HSHP, I’m sorry. You are, by your own admission, violently upset. The fact that this happened close to home of course makes it more upsetting to you. But Mornea, even sven, and I could not help noticing that you spent more words on the disrespect to the school than on the harm to the girl.
Noblesse oblige is, well, noble. But to bring it up in this context is silly.
A note of caution: as Catsix has indicated, he hasn’t yet been found guilty. The law in both the US and the UK mandates the presumption of innocence. While ‘cry wolf’ is nothing new, his later email is rather damning. Perhaps there’s an innocent explanation…
Sure, but that argument isn’t a valid defense in court.
So what? So students at a small prep school are supposed to not care about each other? We’re supposed to act as though we don’t know each other? We’re not supposed to have a feeling of community because others did not? I don’t see what point you’re trying to make here. Just because conditions were not conducive to building a tight community where you were doesn’t mean we were wrong for taking advantage of the fact that they were here.
I don’t think you get it. Of course I think you could have gone to my school. I was on need-based financial aid, covering almost all my tuition. I was in northern NJ public school until I went to Hill, and the senior class at the public HS there was bigger than my entire attending class at Hill. Like I said, it’s not about how you get there, it’s about what you do once you are there.
Who in the blue hell is saying that she couldn’t have become something anywhere else? If she was qualified to get into Hill, she’s qualified to make a life for herself anwhere she wants to. But she picked Hill. Or did you miss that part? And I’m not saying her life was ruined. I’m saying he turned her experience at the school sour.
Jesus, catsix. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Nobody forced this girl to go to Hill and nobody is saying that now she should just curl up and die. I’m saying she came to Hill because she wanted to use it as a springboard and what happened to her should not have. That’s all. Stop projecting.
Why? Because the standards of matriculation at public school are adherence to the law. The standards of matriculation at prep schools are a bit more constraining. Not because we have dorms or uniforms (which we don’t), or a $32,500 price tag. Because your matriculation is contingent upon acting a certain way and learning certain things.
Why? Because there’s no excuse that you had no one to watch over you. Because there’s no excuse that you didn’t have a proper example set for you. Because there’s no excuse that nobody took enough interest in you. Because there **is ** a sense of community. Because your obligation to that community trumps your own need for gratification. Because, for all the opportunities you are given with education and example, you are expected to in turn educate and provide example to the people around you. That’s why. At a big school, you can be missed or avoid such things. Not at a small one.
Who mentioned class? Go back and find where class got mentioned. My dad was a machinist with an 8th-grade education and my mother was a nurse.
Do you think I, of all people, would mention CLASS as one of my distinguishing characteristics?
Perhaps I do, but it’s a pretty safe assumption to make. And that’s not elitist, that’s statistically verified.
And you know what?
None of that matters.
Because I can’t speak about your particular school, or how things were by you, or what your school was like.
But I can state for a fact that, at my school, we were taught not to commit statutory sexual assault, and we were taught not to put ourselves in any kind of position where we could be accused of statutory sexual assualt.
If that makes me an elitist, so be it.
OK, you can all go back to ripping into ME now.
How, exactly, does any of this NOT apply to the general population?
Where you’re going afoul here is the idea that it’s somehow a greater outrage that that it was a prep-school kid who broke the law, which implies that if it were some public school kid, it’d be more, you know, typical or something.
Again, why do you think this is a different standard than anyone else in a civilized country is held to? “I know it’s different in public school, but WE were taught not to to rape people.” Do you not see why that’s insulting?
Jenaroph, the first quote there is a direct response to catsix’s question as to why things ought to be different at a small prep school as opposed to an enormous public school. In public school, it’s possible to slip through the cracks or to avoid the involvement of instructors in your life. In prep school, it is not.
And, no, I’m not saying that it’s a greater outrage that a prep-school kid did this. If you read my OP, I am outraged that a member of my community did this. I am outraged because he pissed all over what he was given when he did this. That is not the sum total of my outrage, mind you, but it is the portion of the outrage that I have chosen to vent in the Pit, as it is a betrayal that affects me personally.
