[QUOTE=Zoe]
Let them know that you will never disappear from their lives and mean it!
[/QUOTE]
While lots of Dopers are better qualified to give advice, this is one thing I would absolutely second. Please mean it! I had promises given to me by a parent who then disappeared from my life.
Love your kids well, though I see no danger of you not doing that. My best wishes and good luck.
[QUOTE=kittenblue]
Well, I’m in a mood tonight, so I’m going to say…tell her if she wants out, she can go. You and the boys are staying in the house (if you can afford to) and she can have visitation…liberal visitation. And she should be the one to tell the kids that she is moving out, and then she should go. A separation may clarify things for her.
[/QUOTE]
I wish I had got this advice and followed it. Things would have been more civilized if I had been in that kind of position rather than my ex-wife. I thought I was doing the right thing by making everything easy for her and the kids but I was just fucking up my future relationships with my children.
[QUOTE=Foxy40]
I feel very bad for you and I am sorry.
I see all this advice to OMG GET A LAWYER. Before you do that, I think you need to sit down with your wife, suggest marriage counseling, see if your relationship can be saved. If not, find out what she wants as far as custody, support, assets etc.
The problem is that it seems everyone knows a horror story where the man or the woman gets totally screwed by the other. I personally can not see how you can love someone for so long and then be so intent on hurting them. It happens though, sadly.
I am going through my second divorce. I suck at marriage but I am great at divorce. I loved these men and at one time wanted to spend the rest of my life with them. My first had an affair and my second has some mental illnesses that can’t seem to be overcome so he can function in a “normal” relationship. I would do anything for either of them and me know they would do the same for me. It doesn’t have to be ugly but both parties have to agree that they love and respect one another and can put that in the front of any hard feelings or pettiness.
That being said, I personally don’t believe children should be in the “custody” of one parent or the other. A child needs both parents and both parents need the love of the child. My first husband and I jointly raised our son. My soon to be second ex husband and I are raising our daughter together. We live close to one another and she has a room and things in both places. We don’t have a strict schedule. Basically, he and I work it out weekly or daily whatever the case might be and whatever her needs happen to be. She knows someone will get her from school and take her “home” and care for her. She is very well adjusted and has had no problem with her parents splitting up because there was never any ugliness involved. Recently we contemplated giving it another try but that didn’t work out. However, we will continue to be friendly enough to have dinner a couple of times per month either with the kid or not. We will still share a movie every once in a while. Other potential relationships in our lives are honestly told that although the romantic part of the husband/wife relationship didn’t work out, we are in each other’s lives and will be for quite a long time. It takes a strong person to accept that and maybe no one will but this little person has to be our main concern and selfishly fighting over how many forks each one gets out of the divorce won’t help that one bit.
I really hope you two can work it out for your children if possible but if you find it really isn’t possible; an attorney is a necessary evil but if you two can be fair and communicate while remembering that you love each other on some level, everyone will get through this with fewer scars. This isn’t the time to start acting like strangers.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the positive story.
She has never asked me to leave but somebody will have to go if we split up. I assume the Dad usually gets screwed with regard to leaving.
She is very distant. She pulls away from physical contact. She shows no interest in my life. What gets me most is the way she lights up around her friends.
She would say that my affections are forced, that I am manipulating, that I have done or said hurtful things to her. I can’t deny any of these but I can say that I have changed since we have been married.
Thanks. This is helping me get ready for whatever comes next.
[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex]
My response to PaulEdwardWagemann.
My first of 5 responses to Belrix.
My response to Belrix’s continuing saga.
My response to Cazzle.
The first of many responses toDuffer, DudleyGarret and BMalion.
My response to spooje.
Rather than rewriting a ton of stuff, you may find some similar things in these threads that are similar to your situation, and most of my advice for them is still applicable to you. You will also see that there is a group of us Dopers who love to jump into marriage/divorce threads; me included. Everyone here is mostly going by their own experiences as (1) a divorced child, (2) a divorced parent, (3) a parent who saved their marriage or (4) a child of a saved marriage. I personally can lay claim to both (1) & (3). My following response is usually in the minority of doper responses, but nonetheless…a valid response.
