My son may be a bit of a prude

Kids mature at different rates. He’s only 14. At 14 some boys are still waiting to get hair anywhere other than their head. Others have to shave during lunch and be careful that their knuckles drag the ground. Everyone else is somewhere in the middle.

I knew guys who were having sex (at least that’s what they said) at 14. I also knew guys who were still bringing Transformers to school at 14. I was somewhere in the middle. I’m 32 now, have a wife and a son and I figure I turned out ok.

It sounds like your son is pretty normal. I think that Left Hand… has some pretty good points. I wouldn’t stress too much about it.

It occurs to me that, even if Ivyboy has fantasized about doing the dirty with the girl he has a crush on, seeing her behaving highly suggestively with other boys may have been a major turnoff for him. She’s not supposed to act like that with them! :slight_smile:

I think I’d encourage against the letter, for the reasons given, either from him or from you.

And it may not be inappropriate for Ivylass to find an opportune point to raise the issue of female sexuality with her son, in a non-embarrassing mode – perhaps a neighbor who has gotten pregnant at a relatively young age, or something of the sort. It’s been my experience that for one substantial segment of early-teen boys, it’s perfectly OK for he and his buds to have sexual thoughts and so on, but the idea that girls might feel much the same is a shocker. A few gentle words from Mom that girls feel much the same way as boys do, with the differences, could be an eye-opener for him.

Oh yeah…that’s what EVERY 14 year old wants to hear. A Bird’s N Bees talk from their mom. Ivyboy needs stuff that will make him less uptight, not more.

Not to mention that I would find my mom talking about my sexuality on a message board pretty creepy.
I think once Ivyboy gets past the “pure and chaste angel on a pesdestal” stage of veiwing women and starts seeing them as sex objects, he’ll be better off.

Maybe I’m the exception to the rule, but here’s my experience:

I’m pretty far from being a prude in, I guess, the popular sense of the term. In fact, if “normal” people really knew the stuff I watch/do they’d think I was a pervert or some sort of sexual deviant. I’ve been this way since I was in grade school (although the “watch” and most of the good “do” didn’t come until later.)

But I’ve always been grossed out by freaking at dances. I don’t look down on the people that do it, but I don’t want to be a part of it.

When I first started going out with my current SO, I was a freshman in high school, and she and I used to always laugh or make fun of the people that were freaking; then she told me that she freaked once at a party with her last boyfriend type person. I was just a kid then (or at least more of a kid than I am now) and I totally overreacted and all that stuff. Now I don’t really see the dancing thing as a big deal, but I still have the same sort of reservations about stuff like getting drunk and flashing at parties, etc… (I’m working on being more accepting of the real world…)

So, a couple points:

  1. I wouldn’t assume he’s a prude. He could be prudish about this and completely perverted about everything else.

  2. I don’t necessarily think he would’ve found it acceptable or enjoyed it if he had been the one freaking with the girl, I know I would not have.

  3. It seems likely that there’s this “pure and chaste angel on a pedastal” state that he’s in, but don’t forget that it can coexist with the “seeing women as sexual objects” stage.

This is what I love about this board: we have a “straight from the horse’s mouth” source for every conceivable topic. A question about hobbit transportation issues? Ask Buckleberry Ferry A question on Norse mythology? Ask Freyr. And for insights about adolescent sexuality, who better a resource person than Holden Caulfield? :smiley:

That’s why I sugested sidling into the issue of female sexuality by reference to some current local event.

I think once Ivyboy gets past the “pure and chase angel on a pesdestal” stage of veiwing women and starts seeing them as sex objects, he’ll be better off. **
[/QUOTE]

Sure, because we all know that women just love to be viewed as nothing more than sex objects.

