions that I felt a year ago when he first confessed. It became as fresh and raw to me as if it had just happened. My reaction was analogous to that of a former military person with PTSD. For them, hearing a car back-fire may trigger a flashback to a time when they were in an intense battle. The battle itself may be long over, but the emotions are still just as raw, if not more so.
Again, conceded. I need to learn how to agree to disagree here, I guess. It’s something that I cannot understand but an opinion I have to respect.
I have issues with him wanting to go again at all. In my mind, him wanting to go means that he has some need that I for whatever reason can’t fulfill. Irrational, you betcha. But real to me, unfortunately, yes.
Yeticus Rex, you may have just given me the best advice yet. I’ll definitely try this out and report back with my results.
Wow. That makes at least 3 spin-offs so far, at least that I’ve found.
and this one:
And I have a feeling there are others out there I just haven’t found.
Thank you for your well wishes, Audrey. If nothing else, I have definitely learned this lesson - the hard way.