Not to give everyone permission to go wild on the blow jobs or anything, but HIV transmission risk is much lower for oral sex than for vaginal intercourse. It can happen, but it is quite rare.
Yeah, sure, HIV and STD related deaths happen but lets not use 1 death you personally experienced to mean that it’s common.
From here http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr53/nvsr53_05acc.pdf (PDF, can’t copy and paste)
Some interesting numbers for the 15-24 group (the younger group is pretty close to the ratio of this group).
In 2002 33,000+ 15-24 year olds died in the US. 178 from HIV, 23 from herpies and 97 as “other”. Your kid has a much much much higher chance dying from all sorts of other things including parents driving their kids (15,412 driving related accidents, although I’m sure a large portion of that is new drivers) and drowing (529). Hell, suicide took 4010 young lives.
I agree, protect your kids, but lets not use sex as some black pit of death. More adults are infected with HIV than children. I hate the idea that lying to kids “for their own protection”.
If you look at the infection rates (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/2003SurveillanceReport/table1.htm) you can also see a breakdown based on age. While still relatively high in young people, AIDS infection rates skyrocket in older people (35-44 age group).
Kids are not AIDS magnets. They should still take care but it’s wrong to bring out the fear monger AIDS statements when talking about young people and sex.
Well, good!
Well, what’s the acceptable kissing age, then?
And I hope it’s deep-tongue kissing that you’re forbidding at 13, not a chaste peck. Otherwise that’s just as ridiculous as saying a blowjob at 13 is no big deal. There is a middle ground, yanno.
See, I don’t follow this logic. Telling mom is not a consequence of her actions because it’s not a natural result of them. I understand that you don’t mean it as a punishment, but consequences are what follow from an action. A consequence of giving a blow job might be emotional unpleasantness, or an STD, but there’s nothing about having sex that leads to discussions with your parents as a result. And I think it’s wrongheaded to equate willingness to discuss sex with her mother and maturity. It’s one thing to talk about sex in the abstract with your parents (is that ever even comfortable?) but it’s quite another to start a conversation with, "Hey, mom, I was giving some head to Billy from down the street . . . " I just find it strange that you consider willingness to discuss that with mom a sign of maturity - I don’t think I’ll ever become so mature that I’m gonna tell my mother about my sex life.
That said, I think it’s probably right that mom hears about it. I just think it’s very odd to make her bring it up herself.
And with 13-year-old kids, it’s very unlikely that the boy has an STD. Not impossible, I know, but I’m not very fond of this strange pretense that any sexual activity in any context poses an equal risk of STDs. Stepdaughter is phenomenally unlikely to catch anything from this kid. She should be aware of the risk, but it’s wrong to distort the risks in order to make a point.
Yeah, but it’s like when my mom told me not to let my nephew touch the fake fireplace logs. “Why? They’re not hot; they won’t burn him.”
“But if he touches the fake ones without getting burned, he might stick his hand in a real fire. Then he would get burned.”
Sex should be like handling a gun or wearing a microphones. Treat all guns like they’re loaded. Treat all mikes like they’re on. Treat all sexual encounters as if both partners are carriers.
Oh I know that; I’m just looking for a sign that they’re showing some sexual maturity by recognizing risks and using protection.
I know shark attacks are rare too, but I don’t go in the ocean with an open wound.
Also, death and HIV are not what I was intially thinking about. I wouldn’t want my child to get coldsores, let alone AIDs.
Excalibre, maybe not very serious STDs, but I would imagine that herpes would be likely-how many people have cold sores?
I think you did the right thing, plnnr --and I hope that the boy’s parents are in the loop.
We just had this happen with our 14 y/o daughter a few months ago. They were caught indulging in BJ at his house, with his sibs and parents home (huh? I still come back to that–WTF were they doing with everyone else home?).
The rxns on the parts of the parents is illuminating. Our daughter was driven home by boy’s parents. She confessed to whole thing and expressed remorse. I listened and told her go wash her face. While she was doing that, I called my husband. We both agreed to approach her with info, not condemnation–but also (hopefully) some wisdom.