:wally

This is what I love about this board: we have a “straight from the horse’s mouth” source for every conceivable topic. A question about hobbit transportation issues? Ask Buckleberry Ferry A question on Norse mythology? Ask Freyr. And for insights about adolescent sexuality, who better a resource person than Holden Caulfield? :smiley:

That’s why I sugested sidling into the issue of female sexuality by reference to some current local event.

Sure, because we all know that women just love to be viewed as nothing more than sex objects.

:wally

Y’know, msmith537, maybe, just maybe, the whole “diverging from your parents’ values, and going along with the obnoxious crowd to be accepted by your peers” scene is just one possible way to go through adolescence. Most people I know who were nice, sweet, dutiful young gentlemen and ladies who minded their parents have turned out to be nice, sweet, dutiful adults. And so did most people I know who carried on and acted out as teens. I would not be so quick to suggest the ivyboy is somehow becoming stunted in his essential human-interaction skills because he claims to be upset at something his classmates are doing.

As Holden said more succintly than I, if he truly has objections, he needs to learn to assume an “I don’t look down on the people that do it, but I don’t want to be a part of it” posture, and he’ll be doing just fine.

IF he comes across as laying some sort of censure against his classmates. (Watch out on that, ivylass!) If OTOH he focuses on accommodating the non-freakin’minority by making available more social opportunities for them, or even for when the general population needs a rest, he may indeed win quite a few friends.

When I was in high school, around '61-'62, there was a popular “underground” dance called the “Levi”. The boy and girl would undo the top button on their jeans and hook up, boys button to girls buttonhole (hush) and vice-versa. Mostly it was awkward, but it was kinda sexy too.
Not everybody did it.

Gods forbid someone doesn’t want to be at a place where all they play is mindless repetitive music. Not all teens love rap. I boycotted most dances because of the idot music, and the freak dancing. I’m not a prude, I’m a metalhead, and frankly that music irritates the hell out of me. I turned out fine.

Sure, because we all know that women just love to be viewed as nothing more than sex objects.
**
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I was kind of kidding. Actually, both extremes are bad and both objectify women. In the “pedestal” stage they are viewed as “prizes” to be won. As “sex objects” they are simply playthings to be used and discarded. Ideally, he should be viewing them as people to have relationships and interact with with. I guess the “sex object” point of view is a little better since he’s actually involved, instead of having imaginary relationships with someone he longs from afar.

I think it’s important that kids eventually form their own set of values and tastes apart from their parents. That doesn’t mean they have to turn into obnoxious jerks. Part of growing up is freeing yourself from your parents and picking your own path in life. It’s normal that parents should not like the music their kids listen to or the clothes they wear.

I’m with msmith on this one. First, you don’t want to say it this way, but he needs to learn to give into a little bit of peer pressure. I know that doesn’t sound good, but let me explain. For things that are not as important, social trends and things, he needs to go with the flow sometimes while still maintaining his individuality. This will not only give him credibility when he needs to be an individual on the important things (drugs, cheating, whatever), but also bring him into a situation where he is more comfortable interacting with his peers. Sure, some of the things I’m interested in aren’t what people like to talk about – so in most social situations, I don’t talk about them, even if that means I’m sacrificing a little bit of individuality. An aloof “I’m better than them” mentality is a harmful worldview for your son to acquire. Even if he does not want to freak dance himself, it shouldn’t ruin his impression of this girl that she likes to do so. Let her do her thing, and go later and talk to her about other stuff if he’s not interested in that. Everybody, teens especially, have all sorts of pressures to be like their different influences: parents, peers, friends, whatever. In the end, we are all products of combinations of all those influences, and being a teenager is about learning how to balance them. Maintaining your individuality while being respectful and understanding of others is essential to that. Eventually he will mold anyway, but adopting a more mature attitude now will make the transition easier for him and prevent him from being excluded.

Remember, we are all peer pressured, all the time; it’s called society. A few years ago I never would have allowed myself to greet somebody with “sup”, and might have looked down on (white) people who did. But now it’s just normal, despite the fact that I’m a white engineering student at an Ivy League school. I still dance when necessary at parties, even though I’m not a huge fan of dancing. Why? Because that’s what people do, and if I want to meet girls, and, um, know them, that’s what’s required.

