[QUOTE=Tabula Rasa]
They’re back, you know. Today sponges in a fuschia box at your local Walgreen’s. Packs of three or ten. And as good as ever.
[/QUOTE]
, yeah but now we are middle-aged with kids. It sadly just does not matter as much. They took it away when we were still young and without kids and going through a lot of sponges/condoms.
Jim {Did I really just post that?}
[QUOTE=Not A Well Woman]
Listen…In a perfect world, birth control is both of their responsibilities, but I just do not feel that this is a realistic concept (pardon the pun).
[/QUOTE]
This statement is really confusing me. In a perfect world, both your son and your son’s ex-wife would be responsible for using contraception/controlling procreation.
But, it would logically follow, we DON’T live in a perfect world, because your ex-DIL is an irresponsible wench, therefore it’s her responsibility whether or not they have a kid?
That’s what you seem to be arguing here, and it’s not adding up for me. I would think that because we don’t live in a perfect world, both parties would take the responsibility for procreation into their own hands, in case the other party, being imperfect, fails to do so. You know, like a back-up. Because we don’t live in a perfect world. Right?
What is it specifically about this world’s imperfection that makes it not his responsibility whether or not he has a child?
Holy moly folks. ‘Ex daughter in law’ means they were married. How do any of you know the baby wasn’t planned? I can see jumping on son for the lazy checkbook, he does need to be more financially responsible. However, the whole birth control thing may not even apply - well except for between the ex and the new boyfriend. The common denominator in this situation is the woman with (soon) 4 children by presumably 3 different men.
[QUOTE=Alice The Goon]
What’s with all the sympathizing with the son not being able to pay on time? Yes, sometimes bills get paid late, yadda yadda… but this is NOT a bill. It’s a court order. It needs to be paid on time, every time, period. If your son (like you’re coming back to this thread) can’t meet his obligations, maybe he could look into getting a second job.
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, that’s fucked up. He has a job and he pays his required pecent monthly. But he should have to get a second job because she’s so inflexible?
No, it’s not a bill, and it’s not like he should pay only because it’s a court order. It’s support for the child, for fuck’s sake. Yes, Visa and MasterCard charge you a fee if you’re a day late paying. But my tenant gets a 5 day grace period before I would even say anything to him about being late with rent, even though I have a mortgage to pay, and he’s not even my friend-- because I’m a human being, and I understand that other human beings sometimes run into financial difficulties. If they are operating in good faith, and have a record of getting me the money, I should give them the benefit of the doubt when required. Are you trying to tell me that this man’s relationship to his ex-wife and the mother of his child should bear more resemblance to Visa’s with a debtor than a landlord with a tenant? esp. considering the money goes to support his kid, not pay a credit card, so there’s no incentive for him to stiff her unless he’s a total bastard.
When they were together, I bet they found a way to deal with it if he got paid on the 3rd instead of the 1st, and she wasn’t screaming in his face about “Where’s my money, right now bitch!” But now that they’re not together, she cannot be remotely flexible or understanding and must have all cash on hand immediately, as if that’s realistic all the time. Is that really warranted? They’re not romantically involved, but they do have a relationship, and she should treat him that way, not like an ATM. It would be one thing if he was stiffing her for support all the time, and we only know his side second hand, so, who knows? But if he isn’t, and he legitimately pays every month but sometimes is a day or two late, she’s being unreasonable and creating an oppositional relationship where there doesn’t need to be one. And it can’t be good for the kid for his parents to hate each other this much. How can they co-parent when they can’t even handle this? It will likely make the kid’s father less inclined to see his kid, if dealing with her is such a nightmare, and thus, it’s worse for the kid.
Poor kid. God, these situations do turn into messes when people are assholes.
[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
I’m sorry, that’s fucked up. He has a job and he pays his required pecent monthly. But he should have to get a second job because she’s so inflexible?
No, it’s not a bill, and it’s not like he should pay only because it’s a court order. It’s support for the child, for fuck’s sake. Yes, Visa and MasterCard charge you a fee if you’re a day late paying. But my tenant gets a 5 day grace period before I would even say anything to him about being late with rent, even though I have a mortgage to pay, and he’s not even my friend-- because I’m a human being, and I understand that other human beings sometimes run into financial difficulties. If they are operating in good faith, and have a record of getting me the money, I should give them the benefit of the doubt when required. Are you trying to tell me that this man’s relationship to his ex-wife and the mother of his child should bear more resemblance to Visa’s with a debtor than a landlord with a tenant? esp. considering the money goes to support his kid, not pay a credit card, so there’s no incentive for him to stiff her unless he’s a total bastard.
[/QUOTE]
But it’s not her he’s paying. He’s supporting his child, as ordered by a court. The mother is just the middle man. And hell, no, there should not be a grace period. When this shit goes on month after month after month, it gets old. Children want to be fed now, in my experience. Dude needs to buck up and do what he needs to do to take care of that child. Grandma needs to shut the fuck up and do something to help solve the problem if she thinks there is one.