Both of us remained calm throughout. It’s a BJ, not the end of the world. That said, she is too young to handle this, as evidenced by the risky behavior and the poor judgement shown. Fair enough.
Next day, boy’s parents come over. We talk. My hubby is not home, but I speak for us both–I say that they are experimenting and should not be punished, but need to really know the risks and responsibilities of engaging in sex etc. Not just the health class stuff, but the emotions and expectations etc.
Boy’s mother could not have been more against that. “he’s too young, I am furious, they cannot “go out” anymore. This is too much etc.” Boy not allowed to speak to my daughter etc at school. Causes much uproar at school, since they were the “golden couple” of their year. I count myself lucky that mother did not blame my daughter for the corrupting of her baby boy (it got almost that bad).
I still struggle with this whole thing (happened about 6 months ago). Were we too lax on her? We never did “punish” her–how do you punish someone for a natural curiosity? Plus, we couldn’t stop the boy’s parents from their actions and feel that daughter has been punished enough–she lost a person who meant a great deal to her (unlike the girl being pressured scenario that I am familiar with and is mentioned here, this was a mutual thing–they just got caught on his “turn”).
Do I like that my daughter is doing this? (well, was doing this)? No. But she will do it sooner or later. I would rather she do it well informed than to deny her sexuality. I also would prefer it if she waited until she was more mature and understood fully the choices and chances she may be taking.
She and this boy were very close emotionally and well matched personality wise. Now he is a jerk to her and all girls (mother has told him in no uncertain terms that he is not to even look at girls etc.) and here we are.
One kid is sad, but will get past this and on to other, better relationships. Another one is denied an expression of one of the major issues of adolescence–becoming a responsible sexual being-and is angry and acting out.
<sigh>
As to the whole why do girls do it question…to feel accepted and loved, if only for a few minutes. Sure, we would all like to think that in this day and age such things are no longer issues, but they are. IMO, most young teen girls have no self esteem at all–they may have alot of 'tude and brazeness, but it’s all show. To have a BF inmiddle school is to have achieved a Big, Adult Thing–and many will do anything to rise up the social/“maturity” hierarchy. Sad, but true.
I think that the phenomenon fades a bit in the upper class years–the drive to have a BF may not be as strong, since people have pretty much been sorted into their categories by then. Depressing as hell, but farily accurate.
I’m so with you on that. I’m not an anti-blowjob prude, but I just can’t see puttin my lips on someone’s bathroom parts unless I have a huge case of unconditional love happenin there.
That’s what boggles my mind about this new fad of casual bj’s among pre-teens & teens. Personally I see oral sex as way more intimate than intercourse.
Well I guess the common ground until now is that trying to guide and educate girls without castrating them is a VERY HARD JOB.
I wouldn’t want that duty… and I congratulate those that get it right especially step fathers. In the end if the new generation of women don’t have a much healthier relationship with sex… things won’t get much better for women overall.
PS: Most teens of either sex have near zero self esteem…
I don’t get the whining about making the kid tell her mom.
So what she was “uncomfortable” talking to her mom about it? A 13 year old can be “mature” and “comfortable” enough to suck a dick, but as soon as she has to have a talk with Mom about it we’ve got to shield her from being uncomfortable?
Back in my high school days my black friends would inform me that black girls do NOT do oral sex. Ever. In their circles it was considered to be the nastiest, most lowdown thing a girl could possibly do sexually – and not in a good way.
IOW, a girl who simply had intercourse with lots of guys would be more respectable than a girl who only did oral sex.
This may have just been a regional thing, but I found it interesting. If this is a common attitude within the black community as a whole, I’d love to know how it came about, because it seems to be exactly the opposite of what your average white girl would say if asked. YMMV, IME, etc.
I totally get the gist of what you were saying in your whole post, and I think you did the right thing with your girl. But this part kinda made me go “huh?”
I submit that 99% of people “deny their sexuality” fairly regularly, if we’re going with what your definition seems to be (provided I haven’t misunderstood).