I do advocate contacting a lawyer for advice before (read: if) SHE actually goes through with the divorce, and it’s not your job to do it for her. Your job is to improve on yourself, regardless of what she does. I pretty much spell it out in my links to the threads listed above. If you really want to save the marriage, you can increase the chances by improving on yourself and your habits. You can always change yourself, but you can’t change her…but she might change herself if she responds positively to your changes. Regardless, she will notice your changes, and may reconnect with you, or maybe she wont. At least your kids will notice and that may be even more important in further strengthening your relationship with them throughout these tough times.
I would hate to see you guys divorce unless you explore all alternatives…including improving on yourself…the links above will explain it further.
Another bit of advice:
Do Not Be Aggressive.
Do Not Be Passive.
Do Be Assertive.
[/QUOTE]
This is great advice and it is the most important thing I have learned in this whole process.
Thanks again everyone.
It’s hard for me describe the deep problems in this relationship in words. So much had gone on. Again, I don’t want to blame anyone. We both have intimacy issues. I am definitely keeping my chin up.
My first preference is to stay with my wife. I still have hope. This process has allowed us at least to be honest with each other.
I also need to prepare myself for other eventualities.
I cannot bring myself to see a lawyer until she at least starts to tell people about our situation.
[QUOTE=Chimera]
…(I went through a painful 9 month long divorce from a paranoid sociopath. Trust me, I know how bad things can get. I’m just lucky we didn’t have children, or I’d have been forced to fight for them.)
[/QUOTE]
Took me almost 2 years.
Oh, by the way, I’d like to be the first to mention that you should talk to a lawyer.
[QUOTE=Chimera]
…(I went through a painful 9 month long divorce from a paranoid sociopath. Trust me, I know how bad things can get. I’m just lucky we didn’t have children, or I’d have been forced to fight for them.)
[/QUOTE]
Took me almost 2 years.
Oh, by the way, I’d like to be the first to mention that you should talk to a lawyer.
on edit I see this:
This is so wrong. I understand that it’s a big step. But an adult sees whem it’s time to act and do the hard thing for the greater good, a child tries to ignore a problem and hope it goes away, don’t be a child.
[QUOTE=solkoe]
I cannot bring myself to see a lawyer until she at least starts to tell people about our situation.
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, but that’s just ridiculous. Nobody here has suggested that you see a lawyer so that you can start divorce proceedings before your wife does. No, the point is that you need to consult an attorney in your jurisdiction so that you can be informed of your legal rights and responsibilities if she continues to pursue divorce over reconciliation. You need to be armed with facts, not feelings.
Find out what you should do if she comes up to you tomorrow and says, “I want a divorce and I want you out of the house by [x date].” How does your compliance or non-compliance affect your legal standing with regard to your assets, custody, etc.?
If she elects to leave the marriage and takes the children with her (as one poster above said she did), what will be your recourse to physically getting your children back in their home? Do you really think it’s wise to wait until she’s absconded with your children before you even start looking for a lawyer, scheduling an appointment and sitting down for a meeting? For all the time that could take, you could be losing legal ground every single day for all you know!
Don’t be foolish! Protect yourself with information. And if you’re able to reconcile, all you’ve done is educate yourself, and there’s nothing wrong with that!
I wish you the very best of luck. I can’t imagine how much this must suck. But dammit, don’t get blindsided and then shut out of your kids’ life like my sister has done to her husband. Stop thinking of yourself and your sadness, or your wife and what she may or may not tell her friends and family, and start thinking about your children and what will be best for them!
Argh! You’re making me want to shake you, man! Just take the good advice you’ve been given!
My recommendation would be to go through with the divorce. I have not read anything that indicates that you want to spend the rest of your life with Mrs. Solkoe. What I have read is that you want to be “married”. A marriage does not exist on it’s own. It’s just a legal wrapper around a relationship. Being married doesn’t magically make two people want to stay together forever.
So why not find someone that you do want to spend the rest of your life with? In a good relationship, both people want to be in the relationship.
But in the meantime, do not let her walk all over you. Go back to the bedroom and let her find another place to sleep if she doesn’t like it. Do not give up the house and do not take on the responsibility of explaining this to the kids. Don’t let her take the easy way out.
I know you don’t want a divorce. I know you want what is best for your boys. But how long do you plan to sleep in the basement? Is this being fair to you?
She wants out of the marriage but you have to sleep in the basement?
Anyone else see something very wrong here?
Good luck to you. Listen to your fellow Dopers. You need a lawyer. Now.
Look out for #1 but be fair and kind. That does not mean “be a doormat”. Get a lawyer and get advised as to your rights.