I would like to know more about the drinking problem the son used to have. Was this during the marriage? Did it contribute to the breakup?
Having had just a little bit of experience with drunks (luckily not having to rely on them for my child’s welfare) my first thought was - ‘well, that’s why DIL isn’t into giving him extensions.’
I may be wrong - it happens. But drunks are not the most reliable people in the world and if the son was drinking during the marriage, then the DIL won’t have had a lot of experience with his stable, responsible side. He may be better now - does ex-DIL have any reason to trust the sober side?
If he was stone cold sober during their entire relationship, and cannot organise payment for entirely legitimate reasons, then I’m with the OP. I’ve spent years avoiding drama for the sake of my kid’s welfare. But, if this is just another series of ‘but I can’t’ excuses after excuses, then I’m with the mother who is trying to do the best for her kids.
Even the OP says the mother has no problem with paying rent and bills on time - so she apparently *is *able to budget around the late support payments. But it would be hell on wheels to have a constant worry that the payments might not come through.
And why, as the OP says, does ‘no-one else have a problem’ with the latest pregnancy - what haven’t we been told?
[QUOTE=Alice The Goon]
But it’s not her he’s paying. He’s supporting his child, as ordered by a court. The mother is just the middle man.
[/quote]
Do we know it’s a court order? Sounds like they are just working it out between them, otherwise wouldn’t the court be garnishing his wages?
There should be one if he is legitimately trying to make payments, and does make them ASAP, but his business doesn’t flow in a way that allows him to have cash at the exact moment she wants it. IF she wants to maintain civil relations with him AND he is acting in good faith. If he’s not, and we have no way of knowing that for sure, then she could very well be justified in reaming him for his lateness. OR they could just get the courts involved and then he wouldn’t have to deal with her at all.
[QUOTE=CrankyAsAnOldMan]
If it’s all timing, as you claim, then this is easily solved if you can help with one month’s payment. All you’d have to do is give him the money to pay for November’s payment, on time. Then, when his income flow allows it, he should take what would have been the November payment from his own $$ and bank it. In December, on the day the December payment is due, it will be there. He can pay it, and then take what would have been December’s payment and bank it for January. And so on and so on. Thus, instead of being perpetually a day or two behind that custody payment, the money’s available 28 or so days ahead of time. No more abuse, no more penalties, no more black marks against his support record. Hopefully in a good month or series of months he could pay you back.
[/QUOTE]
I just wanted to applaud this fabulous post. The shit-slinging posts are a lot more entertaining to read, but I think the problem-solving is pretty cool too.
[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Do we know it’s a court order? Sounds like they are just working it out between them, otherwise wouldn’t the court be garnishing his wages?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t imagine you can get a divorce without determining custody and arranging support for minor children. Even if you have the most amicable split in history, schools, doctors, etc. need to know who the custodial parent is for many reasons such as determining which school district the children reside in, determining who has the final say with medical issues, etc. Support is based on custody and is usually a formual worked out by the legislature.
So it’s highly unlikely that it wasn’t a court order.
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
But again, we are relying on the third hand account from this woman’s ex mother in law. Do you really think she is going to give a complete picture? Heck, does she even know the full picture? Maybe the daughter in law is screaming at the father because this is the last of a million other things he’s done. Maybe he spent the last hour before that berating her? Maybe she’s just a bitch. We honestly don’t know, but I’d hardly consider an ex mother law a clear source of information since she’s obviously going to be a little biased.
[/QUOTE]
Certainly true. My assumption is that most likely, everyone involved in this is behaving like an asshole to some extent. (Myself not excepted).
My objection is to the notion that the OP’s son has to pay his obligations, no excuses accepted, but the baby mommy gets a pass.
This is based on the assumption that this part of the OP -
is accurate.
It does not seem to me that the life situation of the children here is entirely because the child support for one of them is sometimes a few days late. Or that the OP’s son is the the only one with a duty to meet his/her responsibilities.
Regards,
Shodan
[QUOTE=PunditLisa]
So it’s highly unlikely that it wasn’t a court order.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe so… I don’t know enough about this to say. But the court hasn’t mandated payments through the child support system, obviously, and I have to wonder why the ex-DIL hasn’t demanded that. She can force him to pay through that system, so she will get her check every month like clockwork and then the government takes it up with him if he’s late, in arrears, or whatever. Seems like the sanest option in this case: kids will get their money on time, DIL can get off sonny boy’s ass, and he will have the state to deal with about when he makes his payments, so at least that source of tension will be gone between them.
Oh my fucking god. All I wanted to do was yell for a minute about how pissed off I was when I heard about this new development and everyone is running wild with a million assumptions, accusations and etc.
Do you people have a LIFE? Oh, sorry. I forgot. I am on the SDMB so what else do I expect.
Listen…I do not coddle my son or my daughter. He lives in another state for crying out loud and he hates to talk about personal stuff on the phone (insert your judgemental assumption here) so this is why I got the news because he is visiting. My grandchild was thoroughly planned and he did not come along until they were married for a year. I know we are a very strange family, but there you have it Two people actually waited until they were married until they had a child. Things were going great until she developed post partum depression and was taking every pill in the book. Which made her weird and irresponsible around the house. So, have fun with that one.