Let’s take married people – no matter how good your marriage is, it’s not like you’re magically NOT attracted to other people once you get hitched. I’m not saying that you truly want to have sex with other people, or that you’d ever act upon it but let’s face it … our morals aren’t stored in our sex organs – they want what they want when they want it. Sexual attraction has no rhyme or reason and doesn’t care if there’s a ring on your finger.
So if someone married meets someone else that’s REALLY hot at work, and there’s this wild animal sexual attraction going on, are they “denying their sexuality” by NOT getting it on in the copy machine room? No, they are merely choosing to keep their sexuality in its proper place – at home, with their spouse – within the boundaries they freely chose to submit themselves to on their wedding day. (Obviously, I’m not referring to people in open marriages here.)
I know a guy who was well into his 30s when he got married, and he was a virgin – don’t ask me how he did it (I’da died), but he chose to wait until he found himself a Very Nice Girl and married her. Before he married, was he denying his sexuality? I don’t think so. I think he was simply choosing to control when, where, and under what circumstances it was expressed. A very, very hard decision to follow through on – heroic, if you ask me – but he’s never regretted it.
So it goes with teenagers. Yes, they’re sexual beings, but insisting that they wait until a proper age to express that sexuality isn’t making them deny it – just that, like other appetites we have (money, power, food, booze, etc.), it has to be controlled lest we do ourselves great harm.
I agree… but its controlling if they chose to do so… its denying if the parent’s chose so. If you make them scared of sex then its something else… not self control.
I’d rather my childhood had lasted a tad longer… but them darn hormones were driving me crazy. Experimentation is inevitable. Just guide your kids as best as you can… and try to keep some minimal communication and support.
Considering it’s the parents who have to foot the bill when the kid gets knocked up (or sick), I don’t see why parents “denying” their kids opportunities to have sex is such a bad thing.
Parents need to deny their kids stuff that’s bad for them, especially when the kid is too young to control themself. Ever seen a parent who never denied their child anything? Not pretty. It’s cruel when parents refuse to make good decisions for their kids when they know their kid isn’t yet capable of making it for themself. We don’t put 5 year olds on the streets and expect them to fend for themselves – why would we assume that barely pubescent kids are capable of making rational decisions that people twice their age have trouble with?
I don’t think that they should be made afraid of sex itself, but they definitely need to be afraid of the negative consequences that comes with bad decisions. (And I’m not just talking about pregnancy/STDs. Like I said earlier, you can do everything right with that and STILL be making a bad decision.)
Abby–I think you did misunderstand.
I meant that I didn’t want to condemn a natural desire on her part or make her feel dirty or ashamed for having those feelings. By all means, I agree with you that parents are supposed to deny kids many things for their own good.
The other set of parents were so over the top in their disgust and anger that I felt I shouldn’t pile on. She is not dating at present, but concentrating on her schoolwork.
For what it’s worth–my first experience with a BJ was when this guy I was dating at 17 grabbed my long hair and forced my head down to his crotch. Yes, I should have resisted and yelled etc, but I didn’t. It happened at a party and the thought of causing a scene was more horrendous than actually doing what he wanted. I have no rosy colored notions as to the sweetness of teenage boys (and probably don’t give many of them the benefit of the doubt like I should).
I am glad that my daughter did not have the experience that I did–even though this mistake cost her a relationship that meant a great deal to her. I get the untold thrill of seeing the mother just about everywhere I go–she pretends that nothing ever happened and has joked about “the good ol’ times” with her son and my daughter. I just look at her blankly-I have no words.
As for the intimacy of hummers vs intercourse–I completely agree. All I can think of when I hear stories about teens doing this is “I sure hope they all took showers-before and after.” 
Cripes, sorry for the hijack. Guess I needed to spill all this out somewhere!
Abbie I think you misunderstood. I agree that parents shouldn’t bend over… but I was arguing the “control” vs “denying”. Your quote above seems to imply that teens should get a hold/control of themselves. That simply won’t happen. They don’t have the maturity for a rosy view of controlling themselves… So in fact you are proposing that parents deny them. Which like can be good for them. Still you have to give them the information because they probably will get around the rules.