If he takes that approach, of trying to appreciate or at least respect what others are doing, he will end up over time much happier than if he goes to the dean and requests that they play less hip-hop at parties or teach (in what form would this be? mandatory dance class before the dance?) other styles of dancing. I can assure you nobody wants to learn to waltz. Going to the dean will only separate him further from his peers as the narc/crybaby of the grade.

And for the love of God, don’t talk to him about sex. It’s awkward enough to hear it from your dad, even though that’s probably appropriate. Hearing about it from your mom is just cruel.

Say what? I’m of the belief that this society has entirely too many sexual hangups (not that we need more sex, just less baggage). It pains me to hear a bright poster advise someone not to have a frank discussion about sex with their children.

I agree with those who say that the reaction was far more likely emotional than moral. Young teenagers tend to have an extremely active amygdala, and a fairly dormant frontal lobe. I think it was the notion that the object of his crush was with another guy that upset him, and I think that would have been the case no matter whether she was dancing dirty with him or just sipping lemonade and batting her eyes at him. Your son might then have stormed home complaining of how boring everything was — people just sitting and talking.

If everyone took the conservative route, we’d still be back in the 1500s. Thank god there are some teens stupid enough to reject societal norms and carve a new way forward.

Okay, I have already discussed sex with my son, after catching him the the bathroom looking through a catalog of X-rated videos. I explained to him that is was completely normal and natural, and asked him to make sure such material was not accessible to either me, his younger sister, or his baby cousins. His response? “I’ve got the coolest mom ever!” His father handles a lot of his questions, because I don’t have any brothers.

He did speak to the dean yesterday, and the dean said he did not see any inappropriate dancing. So it is possible my son’s impression of the dancing was colored by the fact that the object of his crush was not dancing with him. He also stands by his statement that he does not like “freak” dancing. I suggested that he dance with girls in whatever way he feels most comfortable.

He did attend a choir presentation last night, during which his “crush” sang. After the singing, he gave her a flower he bought himself.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with treating young girls like ladies. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with standing up for your principles, whether you are 14 or 44.

[annoyed personal aside]
Some people need remedial lessons on the meaning of the phrase “just one possible way”. As in, it contains the recognition that there are MANY possible ways, and NO judgement on the rightness or wrongness of each.
[/annoyed personal aside]

Other than that, what Holden said, and the first paragraph of what Fang said.

Are you sure you’re not confusing prudishness with good taste? One can be all for a porno category in the Oscars, clothing that covers essentially nothing, and prostitution as a respected career choice, yet recognize that there is no excuse for dressing like Christina Aguilera.

I’m pretty sure at 14, he already knows about sex. What he needs advice on is dating.

14 is a tough time. If you like a girl, how the heck do you ask them out? You don’t have a car which means Mom has to drive everywhere. You have no money so fancy dates are out. It’s tough to find any time alone (my Mom used to come in the room with sandwhiches alll the time.“You kids want some sandwiches?” 16 years I have to make my own lunch, all of a sudden there are sandwiches?)

Almost forgot… You might want to encourage Ivyboy to seek out other girls. I think that young kids tend to focus on the hottest, high profile girls (and thus least obtainable through sheer competition) and thus overlook girls who may actually like them (I know I had to be hit in the face with a shovel to realize a girl liked me). That may be a result of kids becoming interested in girls sexually but not quite ready to actually have a relationship with them.

>Same place they’ve always been. Holding the wall up at the
>party, too afraid to approach you. Either that or playing with
>their collection of dead animals.

Bosh. Now anyone who has standards of decency (whether the dancing was indeed of an indecent nature is up to debate, of course) become a target of cultural liberalists branding as dead-animal-collectors? Sheesh!