Of course I want the child to be well provided for. Of course I have a supportive relaysh with the ex for the sake of my grandson. I just wanted to scream about how I cannot believe that since the advent of birth control the birth rate has gone UP!!!
Cripes. Have fun ripping the shit out of my life while I go to work.
I don’t think the mommy gets a free pass–she should try as hard as possible to get her shit together so she isn’t missing bill payments just because her ex-husband is an irresponsible twit, but that doesn’t make him less of an irresponsible twit.
If you make a thread on a more or less public message board, you will have to expect people to reply to it. Perhaps a livejournal or other blog, with some kind of privacy controls, would be more to your taste if all you want is to vent with no one able to comment on what you have written. And questioning whether posters on the SDMB have lives strikes me as ironic at best when you yourself are a poster here.
[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Maybe so… I don’t know enough about this to say. But the court hasn’t mandated payments through the child support system, obviously, and I have to wonder why the ex-DIL hasn’t demanded that. She can force him to pay through that system, so she will get her check every month like clockwork and then the government takes it up with him if he’s late, in arrears, or whatever. Seems like the sanest option in this case: kids will get their money on time, DIL can get off sonny boy’s ass, and he will have the state to deal with about when he makes his payments, so at least that source of tension will be gone between them.
[/QUOTE]
He is probably sending his money to the child support system. Child support doesn’t send out a check to the custodial parent unless they have first received a check from the non-custodial parent. So, if she’s supposed to get the money on the 1st but he doesn’t send it in until the 5th, she doesn’t get her money until (something like) the 10th.
CS does NOT send out checks from a general fund that is then reimbursed by the payer (at least in Ohio). So if the check is late, the check is late.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
Ever not paid a parking ticket? . . . if the OP’s son is legitimately just sometimes missing payment by a day or two because of cash flow issues relating to his line of work, I don’t see it as a big deal.
A great many organizations that are owed money on X date (even courts and municipalities) tend to not go apeshit and threaten legal action if you pay soon after said date.
[/QUOTE]
I would imagine this varies from state to state, but it was my understanding that when it comes to court-ordered child support, the court may be a stickler about the date. To an inflexible degree.
I know custodial parents who have been advised to not be lenient or understanding about late payments, nor even to handle the issue of late payments themselves, but rather to turn it right over the legal system. Whether or not this policy is nice is another debate, but that’s the way it is in some places.
If a custody-owing parent has other people.organizations in his life who are flexible about payments (such as the landlord or the city traffic court) then s/he is welcome to enjoy that, but IMO the parent would be smart to obey payment arrangements to the letter when it comes to child support. I think such things could come back to bite said parent in the ass later, even if there weren’t fines and other things levied.
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
He is probably sending his money to the child support system. Child support doesn’t send out a check to the custodial parent unless they have first received a check from the non-custodial parent. So, if she’s supposed to get the money on the 1st but he doesn’t send it in until the 5th, she doesn’t get her money until (something like) the 10th.
CS does NOT send out checks from a general fund that is then reimbursed by the payer (at least in Ohio). So if the check is late, the check is late.
[/QUOTE]
They can go through your company’s payroll and take the money, every week like clockwork, and you never see it. No need for a general fund. Can they do this with people who are self-employed? I don’t know.
[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
They can go through your company’s payroll and take the money, every week like clockwork, and you never see it. No need for a general fund. Can they do this with people who are self-employed? I don’t know.
[/QUOTE]
That’s just the thing. CS doesn’t take the money. The employer sends the money. If the employer doesn’t send the money on time, the recipient doesn’t get it on time.
So, if he’s his own employer, he’s not sending the money on time for her to be getting her check on time. It doesn’t matter if he’s sending it directly to her or to CS, either way he’s not sending it on time.
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
That’s just the thing. CS doesn’t take the money. The employer sends the money. If the employer doesn’t send the money on time, the recipient doesn’t get it on time.
So, if he’s his own employer, he’s not sending the money on time for her to be getting her check on time. It doesn’t matter if he’s sending it directly to her or to CS, either way he’s not sending it on time.
[/QUOTE]
She can take legal action if he’s not paying her, and ultimately he’d wind up in jail if he was really blowing her off. I’m not sure what she can do if he’s only a few days late. Probably nothing. Exactly like what I can do to my tenant if he’s 3 days late on his rent. Sure, you can bitch about it and scream about it and fuck up whatever cordial relationship you might have with the person, or you can be flexible if you know (despite your irritation) that you will get the money within a few days. I don’t see what other choice anyone has here, reasonably speaking.
[QUOTE=Not a Well Woman]
My grandchild was thoroughly planned and he did not come along until they were married for a year. I know we are a very strange family, but there you have it.
[/QUOTE]
I’m glad that you’re referring to your grandchild as your grandchild. I hope you see him on a regular basis and treat him just as you would had your son and his wife stayed married.