- Maybe.
Seriously, I would expect my step-daughter and future boyfriend/husband to have enough respect not to ever be doing any spit-swapping in front of me and her mother. When they’re on the altar, I might make an one-time only exception.
As for when she does start dating (not forbidden, just hasn’t wanted to start yet), I’m going to have to hope and pray that peer pressure does not win out over parental teachings and self-confidence. And I’m going to keep my cricket bat near the door. I hope I’ve sufficiently scared her by watching Married with Children reruns and pointing out, whenever Al pounds on one of Kelly’s dates, that the same treatment is in store for her future boyfriends. 
Firstly: I realize that there is a significantly decreased risk of transmission of various sexually transmitted diseases via oral sex as opposed to vaginal sex, but reduced risk is not the same as no risk. The current literature suggests that teens are thinking that oral sex isn’t really sex - not a big deal, a safe alternative. (Cite for the curious - there are a number of parallel cites as well - MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos)
The thing is it’s a totally preventable serious health risk being taken by a person who probably lacks the responsibility and maturity to make that call. Not every drunk driver kills themself or someone else every time they do it, but that doesn’t make doing it a good idea.
There’s a difference between scarring a kid’s viewpoint on sex for life and preventing your kid from having to make decisions alone she’s not yet equipped to make.
Also, as an aside, I totally agree with making her tell her own mother. It’s not punitive. If she’s mature enough to decide she can engage in sexual activity she should probably be mature enough to admit as much to her mother. While I don’t discuss the details of my love life with my mother, she knows I have one 
If my dad ever walks in on me and my fiance having relations in a public area of the house (which just smacks of poor decision making skills right there), then he has every right to expect me to be adult enough to inform my mother of it myself. If you’re too embarassed you’re engaging in sexual activity, maybe that’s a clue that you’re doing something you think might be the wrong thing to do. There’s kind of a wide area of difference between letting your parents know of a fairly major decision and providing a play-by-play of your activities.
Ohhhhhhh, ok, I see what you’re saying. :smack:
Totally. Everyone’s first time with the serious stuff should be a good experience.
How is it I managed to control myself as a teenager then? It’s not because I didn’t WANT to have sex, and it’s not because I didn’t have opportunities. And I was not the only kid in my class that made it out of high school a virgin. (And lest you’re wondering, I had a very laid-back mother who I knew wouldn’t kill me if I started having sex young.)
So either I was just some unusually amazing, mature, responsible, smart teenage girl, one in a million, or we have just assumed that most teenagers aren’t capable of controlling themselves – and since we don’t expect them to control themselves, they don’t.
Why do I suspect it’s the latter, and not the former?
Well you seem to assume you’re the norm ? 
“Glad” you managed… but not everyone does… and I surely hope parents assume their kids won’t and do give them the information and how to deal with it. (Not that your implying that kids don’t need sex-ed. Just holding back alone doesn’t make for growing up… its how you handle it when you do. I know a lot of grown ups, including myself, who don’t control themselves and did stupid things. So like you said… many expect teens not too either since they are human. Naturally its best to keep 'em in the dark about the fact that we think they can’t control themselves.
Just wondering plnnr, how is your stepdaughter handling things now? Is she acting like she’s really sorry for pulling the most idiotic thing ever (I’m sorry, but a blowjob in a public space, with a parental around, isn’t the brightest thing to do), or is she just hiding from you and your wife? Perhaps a follow-up talk may ease some of the tension if she’s feel ashamed or needs to get more advice from you guys. Maybe she’ll need more support from you and your wife because when some kids do irrational things, they feel that their parents hate them or that their parents think they’re stupid kids (regardless of whether or not you feel that way, kids still need love and support). I know that when I did stupid things, my parents almost went out of their way to make me feel like I was lower than scum - I grew up with traditional Asian parents that believed that neglect is the best way to steer your kids clear of bad things by making them feel like horrible people for it.
Also, how are you punishing her? Do you think that besides for getting caught, was the act that she engaged in punishable in itself?
Just wanted to know your thoughts as the parent who’s experiencing this.