But, if you want to get offended, look at the number of rapists expressed as a percentage of the population of non-prep and compare that number to the percentage of the prep population, and I think you will be forced to agree that it is more “typical” in the former group than the latter.
The second quote, Jenaroph, is simply to restate the fact that this is not about whether or not I am elitist.
Because, if you would fucking READ, I made sure to set my experience apart. I deliberately did not say, “I know it’s different in public schools,” because the argument is not about what ahppens in public schools. There is no argument. I am highlighting the fact that this person, specifically, in this environment, specifically, was taught not to be a criminal. I don’t care what happened anywhere else.
Stop projecting. It wasn’t the snarky “In my school…” like you want it to be. It was “In this instance.” But how can I be so sure about this one instance?" Because it happened at my School.
Jesus. Only on the SDMB.
I can’t believe some of the people in this thread. HSHP is condemning an alleged rapist (yeah, yeah; I know), and all you can do is shit all over him because you think he’s not condemning the sonofabitch for the right reasons?
HSHP, for what’s it’s worth, I’m proud to belong to the same community as you. I’d given up hope that I’d ever see posts like the ones you’ve made in this thread. No waffling about the young woman’s culpability. No histrionic cries for Buncamper to be executed without a trial. As I said earlier, you’re looking at the case from an angle that few people even acknowledge: that Buncamper has no excuse for his (yeah, yeah: alleged) actions.
And you get this. Shame on you people. Shame on you.
Why? Is it different from anybody elses experience?
And why do you need to highlight this? Intentionally or not, it DOES read as “we’re taught not to be criminals, unlike other schools.” Why would you need to mention specifically that you’re taught not to be criminals, unless you felt it was different from the norm? That’s what people are picking up on.
Look, I AM sorry this happened. I’m not making light of this jerk’s actions or of the girl’s victimhood or the stain on the school’s reputation. But your community IS NOT DIFFERENT from everywhere else, every barrel has bad apples no matter what rules or standards apply, and it appears this fact is smacking you right between the eyes right now.
Take care, all right?
The difference is that in so many other cases, either the legal system or public opinion or both makes excuses for the accused. “He’s from a bad environment.” “The football team is probably going to make state this year, and we don’t want to mess that up.” “The girl should have known better than to be alone with him.” “Nobody from OUR community could do such a thing.”
HSHP is highlighting the fact that this guy had no such excuses. He is glad that the kid is not being absolved of blame because other people at his school have good reputations and it should average out. And he’s not claiming that kids from other schools are taught to be criminals; don’t put words in his mouth.
All he’s saying is that Buncamper sold the admissions committee a bill of goods, and it turns out he’s just a punk. And this is reflecting badly on a school that makes every effort to produce good citizens. They don’t have the problems that plague public schools: lack of funding, not enough staff, students who are only there because they have to be. Somehow, all the guidance the school provides didn’t get through Buncamper’s cement skull, and now, as DogMom pointed out, he’s hurt the school’s reputation. Even though it’s not on the school, it’s on him. But that’s what people are going to think for quite a while.
Even counting the Kennedy family? [Sorry, couldn’t help it]
If someone from my high school had done such a thing, I’d probably say something similar to HSHP–that we were taught better than that. It wouldn’t be a slam on anyone else’s school. I have no idea what the hell you were or weren’t taught. Maybe the same, maybe different. I just know my own.
I’ve been sympathetic to your rant through most of the thread, but this comment has left me scratching my head. I don’t know what the point of it is.
A lot of crimes are more “typical” of the non-prep population, but it has nothing to do with the differences in education. It also has nothing to do with how special and good the preppies are.
It may seem like this young man has been ingrateful and purposefully thrown away his “good” life. But maybe, despite appearances, his life wasn’t so bliss. Maybe he’s just a bad egg, you know? Maybe his parents didn’t raise him right.
If the “community” did the best by him, then no shame should be felt.
God, are you ever shrill. I see people calling him on being an elitist, fucking asshole more concerned with the reputation of his alma mater than this incident.
If a majority of posters are criticizing your OP, maybe the problem is not with them, but with your perspective or ability to communicate.
He’s overreacting and reducing this incident in the most simplistic, selfish way. No wonder you agree with him.