Good luck!
[QUOTE=Orual]
Get a lawyer.
[/QUOTE]
Seconded. A damn good one. She made her intent clear, now it’s time to start treating her like the proverbial enemy. If you don’t she will take you for everything and you will be left with the bills.
DO NOT let her leave the house with your children (she will try). If she does, file kidnapping charges.
She wants out I agree with the above. Let her leave WITHOUT your boys.
If you let her leave with your children, it will be close to impossible to get them back.
Did I mention that you should get a damn good lawyer?
I am very sorry that your marriage has come to this, and I feel for you from recent personal experience.
Also, from recent personal experience, you need to start building your defenses NOW to prevent a major financial and emotional disaster in you and your children’s future.
Best of luck.
[QUOTE=dmatsch]
…Also, from recent personal experience, you need to start building your defenses NOW to prevent a major financial and emotional disaster in you and your children’s future.
Best of luck.
[/QUOTE]
Good advice.
Unless your dream for the future includes sleeping on your buddy’s couch and taking the bus to work…
A post office box, a new cel phone, and a new bank account (in a different bank) with direct deposit of your paycheck are a good way to start.
All this, of course, has already been told to you by your lawyer, I imagine.
May I share my recent experience? This isn’t advice, cuz the only license I have is a driver’s license, but today I had my second visit with a psychologist. During the first visit she listened to some of my marital woes and gave me a homework assignment: go interview 2 lawyers. I used those appointments to answer my biggest general questions about division of finances and property. Today’s visit included discussing housing and some other post-divorce considerations, and afterward I began looking at numbers on paper. One income kind of numbers. Worst case numbers. Our children are not as young as yours, but they are still a big factor in my decision making.
You should visit with a lawyer (I’m trying to nudge gently), but if you won’t, at least go back to one of your counselors alone and talk about your situation. This is not the time to be running on emotion.
And wasn’t there a recent thread about couples who sleep in separate rooms? There were some perfectly valid reasons for doing so, if I remember correctly, This is a different situation, to be sure, but separate rooms, isn’t (aren’t?) necessarily a bad thing.
As long as I’m rambling on here, there were also recent threads about the families we grew up in, and I remember some posters saying they wished their parents had divorced sooner than they did.
Oh man, please get a good lawyer and listen to them. I won’t relate the story of my fiance and his harridan of an ex, but I will say that my mom got divorced when I was 12 and married my stepfather when I was about 15. He’s more of a father to me than bio dad ever could have been, and their relationship showed me what a happy marriage looks like.
You owe it to yourself and your kids. And her, I suppose.
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady]
But how long do you plan to sleep in the basement?
[/QUOTE]
Had a client who did that for 18 years. Cheap son of a bitch.
[QUOTE=Muffin]
Had a client who did that for 18 years. Cheap son of a bitch.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe he was just following the Oliver Rose school of thought with regard to divorce. I hope he didn’t end up hanging from a chandelier
Back to the o.p., who is probably trying to make sense of this whole business: give up. There is no making sense. To quote from *War of the Roses**Oliver: I think you owe me a solid reason. I worked my ass off for you and the kids to have a nice life and you owe me a reason that makes sense. I want to hear it.
Barbara: Because. When I watch you eat. When I see you asleep. When I look at you lately, I just want to smash your face in.*That’s all the sense it’s gonna make. Sorry, but true. From now on, you have to treat your marriage as a dissolving business proposition that involves the financial and emotional well-being of your children.
Stranger
At the first mention of divorce, I would have a lawyer, file the divorce, have it done and over with so fast it would the make the other’s head spin.
Playing with people is cruel - if that what she has decided (and she obviously did when she initiated it, at least it seemed clear to me), then get it over with. Don’t drag it through the mud with the “he said” “she said” and the kids watching the whole thing. Yes, you think you’re both being discreet and cool about the whole thing…the kids know, they have questions, they have insecurities. The longer this goes on, the more cruel and vicious it’s going to be.
Oh, AND SEE A LAWYER. And stop sleeping in the basement. She wants out - give her notice that she’s to get an apartment / house / another place to live and to be out in two weeks.
As far as I’m concerned, if someone wants out, they should get out.
For heaven’s sake - stand up for yourself. She’s not going to be nice and you’ll probably have moments too. But DO SOMETHING! Don’t just follow along.