And I see you jumping on the “let’s tear down the rich-boy” bandwagon without stopping to do your research (a link to some of which is provided right here in this thread) into who I am and where I’m from.
Get this through your fucking heads- I am angry that this guy betrayed the community of which I am a member. Just because that community happens to be an easy target for your misguided classism doesn’t change the fact that I am angry at this guy.
You want to ignore my anger about what he did to her? Fine, go ahead and do that.
But to tear into me for refusing to recognize it, well, anyone who can read will realize you’re full of shit.
Overreacting? Maybe. Simplistic? Isn’t it simple? The guy is an asshole. Selfish? Why bother to defend it. If you read my defense as poorly as you obviously did the OP, you still won’t get it.
Only here.
Why is he supposed to be better because of the school he’s attended? There are hundreds if not thousands of people who go to the best schools in the country/world who do horrific things to others all the time. Every day someone who has had advantages that alot of people never see rape, molest, assault, murder, steal, lie, cheat and commit any crime they think they can get away with. Who’s surprised by this?
Although I’ve never formed that kind of attachment to a school, I do understand that you HSHP really internalized the philosophy and idealism surrounding your school. From that I can understand your shock and betrayal. I never thought you didn’t care about what happened to the girl - but like SBNT’s last sentence, the way you framed your OP seemed to give way more weight to the dishonor of the school than to her. It left a really bad taste in my mouth.
Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t higher/not higher someone based on the actions* of a complete stranger who just happened to go to the applicant’s school. Who thinks like that? And HSHP, do you really think this is the first person who’s gone to this school who’s been accused of commiting a crime? I find it hard to believe that all of the students you came into contact with while a student yourself were moral and just.
I wonder why this was taught so specifically at your school.
[sub]*presuming it wasn’t a widespread cheating/hazing scandal which the applicant could have been a party too.[/sub]
I think these are the perfect summing up of this whole thread.
It’s like the joke about the last ever headline in the New York Times -
World Ends!
Women, Minorities Hit Hardest
Parody has trouble keeping up with real life when it come to political correctness.
Regards,
Shodan
Actually, Shodan, I think your analogy sums up the problem some of us had with the OP better than it describes politically-correct absurdity. The impression the OP gives is:
SCHOOL REPUTATION TAINTED
ALUMNI SENSE OF SUPERIORITY JARRED
Rape Victim Also Bummed
It was also a little off-putting that the OP’s concern for the victim, when he got around to it, was couched only in terms of the betrayal of a fellow Hill student, which puts her personal suffering on a par with the OP’s and suggests that the crime would have been less if the perpetrator had picked on someone from the public school down the road. This is the kind of solipsistic, caste-based thinking that creates the reaction you see in some of these posts.
However, at this point in the thread, I think I understand the OP’s point of view a little better. He’s certainly entitled to pit on whatever grounds he chooses, and his point of view certainly doesn’t prevent anyone else from reacting in a way less personally grounded. Also, Happy Scrappy is right: I misread the press report to say the suspect was met by the communications director. I withdraw my remarks based on that error.
Buncamper, Buncamper, Buncamper!
The thing that’s kept this going so long is HSHP’s repeating again and again “Jesus, only on the SDMB” and such. Blood to the sharks.
Okay, but I didn’t see it that way. The thing is, sympathy for the victim should go without saying, but so often, pittings about rape are mostly pitting the rape as an action, like it’s a natural disaster along the lines of a hurricane. There’s sympathy for the victim, but there’s also an underlying sense that what happened to her was not any more a matter of choice for the perpetrator than it was for her. Rapists are not of us; they’re creatures of the night. We can’t understand them and we can’t stop them.
I got the impression that HSHP was pitting Buncamper because the two of them do have something in common. They went to the same school; they were indoctrinated the same way. HSHP is not inclined to cut Buncamper any slack on the grounds that “I don’t know what influences he might have had; maybe he can’t help it that he can’t control his sexual urges.” HSHP is in a position to have a pretty good idea what the point of divergence was between Buncamper and himself. That’s why his pitting focused on the perpetrator, and why the school was brought into it.
And HSHP, I apologize in advance if my assessment is not accurate.